"I Believe" Does That Mean I'm Saved?

[JLB]

I'm pretty sure your list of requirements is quite entirely too extensive for anyone to perform by the time the total analysis comes into play. I've hung around the faith long enough to run into more than one person who thinks they are the only one who is sufficiently performing by all their rules. I really don't have time for such deceptions. For me such people are just dancing circles in their own minds.

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

I landed in the same sight as Paul, above. If anything I'll pound home the same point just to remind myself that I'm not Jesus.

Yes brother, Christ came into the world to save sinners.

How many Christians did you have murdered in the name of Judaism?



JLB

 

[WIP]

Romans 8:
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I'll add my own synopsis: Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ. Nothing.

This is true for Christ even loves the lost but does that mean the lost are saved?

 

[JLB]

I'm pretty sure your list of requirements is quite entirely too extensive for anyone to perform by the time the total analysis comes into play. I've hung around the faith long enough to run into more than one person who thinks they are the only one who is sufficiently performing by all their rules.

• It's about keeping yourself un-spotted from the world, which I had to learn the hard way. James 1:27
• It's about not presenting yourself as a slave to sin, which I had to learn the hard way. Romans 6:13
• It's about setting your mind on things above, which I had to learn the hard way. Romans 8:5
• It's about exercising godliness, which I had to learn the hard way. 1 Timothy 4:7
• It's about repenting from being "friends" with the world, which I had to learn the hard way. James 4:4
• It's about "not ignoring" what the scriptures say about these things, which I had to learn the hard way. 2 Timothy 3:16

Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4


JLB

 

[smaller]

This is true for Christ even loves the lost but does that mean the lost are saved?

The discussion is about believers from what I recall. Yes, it is entirely possible for believers to be again blinded by the god of this world in this present life. That does not equate to loss of salvation, unless we want to say Jesus left them, and be in conflict with scripture that says that doesn't happen.

Hebrews 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[smaller]

• It's about keeping yourself un-spotted from the world, which I had to learn the hard way. James 1:27
• It's about not presenting yourself as a slave to sin, which I had to learn the hard way. Romans 6:13
• It's about setting your mind on things above, which I had to learn the hard way. Romans 8:5
• It's about exercising godliness, which I had to learn the hard way. 1 Timothy 4:7
• It's about repenting from being "friends" with the world, which I had to learn the hard way. James 4:4
• It's about "not ignoring" what the scriptures say about these things, which I had to learn the hard way. 2 Timothy 3:16

Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4

JLB

Yes, I am familar with your list of performance requirements to save yourself, which I generally reject when those performances are extracted by threats and fears.

"keeping" "presenting" "setting" "exercising" "repenting" "not ignoring" is all done in some people's minds solely of themselves, which again, I reject.

No believer does a single thing on either side of the ledgers without God in Christ being and remaining IN THEM and that is inclusive of being in the state of "believe not."

2 Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

I don't adhere to the "rotating Christ." Now He's In, Now He's Out. That whole picture is out to lunch.

 

[JLB]

Yes, I am familar with your list of performance requirements to save yourself, which I generally reject when those performances are extracted by threats and fears.

Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4

If you feel threatened by God's word, then you should take heed to what the scriptures teach, by examining yourself to see if you are in the faith.

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Corinthians 13:5


JLB

 

[JLB]

"keeping" "presenting" "setting" "exercising" "repenting" "not ignoring" is all done in some people's minds solely of themselves, which again, I reject.

Then you reject God's word.

• Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction,and to keep himself unspotted from the world. James 1:27

• It's about keeping yourself un-spotted from the world, which I had to learn the hard way. James 1:27

• It's about not presenting yourself as a slave to sin, which I had to learn the hard way. Romans 6:13

• It's about setting your mind on things above, which I had to learn the hard way. Romans 8:5

• It's about exercising godliness, which I had to learn the hard way. 1 Timothy 4:7

• It's about repenting from being "friends" with the world, which I had to learn the hard way. James 4:4

• It's about "not ignoring" what the scriptures say about these things, which I had to learn the hard way. 2 Timothy 3:16

All of these scriptures teach us what to do, and are sound doctrine.


Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. 1 Timothy 4:16



JLB

 

[smaller]

Then you reject God's word.

I reject how some see it, certainly.

Many sects/adherents treat the N.T. precepts as if they are laws with condemnation attached.

They aren't.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life

The above is where understanding starts. And of course many mar the scriptures exceedingly when in violation of the above precept.

 

[FreeGrace]

Please review forum guidelines. WIP

 

[FreeGrace]

Please review the forum guidelines. WIP

 

[JLB]

This is absolutely untrue. It refers to fellowship, not relationship.

You can "redefine" words, and biblical phrases all you want, it doesn't change the outcome.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


These people were "in Him", then later they were cast into the fire and burned.

Cast into the fire and burned is the outcome of those who do not remain connected "in Him".

OSAS -



JLB

 

[JLB]

This verse sure doesn't support your claim. It's simply a statement about those who have believed and the result of having believed - the salvation of their souls.

Where is the word "continuing" here? It's not here. Refuting your theory.

Peter teaches we receive the salvation of our souls at the end of our faith, not the beginning.

If you have already received something, then you no longer have faith for that something, but have received the reality of what you had faith for.

As long as we still have faith for Salvation, then we are hoping for salvation that will be obtained when Jesus comes.

as it is written, those who believe to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Every believer who sins is deceived and we are all sinners regardless of any measures applied. Unbelief is also a sin. And yes, it is perpetrated by principalities that are NOT the believer. So, given a choice which direction will you look for judgments? On the fallen believer or on the principality(s) involved?

I think that answer is obvious.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

This is a one time event that brings an instant change in eternal status, that Jesus brings about, not the person. It was never left in the hands of the person to begin with. Such things are not left to chance, in the hands of children, but remain in the Domain of God in Christ regardless.

He Honors His Own Words and Promises regardless of the persons.

Hi Smaller,
I agree with your first pp but what does your question mean? Principalities are the powers in the air, "we fight not against flesh and blood (real people) but against principalities (spirits, evil). Ephesiand 6:12 :

" For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."

So, yes, it's understood that principalities is not referring to the believer. So what EXACTLY is my choice?
The fallen believer or the principality is the choice you're giving me - what exactly is this choice?? It's not clear at all.

Then you quote John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

You state here a verse that works against eternal salvation. Exactly for the two words you have underlined.
It is indeed an important event that brings an instant change in salvation but one must persevere.

Let's stop for a moment and explain the words "hear" and "believe". John 5:24 says that he that BELIEVETH on Him that sent me: We know that the N.T. was written in Greek. So we have to understand what the word Believe means in Greek. Satan believes God and Jesus exist. So it must mean something different. Actually it means to believe with the mind, to believe with the heart, to accept a teaching, to agree with, to follow in a manner such as to want to emulate.

So if you BELIEVE you have everlasting life - what if you stop believing? If you shall NOT come under condemnation by BELIEVING, it necessarily follows that you WILL come under conemnation if you DON'T believe. If you don't believe it means you've stopped accepting, you've stopped agreeing with Him, you've stopped following Him, you've stopped emulating Him and you've stopped loving Him. Does that sound like a saved person to you?

Look at John 15:9
"ABIDE in my love!.

Jesus exhorts us to abide in His love. Abide - dictionary meaning: Continue to stay, Dwell, Wait for; Endure, Accept and follow out; Remain faithful; Stay on.

Pick any one of those meanings. Any one means that we are to CONTINUE in his love. Continue, Wait, Endure, Follow, Stay on. Each one means that the opposite can also be true: NOT continue, not dwell, not endure, etc.

So if you Abide in His Love, He will love you - what if you don't abide? The answer seems clear to me.

And catch what Jesus says in Luke 9:62
"No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the Kingdom of God".

It's so clear that we're to continue in our faith. John 15:6 is extremely clear. If you do NOT abide in Jesus (abide was explained above) you will be cast into the fire. That doesn't sound like OSAS to me. It would be interesting to have your interpretation of that verse.

Wondering

 

[smaller]

You can "redefine" words, and biblical phrases all you want, it doesn't change the outcome.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

These people were "in Him", then later they were cast into the fire and burned.

Cast into the fire and burned is the outcome of those who do not remain connected "in Him".

JLB

It's all in the perspective of the person reading it JLB:

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[GodsGrace]

Apparently for some this means their relationship is based on either personally perform or be potentially burned alive forever. Is this the relationship you are referring to? You might think that's a relationship. I don't.


Meaning what? That I must believe that the very God who saved me will possibly cast me aside forever based on my performances? I never had a performance satisfactory for eternal salvation to start with. Neither did anyone else. That is the entire point of having an actual Savior. A Savior who Saves.

So it might seem that we have different Saviors. One that does and one that might not. One who actually gets the job done and one that might not. This is kind of at the heart of the matters. Some will find a Savior who saves, and some find a Savior who might save. I'm in the Savior who saves camp. The Savior who can't get the job done and relies on me instead probably isn't all that much of a Savior in my eyes to begin with.


What fruit might you be speaking of? That fruit that claims the Savior can't get the job done? That kind of Savior? The Savior who's work and fruit wasn't sufficient? That kind of Savior? I really have no interest in being my own Savior quite frankly.



I tend not to insulate or isolate myself from any Word of God. All His Words are meant for life. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. Another person can read those same Words and find maybe life, maybe not. It's really just in the reflections that we have inside that make all the differences in the world.

How you and I understand these matters will revolve entirely around the fact that we really do have entirely different sights of God in Christ. One of us sees God in Christ as totally sufficient for the task, and one of us who doesn't.

When it comes to judgments, scriptures have provided a more than adequate basis to find ourselves insufficient to be our own Savior.

I wasn't called to be my own Savior. My bad.

Why does all this have anything to do with works??
Persons who believe in eternal salvation may think that those of us who believe it's possible to lose salvation may be trusting in works - but this is simply not so. Just like you were saved BY FAITH, you could lose salvation by losing faith (which has nothing to do with doubt).


You mentioned circular reasoning in a post to me. How's this for circular reasoning:

Mathew 15:20
For Whoever does the will of my father in heaven is my brother.

Okay. What is the will of the Father?
John 6:40
The will of the Father is to believe in Jesus.

What does it mean to Believe in Jesus?
It means to do the will of the Father.

THIS is circular reasoning! Doing the WILL of the Father is to abide in the Lord, or believing in the Lord is to abide in the Father.

Wondering
P.S. In many of your posts you keep repeating that Jesus doesn't leave us. Can I repeat again, that HE doesn't leave US, it's US who leave HIM. Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us Hebrews 13:5, however, we could decide to leave and forsake Him. It's our own free choice of our own free will. As we like to say, we're not robots. Our free will remains in tact till the end of our days.

 

[smaller]

Please review the forum guidelines. WIP

 

[smaller]

P.S. In many of your posts you keep repeating that Jesus doesn't leave us. Can I repeat again, that HE doesn't leave US, it's US who leave HIM.

And that is a great example of circular logic that doesn't make a LICK of sense. IF Jesus never leaves us THEN He never leaves us and that's all there is to the matter. How can we leave Him if He never leaves us? Edited personal remark.

 

[GodsGrace]

Removed post as it now references a deleted post. WIP

 

[smaller]

Personal and demeaning post. Please review ToS 2.4. Also references a deleted post. WIP

 

[JLB]

It's all in the perspective of the person reading it JLB:

No that would "Relativism", which is a modern day Heresy, whereby Truth is redefined and "re-manufactured", and is based on the person's perspective, or culture or circumstances.

Example:

32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Matthew 18:32-35


This is a command from Jesus Christ, and is literal Truth, that is to actually be obeyed.

This is from the Bible, just like the rest of the scriptures I quoted to you, that shows and teaches, that we are to obey what is said.

• Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction,and to keep himself unspotted from the world. James 1:27

• It's about keeping yourself un-spotted from the world, which I had to learn the hard way. James 1:27

• It's about not presenting yourself as a slave to sin, which I had to learn the hard way. Romans 6:13

• It's about setting your mind on things above, which I had to learn the hard way. Romans 8:5

• It's about exercising godliness, which I had to learn the hard way. 1 Timothy 4:7

• It's about repenting from being "friends" with the world, which I had to learn the hard way. James 4:4

• It's about "not ignoring" what the scriptures say about these things, which I had to learn the hard way. 2 Timothy 3:16

All of these scriptures teach us what to do, and are sound doctrine.


Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you. 1 Timothy 4:16


Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

...for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.



JLB