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I have decided...

Sothenes said:
gingercat said:
Thank you sothens for your information. I certenly talk to them everything you gave me.

I am very aware of what the main stream churches are saying about them. The Bible tells us we know by our fruit if we are true followers of Jesus. I have been deligently seeking godly organizations but could not find any!!!

On the other hand, I haven't witnessed their hypocritical practices in their daily lives. They are reaching out to the lost souls daily!!! and they are not just a few of their members; most of them!!! I see many people making fun of their deligent devotion for the Lord by saying they are trying to earn salvation by works, that is so wrong!!!

Most of us can learn a lot from them!!!

The truth is that they are trained to be salesmen and not consumers. They won't look at the false prophecies, lies or errors of the Watchtower. I debated a Jehovah's Witness from England and he stopped talking to me because his books on how to convert me didn't work and he wasn't willing to look at the truth. So many of them put an "X" on my door and never return because they aren't allowed to question the Watchtower and you will soon become just like them.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth (down) in unrighteousness;

God will turn you over to what you wish you didn't have because men agape the darkness (John 3:19) and the Jehovah's Witnesses hold down the truth in unrighteousness because they aren't willing to discuss the Watchtower errors. I saw two elders come on a message board in the 1980's and they generated about 800 messages in about a month and we were only using 2400 bps at the time which made it really hard. The elders used a lot of quotes that misquoted people and put a spin on what a lot of people have said. It is a very dishonest organization that you are following.

While I may or may not agree with you in regard to the JWs, sothenes, you need to bear in mind that gingercat has found in mainstream Christianity the very same things that you claim about the JWs. This is WHY she has chosen to affiliate herself with them. I do believe that there is NO denomination that has ALL of the truth so we need to be careful when we climb aboard our hobby horse and decry other denominations. Gingercat needs to experience the JWs herself. She may choose to remain or she may choose to leave but the decision to do either is hers and no one elses.
 
I'm quoting Hazard from www.Biblevoice.co.uk

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." "Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whos end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor. 11:14-15).

This is how it all began and this is the Man, and men, who's actions, and who's writings, upon which The Faith of the Jehovah's Witnesses is based upon.
["For every tree is known by his fruit . . . "] (Luke 6:44).

The Jehovah's Witnesses were founded by Charles Taze Russell, who had left formal education at the age eleven. Brought up as a Congregationalist, he joined the Seventh-day Adventists before coming under the influence of Jonas Wendel, who believed that the Second Coming would occur in 1874.

When nothing happened in that year, Russell claimed that Christ had indeed returned, but as an invisible presence. He first expounded this view in the booklet "The Object and Manner of the Lord's Return in 1873, claiming that he had known about Wendels mistake in advance.
He also said that believers would be "called away bodily" in 1878. When nothing occurred in that year either, he explained that he meant that believers would go directly to paradise from 1878 onwards, rather than waiting in the grave for the Second Coming like those who had been buried before that year.

Russell had already started publishing Zion's Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence in 1871. In 1881 he established the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, which is still the publisher of Watchtower and Awake, the two magazines that sold door to door by believers.

Over the next three decades Russell wrote six volumes of Studies in the Scriptures. Although he maintained the Bible was the fount of all truth, unassisted study was of no use, he said. Even if a student did not study the Bible at all, but instead only read "Studies in the Scriptures" which he wrote, they would still attain enlightenment within two years. The council of Trent, held in the year 1545 AD., declared that tradition is of equal authority with the Bible. By tradition is meant human teachings. Russell's books were purely "Human teachings." The Pharisees believed the same way, and Jesus bitterly condemned them, for by human traditions or teachings they nullified the commandments of God (Mark 7:7-13; Col. 2:8; Rev. 22:18).

Jehovah's Witnesses have conveniently forgotten some of Russell's other claims, however. In 1911, for example he sold "Miracle Wheat" through the pages of Watchtower at 60 times the price of ordinary wheat. He said that he had produced a similarly inflated yield although it was shown in Court to be slightly LESS FERTILE than Unmiraculous Wheat. He also Swore Under Oath that he understood Greek, but it was again proved in Court that he did not even know the Greek Alphabet. And his messy divorce revealed him to have been a rather less moral man than his followers would have wished.

Russlell also claimed that the end of the world would occur in 1914. This prediction was based on the dimensions of the Greta Pyramid at Giza, which were not precisely known at the time. As 1914 approached, Jehovah's Witnesses postponed the end of the world to 1915 and then 19-16. The end was then expected in 1920, 1925, 1940, 1975 and 1984. Because the world was about to end, Russell thought that there was little point appointing a successor, so when he died in 1916 it was inevitable that infighting would begin.

This Cult was eventually taken over by the New York attorney Joseph Rutherford, who called himself "The Judge." He was almost immediately arrested and sentenced to 25 years imprisonment for opposing the USA's involvement in WW1.

Jehovah's Witnesses are pacifists, not because they are against killing, but because they do not think they need obey any Earthly government to take up arms. After all, Russell had preached it would be they who would fight at Armageddon, in which everyone would be wiped out EXCEPT for his followers--144,000 places in paradise has been set aside for them. They had no idea where the rest would end up?

This precise limit Russell had put on the capacity of heaven began to cause problems during the 1930's when the cumulative total of the cults following began to approach that figure. Rutherford promptly wrote a seventh volume of "Studies in the Scriptures," announcing that once heaven was full new Witnesses would populate the freshly cleansed Earth.

Rutherford also made another "Great Leap Forward in Theological Doctrine:" from his luxury home in San Diego he pronounced that Christ had not died on the cross at all, but rather at the stake. The word for stake, he claimed, had been mistranslated.

When Rutherford died in 1942 he was succeeded by Nathan Homer Knorr, who commissioned an New Translation of the Bible--The New Translation-- in which to incorporate their doctrinal departures. He was also responsible for the cult's systematic door-to-door sales pitch which goes against Scripture (Go not from house to house Luke 10:7).

Even though Jehovah's Witnesses repeated prophecies regarding the imminent end of the world have been proved wrong and they have lost many followers, the Witnesses' publications continue to offer "evidence that the earth is in its final hours. Any religious sect's leaders who write their own books which guarantees enlightenment without any study of the Bible, (God's Word) at all, and makes changes to the Bible, who's leaders are liars, who brain wash their followers as this cult has, deserves all Revelation 22:18-19 states.

(I think I made it clear that I was quoting a user named "Hazard" from the above subject line.
 
SputnikBoy said:
While I may or may not agree with you in regard to the JWs, sothenes, you need to bear in mind that gingercat has found in mainstream Christianity the very same things that you claim about the JWs. This is WHY she has chosen to affiliate herself with them. I do believe that there is NO denomination that has ALL of the truth so we need to be careful when we climb aboard our hobby horse and decry other denominations. Gingercat needs to experience the JWs herself. She may choose to remain or she may choose to leave but the decision to do either is hers and no one elses.

If you offer advice instead of Deuteronomy 18 which gives the qualification for prophecies, then you don't believe that the New World Translation has enough truth for the test of a prophet when the Watchtower lied and said that Jesus would return in 1914, 1920, 1925, 1940, 1975.
 
gingercat said:
After searching around for 7 years, I have decided to join JW.

I have been told by many churches that they are a cult, so I was never serious about them. But because I have witnessed and experienced so much hypocrisy in the main stream churches, God opened my eyes for the JW.

The more I learn about them the more I give them respect for their thorough servanthood for the Lord.

They don't accept new membership until seekers understand what it takes to follow Jesus!!! So most of their members are wholehearted Christians and they are equipped to be disciples.

Praise the Lord for Jehovah's Witnesses :angel: :angel: :angel:
You sound confused and you sound like you are looking for something that doesn't exist. Here you will find the same bickering and underhandedness that you see in any church. Thats because they are composed of humans. Changing religions like changing automobile brands doesn't solve the problems. It only presents different ones. Hope you like to remain silent and submissive to the Watchtower authority as they believe it comes from God himself and hope you and your family never need a blood transfusion. I don't think you've done your homework.
 
SputnikBoy said:
You follow your own heart, gingercat, to be sure. I have a serious question, however, and I'd be most interested in the answer that you give. I do believe that you were studying - and were quite impressed with - the teachings of the SDA Church not too long ago. Was there any particular part or parts of their doctrines that disuaded you from joining them? This isn't a problem for me, by the way ...I'm just curious.

Thank you Rod for your interest.

From what I have learned about SDA is very fruitful in most of their practices. I was very seriouse about them. But I could not compromize about Christians joining military; they are not against it.

Jesus' main teaching is "love". "Love your enemy" is the most noble teaching of His. I don't believe it is biblical for Christians to join military. They are saying that as long as you don't kill, it is ok. But we are contributing to kill if we are in the military even if you don't kill anyone directly. I don't believe it is biblical to engage in any kind of violence even for self defence!

Please everyone, don't come after me about military issue. I already voiced my postition about it in my thread "love your enemy". thank you. :D
 
gingercat said:
SputnikBoy said:
You follow your own heart, gingercat, to be sure. I have a serious question, however, and I'd be most interested in the answer that you give. I do believe that you were studying - and were quite impressed with - the teachings of the SDA Church not too long ago. Was there any particular part or parts of their doctrines that disuaded you from joining them? This isn't a problem for me, by the way ...I'm just curious.

Thank you Rod for your interest.

From what I have learned about SDA is very fruitful in most of their practices. I was very seriouse about them. But I could not compromize about Christians joining military; they are not against it.

Jesus' main teaching is "love". "Love your enemy" is the most noble teaching of His. I don't believe it is biblical for Christians to join military. They are saying that as long as you don't kill, it is ok. But we are contributing to kill if we are in the military even if you don't kill anyone directly. I don't believe it is biblical to engage in any kind of violence even for self defence!

Please everyone, don't come after me about military issue. I already voiced my postition about it in my thread "love your enemy". thank you. :D

I agree with you about the military in regard to its involvement in issues such as Iraq, Vietnam, and Afganistan. Defending one's own country from invaders might be a different story, however. In regard to foreign involvement, I wonder what would happen If absolutely everyone became a 'conscientious objector' and refused to fight and kill?

Anyway, you answered my question, so thanks.
 
reznwerks said:
You sound confused and you sound like you are looking for something that doesn't exist.


Rezen,

You don't believe in God, so we are seeking very different things. Our perspective is vrey different. You cannot pull me back where I was before. I was once non-believer also for a long time!!!
 
SputnikBoy said:
I wonder what would happen If absolutely everyone became a 'conscientious objector' and refused to fight and kill?

I responded to this in my thread. I hope you read it. :)
 
SputnikBoy said:
I wonder what would happen If absolutely everyone became a 'conscientious objector' and refused to fight and kill?

Well lets see, America would still be part of Britain, Nazi German would control most of Europe and North America, I could go on but I think the point is already made.

In any event I understand the objection to war, however; I think there is biblical evidence that fighting against evil is justified. A lot of evidence, I feel can be found in the Old Testament where God commanded the total destruction of an enemy. I think the important thing to consider when engaging in any kind of conflict is what your motives are. If you are motivated by hate and malice then your actions are more then likely wrong. If you fight to preserve the rights and freedoms of others and ultimately for the glory of God then your actions are more then likely ok. In any event, the topic is about gingercats’ acceptance of Jehovah’s Witnesses, of course if this topic becomes about endorsing Jehovah’s Witness then it will be locked because their beliefs clearly go against the statement of faith of this Christian forumâ€â€so in effect against the TOS.
 
Noc,

I still keep my posistion about the military. Did you read my posts in my thread "love your enemy"? I hope you do.

"Love your enemy" is not eacy to practice. Most people don't want to practice it.
 
BTW noc,

If I have to choose denomination from mainstream churches, SDA will be it.
 
ginger, sometimes the people who dont believe in God are the people who can point out the most obvious things that need to be said. They speak, I listen, cause if you get a good atheist who doesnt just not believe to be a rebel, you generally get something thought provoking.
 
gingercat said:
Noc,

I still keep my posistion about the military. Did you read my posts in my thread "love your enemy"? I hope you do.

"Love your enemy" is not eacy to practice. Most people don't want to practice it.

More then likely, please provide a link. Oh, and you can stand firm in your conviction on the military. I still disagree with you, I was only sharing my conviction not necessarily trying to change yours. Also, I agree that it is hard to practice loving ones enemy. I am in full agreement with it but I’m also in full agreement with fighting against evil and protecting others. I myself could never fight in a war because of my heart condition but that does not change my convictions on the matter.

As for

gingercat said:
BTW noc,

If I have to choose denomination from mainstream churches, SDA will be it.

If you did decided to join the SDA then that would mean you would be accepting such doctrines as the Trinity and the deity of Christ (Him being fully being God and fully man) because SDA’s believe in the essential doctrines. As a matter of fact my brother-in-law is a member of a Advent Christian church, they are not Seventh-Day Adventists but they believe in some of the same doctrines such as annihilation and soul sleep.

It is my hope and pray that you do join a Seventh-Day Adventist church instead of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. To believe in the essential doctrines is paramount to being a Christian. Now I know you still stand by your convictions so just understand I’m stating mine.
 
Nocturnal_Principal_X said:
It is my hope and pray that you do join a Seventh-Day Adventist church instead of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Thank you for your concern but I believe God is in me too, so far God is not leading me to any main stream church. I have watched their fruit of Christianity for a long time. All we have to is watch churchgoers daily lives. Christians' lives should be clear in their lives as godly people.

I have been listening to Doug Bachelor's bible study and their interpretation is very close to JW's. They don't agree with the Trinity, they don't agree with the OSAS, they do believe Jesus is archangel Michael is Jesus. They don't agree with Calvin's doctrine. And I agree with all of them in those issues!!! They are very big differences!!! I believe God is with them too because they are showing a lot of fruit too. God will not cooperate with anyone who are not in line with Him.

I believe those early reformers were very Godly people but most of the churches whashed down to suit everyones' desires as time went by.

My thread is in Apologetics "love your enemy". :D
 
I hope you forgive me for saying this, gingercat, but I would rather hear you say you would not a join a church at all than to hear you say you want to be a JW. I nearly became one when I was a teenager, and turned away from them after I learned their teachings. I am not judging you in any way, nor telling you what to do: after all, it is your own decision, but please think about your decision.
That is all I wanted to say. :oops:
 
I wouldn't trust Doug Batchelor when it comes to the Bible. Some of the things he says are just foolish.
 
ChristineES said:
I hope you forgive me for saying this, gingercat, but I would rather hear you say you would not a join a church at all than to hear you say you want to be a JW. I nearly became one when I was a teenager, and turned away from them after I learned their teachings. I am not judging you in any way, nor telling you what to do: after all, it is your own decision, but please think about your decision.
That is all I wanted to say. :oops:

Christine,

I am very serious Christian, that's why I don't join just any church. I concluded JW is the most biblical after serching around and studied the Bible for 7 years.

It seems that traditional churches persecute devoted Christians in this country. When you give those kind of impression to sincere Christians, somthing is very wrong.

Jesus tells us to be salt and light in the world.
 
If you are so against Christian churches because you believe they only bear bad fruit... yet you embrace the New Testament... isn't there somewhat of a contradiction?

Peter denied Jesus. All who were with Jesus in the Garden fled from him when the Romans arrived. Thomas refused to believe in Jesus' resurrection until he could see and touch the wounds of Christ.

Just because people have shortcomings, doesn't nullify the faith they profess. Even if you join up with the JWs you will eventually become unsatified, because even the JWs are not perfect churchgoers. You are looking for perfection in the church in the wrong place (on earth)... Our perfection will come in Heaven.

God bless in your search for Truth.
 
CatholicXian said:
If you are so against Christian churches because you believe they only bear bad fruit... yet you embrace the New Testament... isn't there somewhat of a contradiction?

Just because most of so called Christians are not fruitful does not mean Jesus and God aren't real.

I can be fruitful without organization if I cannot find any organization in the States.

What you are saying is not biblical and so strange.

Jesus tells us not eveyone who calls Him Lord is not His people.
 
gingercat said:
Thank you for your concern but I believe God is in me too, so far God is not leading me to any main stream church. I have watched their fruit of Christianity for a long time. All we have to is watch churchgoers daily lives. Christians' lives should be clear in their lives as godly people.
Ok, that’s fine. I agree a Christian should produce fruit. It is amazing to me that in what seven years you have managed to visit every “mainline church.†Now, I image you have not visited every “mainline church,†that being the case you really have no idea what great churches there are out there. I have visited a few in my life, great churches that is. In fact I’m prayerfully considering a church in the Wake Forest area. I have been a few Sundays this semester, in school, and I feel God’s presence and I have seen some actually Christian fruit. Among other things the church is big on evangelism, in fact my evangelism professor at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary is a member.

gingercat said:
I have been listening to Doug Bachelor's bible study and their interpretation is very close to JW's. They don't agree with the Trinity, they don't agree with the OSAS, they do believe Jesus is archangel Michael is Jesus. They don't agree with Calvin's doctrine. And I agree with all of them in those issues!!! They are very big differences!!! I believe God is with them too because they are showing a lot of fruit too. God will not cooperate with anyone who are not in line with Him.
Well, I would suggest you look at many different commentaries. Also consider trying to interpret scripture yourself, in other words let the Holy Spirit guide you. As far as OSAS and Calvinism I hope you realize such beliefs are not something all “mainline†churches hold to. In fact, historically Methodists have rejected Calvinism and among other parts of the “ism†“Perseverance of the saints (aka OSAS).â€Â

It seems to me you have a rather limited knowledge about church history….which is ok. It is ok because you can change that. I would suggest maybe picking up a book on church history. I personally think every Christian can benefit from having a general knowledge about church historyâ€â€included in that knowledge base of course comes common theological view points such as Calvinism and Arminianism (which rejects OSAS by the way). In any event, even if you don’t agree with certain things you learn about you can learn something that can help you in your witnessing.

gingercat said:
I believe those early reformers were very Godly people but most of the churches whashed down to suit everyones' desires as time went by.
That is so true, however; not every church is washed down. As I have said many times before, the unfortunate reality is Liberal Theology has “infected†far too many churches. In fact there used to be quite a bit of Liberal Theology within the Southern Baptist Convention. During the 80’s and up through the 90’s there was a Conservative resurgence. Of course the opponents, the Liberal Christians, called the resurgence a Fundamentalist take over…and of course they call themselves Moderates. Anyway the point is although there is quite a bit of Liberal Theology within many churches there are still Conservative churches out there.

The sad reality is America is becoming like Europe in the Christian realm. It is up to this generation and generations before this one to try to change that. We must unite and work together to bring back churches to churches that proclaim and teach the gospel. I myself pray for another Great Awakening like The First Great Awakening (1730s - 1740s), and The Second Great Awakening (1820s - 1830s).

gingercat said:
My thread is in Apologetics "love your enemy". :D
Ok, well I could not find it, so could you provide a link please?
 
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