I have decided...

[gingercat]

After searching around for 7 years, I have decided to join JW.

I have been told by many churches that they are a cult, so I was never serious about them. But because I have witnessed and experienced so much hypocrisy in the main stream churches, God opened my eyes for the JW.

The more I learn about them the more I give them respect for their thorough servanthood for the Lord.

They don't accept new membership until seekers understand what it takes to follow Jesus!!! So most of their members are wholehearted Christians and they are equipped to be disciples.

Praise the Lord for Jehovah's Witnesses :angel: :angel: :angel:

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

Right action without right teaching... oh well. I suppose that appeals to some.

 

[gingercat]

Right action without right teaching... oh well. I suppose that appeals to some.

You guys have been telling me not to judge. :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

sorry. now, by 'you guys' do you mean the Catholics, or everyone in general?

 

[gingercat]

sorry. now, by 'you guys' do you mean the Catholics, or everyone in general?

Just about everyone both Catholics and Protestants because I have negative opinions about most of the main stream churches.

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

ah. well, the only protestants i regard to have any authority are the moderators, and then only in forum ettiquette. so what they state, i dont necessarily subscribe to. a little leery on the Catholics, cause there are a lot of cafeteria catholics out there. so, i dont judge you as a person. but i judge your chosen religion as false. as a person, we got no beef. kinda like loving the sinner and hating the sin (to put it in perspective of where Im coming from)

 

[gingercat]

ah. well, the only protestants i regard to have any authority are the moderators, and then only in forum ettiquette. so what they state, i dont necessarily subscribe to. a little leery on the Catholics, cause there are a lot of cafeteria catholics out there. so, i dont judge you as a person. but i judge your chosen religion as false. as a person, we got no beef. kinda like loving the sinner and hating the sin (to put it in perspective of where Im coming from)

No matter how you say it, it does not make any diffence. What you are doing is judging. All you are doing is making excuses for what you are doing.

It seems that you are implying we should know how to judge. As long as we know how to judge we are not judging. :roll:

 

[destiny]

I have negative opinions about most of the main stream churches.

But you lump all churched christians into the same catagory as being deceived, you can't do that and claim to be judging with righteous judgment.
Righteous judgment is based on what you know as fact.
When you unrighteously judge you are setting yourself up to be led astray, because the word says "it will be measured back to you".
Think about it, and think about your newly chosen religion.

 

[Johny]

Lord Jesus, I pray to you so that you will show gingercat the truth about the JW religion. You yourself know she is heading down a dangerous path, guide her back to you. I ask this in your holy and precious name. Amen.

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

the bible speaks of judgeing in the context of not judging your neighbor.

13: Judge for yourselves; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 1 Cor 11

24: Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment." John 7

Perhaps I should draw a distinction between passing judgement and judgeing (discernment).

 

[gingercat]

I have negative opinions about most of the main stream churches.

But you lump all churched christians into the same catagory as being deceived, you can't do that and claim to be judging with righteous judgment.

That's for me to discern. If you don't like it, that's just tough.

 

[ChristineES]

I have negative opinions about most of the main stream churches.

But you lump all churched christians into the same catagory as being deceived, you can't do that and claim to be judging with righteous judgment.

That's for me to discern. If you don't like it, that's just tough.

The problem with asking people's opinions is that you are going to get them, even if they don't agree with you. Announcing that you want to join a denomination that most people believe is a cult is just asking for people to respond to it. If you didn't want people to respond, then you should have kept it to yourself. I learned a long time ago, that you can't please everyone, so please yourself and God.

 

[gingercat]

I have negative opinions about most of the main stream churches.

But you lump all churched christians into the same catagory as being deceived, you can't do that and claim to be judging with righteous judgment.

That's for me to discern. If you don't like it, that's just tough.

The problem with asking people's opinions is that you are going to get them, even if they don't agree with you. Announcing that you want to join a denomination that most people believe is a cult is just asking for people to respond to it. If you didn't want people to respond, then you should have kept it to yourself. I learned a long time ago, that you can't please everyone, so please yourself and God.

Yes christine, you are absolutely right! But why do they tell everyone else not to judge when they don't like other people's opinions? That is the point I am trying to make. :D

 

[Sothenes]

They don't accept new membership until seekers understand what it takes to follow Jesus!!! So most of their members are wholehearted Christians and they are equipped to be disciples.

I worked with about three Jehovah's Witnesses at work. Now there are only two employed where I work. I've always been respectful to them, Gingercat and evidence of a respectful debate I had with them can be found online.

Did you know that Charles Taze Russell was into pyramidology?
He was the leader of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Make sure you show the pictures to your friends.

http://www.jwfiles.com/pyramid.htm

Information on the grave of Charles Taze Russell:

http://www.freeminds.org/history/cemetary.htm

“Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspoted from the world.â€Â-James 1:27

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?â€Â-James 2:16

When I was 12, a Christian brought food to our house but the Jehovah's Witnesses just came and stuck tracts in our faces. The Jehovah's Witnesses add insult to injury by saying "Faith without works is dead" and say that they are working by going door to door but James links 'faith without works' to ignoring your brother who is destitute of daily food and clothing. James says that what the Jehovah Witness is doing is "without profit" so to me and many other people it is worthless. Should they decide to open themselves up to the community, they would also have to address those issues instead of hiding because they are afraid to look at their own Watchtower errors.

Starting that work now wouldn't sit well with those adult Jehovah's Witnesses going for their GED (General Equivelency Diploma) because they can't get work because they don't have a high school diploma. They aren't doing enough to help their own because the reason they don't want their children going to college is because they might think for themselves and leave the Watchtower so they are going to make their children dependent on their parents and keep them at home. Helping other people while their own children are in need isn't going to sit well with them in certain economic communities.

 

[Sothenes]

Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that humans cease to exist when they die, that "resurrection" means to be recreated from Jehovah's memory. They are taught to deny the doctrine of the Trinity and the deity of Christ. Jehovah's Witnesses are also taught that Jesus was not raised physically from the dead, but was raised as a spirit creature.

It could take many hours to help a Jehovah's Witness understand the errors he's been taught by the Watchtower, to help him understand that the Bible really does teach that Jesus is and always has been God, that he did not cease to exist when he died, and that he was raised immortal in the same physical body that had died on the cross. Next time, use this one passage to show all three teachings at once.

John 2:18-21 contains a conversation Jesus had with Jews in front of the Jerusalem temple during his ministry. In this passage, John quotes Jesus, notes the response of those he is speaking to, explains what Jesus meant by what he said, and explains how his disciples came understand what he meant.

The passage reads this way:

Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?" Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" But the temple he had spoken of was his body. After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

Let's look at the passage step by step. First, the basic meaning of the passage is that the skeptical Jews were asking Jesus to prove that he was the Messiah. He replied that although his body would die, he would raise himself from death to immortality to prove to them that he was the Messiah.

Jesus is claiming that after his death he will still have conscious existence - he must exist and have consciousness in order to raise himself. If Jesus continues to have conscious existence after the death of his body, then death must not mean that one ceases to exist. In fact, as we know well from many other passages, the dead are conscious and face the judgment of God, either of salvation through faith in Christ, or of condemnation by rejecting Christ. Matthew 25:46 promises, "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to life eternal."

Jesus is also claiming (and John is affirming) that his resurrection would be bodily - in fact, the same body that was crucified on the cross. Jesus said, "Destroy this temple and I will raise it again." John defines "this temple" as his body. Therefore, Jesus is declaring and John is affirming that Jesus was resurrected in a human body, the same body in which he lived and died. In fact, as we know from many other passages, Jesus's resurrection is a bodily resurrection, not a "spirit" resurrection. Luke 24:39 quotes the resurrected Jesus assuring his disciples, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost [spirit] does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

Finally, Jesus is also claiming to be God Almighty by claiming that he will raise himself from the dead. Although sometimes prophets were used by God to resuscitate people who have died, and Jesus raised others during his ministry, the power to resurrect someone from the dead never to die again, belongs to God alone. The Bible clearly declares that it is God who raised Jesus from the dead (see, for example, Acts 2:22, 24, 32, 36; Acts 3:13-15; Romans 10:9). In John 10, Jesus explains how it is possible for him to die and yet raise himself from the dead: as God he has the power to raise himself from the dead. He declares, "The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life - only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again" (John 10:17-18). (When we say that Jesus is God, we mean that he is the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity. For information on the doctrine of the Trinity, see my debate, "Is the Creedal Doctrine of the Trinity Biblical?")

If you study John 2:18-21 in its context and understand exactly what Jesus and John mean by what is said in the passage, you can have an effective "multi-purpose tool" for sharing with your Jehovah's Witness friends the truth about life after death, the deity of Christ, and Christ's bodily resurrection. Remember to wait patiently for your friend to answer "What would he do?" if you could show all three teachings from one passage. When eternal life is on the line, one should be willing to follow Scripture no matter where it leads - even if it leads to renouncing what the Watchtower has taught and clinging to what Jesus declares in God's Word.

used by permission from:
http://www.answers.org/bible/john2_19_21.html

 

[Sothenes]

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES BELIEVE & TEACH

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES BELIEVE & TEACH

THAT Jesus Christ (who is Michael the Archangel in their doctrine ) (WT 2/1/91 p.17) is mediator for only a small, elite, group within their ranks called the "anointed remnant". Others must come to this group who control the organization and earn their salvation by absolute obedience to it. (WT 04/01/79).

THAT all religions except their's are of Satan, and your Pastor or Priest is under the Devil's control. (Truth..E. Life p. 132-137)

THAT the Watchtower Society is the only source of truth on earth today, and all churches teach error and will be destroyed at Armageddon. (WT 04/01/88 p.24; Truth.. p.120,121).

THAT the cross is a pagan symbol of sex worship, and that all buildings or persons displaying the cross are likewise pagan. Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus died on the cross. However, the Watchtower Magazine now admits they are not certain about the cross, but will continue to deny it anyway. (WT 8/15/87 p.29 Aid.. p.1608,9).

THAT no one goes to heaven but 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses, and your soul will be destroyed if you refuse to join their organization. (WT 12/15/68 p.765-766; Truth...p.75-80).

THAT the Christ child was only an "IT", not a "HE". See the New World Translation, Luke 2:16,17. *

THAT Jesus was not the Christ (or Messiah) until age 30, even though their own bible says in Luke 2:11, "because there was born to you today a Savior, who is Christ the Lord." (Things in Which it is Impossible for God to Lie p. 211)

THAT after Jesus was buried in the tomb, Jehovah dissolved his body into gasses and it disappeared forever. (WT 09/01/53 p. 518; Time...Hand p. 129).

THAT Jesus rose invisibly in three days, so Jehovah had to "materialize" a fake body for him complete with fake nail prints so His disciples would believe it was really Jesus risen. (Make Sure..(52 ed.) p. 314)

THAT Armageddon and Christ's second coming were foretold to happen in 1874, 1914, 1925 and 1975 by this "nonprophet"organization. (WT10/1/1890p.1243;1/1892p.1354; Life Everl. (66 ed. p.29)

THAT when Christ failed to show up in 1914 The Society claimed in later years that He had come -- invisibly -- of course, and all Jehovah's Witnesses believe this today. (Light (30 ed). p. 194; Paradise on Earth..p.148)

THAT Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob etc. were to be back on earth as perfect humans in 1925. The Society built a palatial home for them BUT when the patriarchs failed to show up, the President of the Society moved in. (Millions..(20 ed) p. 89-90; WT 03/15/37 p. 86).

THAT their light gets "brighter and brighter", allowing for the many changes and "about faces" on their doctrines. Yesterday's error is today's "truth". Often the "light" bounces back and forth from old to new views and back again! Does real light return to darkness? (1 example Sodom: WT 06/01/52 p. 336; 08/01/65 p. 479; Rev..Climax..(88 ed) p. 273).

THAT the Watchtower Society and its followers are all prophets of God today and the Governing Body is directed by angels from God. (WT 01/15/59 p. 40-41; WT 4/1/72 p.200.

THAT salvation for Society members consists of doing the good works of placing Watchtower books and magazines and winning converts. (WT 08/15/72; Make Sure (65 ed) p. 438-9).

THAT soon Jehovah God will become a GRANDFATHER and Jesus will be promoted to "EVERLASTING FATHER"! (WT 08/01/95 p. 13).

THAT Jehovah God is not omnipresent, but still Almighty. Think! How can this be?(Light II (30 ed) p. 184).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


They have not been told --

By the leadership of the Society



THAT when they translated their New World Translation of the Bible they deliberately altered almost every scripture on the deity of Christ, to make him only a creature.(Phil. 2:9; Heb. 1:8; Col. 1:16,17; Rev. 1:8; John 1: 1,2; Col. 2:9, John 8:58, 10:33 etc.).

THAT the Society used a translation by a SPIRIT MEDIUM, Johannes Greber, to support their rendering of John 1:1 with full knowledge that his sources were DEMONIC. Greber was exposed in the Feb. 15/56 W.T. However in 1961 they released a translation based on his occult one, then denied they knew what they were doing on page 31 of the Apr. 1, 1983 Watchtower!

THAT none of their "translating committee" knew Biblical Greek or Hebrew. No scholars at all. (Eyewitnesses & refusal to name translating committee),

THAT Fred Franz, who for many years headed the Society, perjured himself under oath in Scotland in a court trial, by saying he could read Hebrew, and then failing a simple Hebrew test. (Pursuer's Proof of Cross Exam. Nov. 24/54 p. 7 and p. 102).

THAT the following encyclopedias consider the name "JEHOVAH" to be FALSE Merits Student Enc.; Encyclopedia Americana; The Jewish Enc.; Encyclopedia International, The Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible; The New Catholic Enc.; The Universal Jewish Enc., etc. J.W.'s own "Aid" book admits on pages 884 & 885 that "Jehovah" was first recorded by a Catholic monk about 700 years ago!

THAT the date 1874 was taught for Christ's invisible presence by the Society until l929. (See their book, "Prophecy", page 65. sold until 1941. Also WT. Jan 1, 1924, p. 5).

THAT top executives of the Society have admitted under oath that they forced their members to accept false prophecies or face disfellowshipping and be found worthy of death. (Test. of F. Franz, 1954, p. 112-114 Scottish Records Office).

THAT the Watchtower Society was an associated member of the United Nations for many years, giving them their support, while at the same time calling the UN the "Scarlet-colored wild beast", the "disgusting thing", the "eighth king", linking the UN with Gog of Magog (Satan). When found out they quit the UN, but have also stopped badmouthing the UN, failing to mention them in the 6/01/03 WT. (See http://www.John Ankerberg.org/ (JW'sNov.01 & Aug 03).

THAT the JW Organization is infested with pedophiles who know they can only be caught if two witnesses testify against them.(http://www.silentlambs.org).

THAT true salvation is FREE (Eph. 2: 8 & 9), and consists of receiving the true Christ as your Savior. (John 1:12 , John 6: 28, 29).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In Summary



We find the Watchtower Society practicing their belief that it is proper to deceive people. But they say this really isn't lying. Why? Because the Society has a different definition of lying than most of us. In their book "AID TO BIBLE UNDERSTANDING" under the word "LIE" we read

"Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is ENTITLED to know the truth....". "While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it".

Of course it is the Watchtower leaders that decide WHO deserves to know the truth. Do you deserve to know the truth? Write to us for further help.



MM Outreach

Box 454 Metaline Falls WA 99153

Box 294 Nelson B.C. V1L 5P9

http://www.macgregorministries.org

(used by online permission)

 

[gingercat]

Thank you sothens for your information. I certenly talk to them everything you gave me.

I am very aware of what the main stream churches are saying about them. The Bible tells us we know by our fruit if we are true followers of Jesus. I have been deligently seeking godly organizations but could not find any!!!

On the other hand, I haven't witnessed their hypocritical practices in their daily lives. They are reaching out to the lost souls daily!!! and they are not just a few of their members; most of them!!! I see many people making fun of their deligent devotion for the Lord by saying they are trying to earn salvation by works, that is so wrong!!!

Most of us can learn a lot from them!!!

 

[Sothenes]

Thank you sothens for your information. I certenly talk to them everything you gave me.

I am very aware of what the main stream churches are saying about them. The Bible tells us we know by our fruit if we are true followers of Jesus. I have been deligently seeking godly organizations but could not find any!!!

On the other hand, I haven't witnessed their hypocritical practices in their daily lives. They are reaching out to the lost souls daily!!! and they are not just a few of their members; most of them!!! I see many people making fun of their deligent devotion for the Lord by saying they are trying to earn salvation by works, that is so wrong!!!

Most of us can learn a lot from them!!!

The truth is that they are trained to be salesmen and not consumers. They won't look at the false prophecies, lies or errors of the Watchtower. I debated a Jehovah's Witness from England and he stopped talking to me because his books on how to convert me didn't work and he wasn't willing to look at the truth. So many of them put an "X" on my door and never return because they aren't allowed to question the Watchtower and you will soon become just like them.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth (down) in unrighteousness;

God will turn you over to what you wish you didn't have because men agape the darkness (John 3:19) and the Jehovah's Witnesses hold down the truth in unrighteousness because they aren't willing to discuss the Watchtower errors. I saw two elders come on a message board in the 1980's and they generated about 800 messages in about a month and we were only using 2400 bps at the time which made it really hard. The elders used a lot of quotes that misquoted people and put a spin on what a lot of people have said. It is a very dishonest organization that you are following.

 

[SputnikBoy]

You follow your own heart, gingercat, to be sure. I have a serious question, however, and I'd be most interested in the answer that you give. I do believe that you were studying - and were quite impressed with - the teachings of the SDA Church not too long ago. Was there any particular part or parts of their doctrines that disuaded you from joining them? This isn't a problem for me, by the way ...I'm just curious.

 

[Sothenes]

Thank you sothens for your information. I certenly talk to them everything you gave me.

In other words, you are going to them as the only source of your information. That is not objective because you are letting them do the thinking for you. Every time I get in trouble is when I let other people do the thinking for me. It usually starts with a salesmen trying to tell me at the store how much better they can pick out a product than I can. I know that if I let them, I will be unhappy. You are going to be like them which is not willing to look at any truth.