If God Loved everyone !

[savedbygrace57]

glory says:

I'm sorry to have to say this, but you're way too proud to have been taught by God.

Thats you, you reject Gods word, for your own..

 

[Orion]

:nag . . . . . . . . . . . . :biglol

:

Priceless. ;)

 

[mondar]

:nag . . . . . . . . . . . . :biglol

:

Priceless. ;)

LOL

 

[RND]

:nag . . . . . . . . . . . . :biglol

:

Priceless. ;)

LOL

Unfortunately savedbygrace57 has turned this into a "neener, neener" and a "does not, does too" argument.

 

[savedbygrace57]

rnd asked:

:

How does a goat become a sheep? Do you know?

They cant, when a sheep is lost and unconverted, its still a lost sheep, not a goat..

 

[savedbygrace57]

2 pet 3:9 -

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 pet 3:

9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

This is another verse that the Antichrist members have had a grand ole time corrupting to fit their lust, and imposing the sense of it as God being not willing that any of mankind should perish in their sins, but He is giving everyone a chance to do the right thing and repent and get saved, what hog wash...

First of all we must understand the context of this scripture, and what is said before it. To take the words any and all in a unrestricted sense, the context must promote the same..

Now, the context begins about Gods promise, and that God is not slack about the 2 nd coming of Christ vs 4


3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Many centuries of time has elapsed since the promise of His return..BTW, Lets not forget the Divine computation of time, a thousand years is as a day, and a day as a thousand years, so according to this reckoning, its been a little over two days ago the promise was made, something the preterits needs to consider.

With the Lord, who is eternal, the sense of time is compressed a thousand fold compared with our [ men] sense of time..

So in the context of what appears to be a delay in the promise of the second coming, this delay is not due to any slackness in the promise, as some men count it to be, but God is Longsuffering to us-ward

not willing that any should perish..

Now, who are the us-ward, is it every single individual upon the planet or is it Gods own elect, or His beloved ones ? In view of the context this can be determined vs 8

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The beloved of God is being addressed as the us-ward, also lets look more closely at the beginning of the letter, where we find specifically to whom it was written..2 pet 1:

1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Notice to whom it is written, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us [ peter was chosen ] through #1. The righteousness of God & Our Saviour Jesus Christ..

Now has all mankind obtained or will obtain this precious faith ?

The answer is no..

So this must be kept in mind in determining just who it is that God is not willing to perish, but to come to repentance..

 

[glorydaz]

Many centuries of time has elapsed since the promise of His return..BTW, Lets not forget the Divine computation of time, a thousand years is as a day, and a day as a thousand years, so according to this reckoning, its been a little over two days ago the promise was made, something the preterits needs to consider.

With the Lord, who is eternal, the sense of time is compressed a thousand fold compared with our [ men] sense of time.

So this must be kept in mind in determining just who it is that God is not willing to perish, but to come to repentance..

Your logic is forever one-sided. You can compress God's time, but you can't expand it.
There are two parts to that verse, and you see only one.

Do you have vision in just one eye, and blind in the other?

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Since God died for the sins of the whole world, He would like all to come to repentance.
Since God has given man a free will...not all will come.

Just as one day is a thousand years.
A thousand years is one day.

There are two sides to a coin, and yet you insist there is only one.

 

[follower of Christ]

For God so loved the "WORLD"
Wm Tipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
That the 'world' God loves and that Christ died for ISNT just this 'elect' but also those who will reject Him and eventually fall into eternal torment because of THEIR decision to do so.


Supporting Evidence
Below we see that this 'world' includes BOTH the condemned AND those who believe and are not condemned

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the basis for judgment: The light has come into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light because their actions were evil. For everyone who practices wickedness hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his actions may not be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that all may see that his actions have been done in God."
(Joh 3 )KJV)

The context of the passage shows clearly that it is 'the WORLD' that is being spoken of...and this 'world' very clearly includes those who believe and are not condemned, and those who believe not and ARE condemned because they do not believe.
Whosoever of the WORLD that God LOVES that believes is not condemned.

Nowhere does this passage say that Jesus died ONLY for the elect or those who believe. It shows just the opposite, that He was sent into the world NOT to condemn it, but to offer the world salvation.

ALL in the WORLD were offered salvation. Those who CHOOSE to not believe in Jesus Christ will be condemned because of that choice.

 

[glorydaz]

For God so loved the "WORLD"
Wm Tipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
That the 'world' God loves and that Christ died for ISNT just this 'elect' but also those who will reject Him and eventually fall into eternal torment because of THEIR decision to do so.


Supporting Evidence
Below we see that this 'world' includes BOTH the condemned AND those who believe and are not condemned

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the basis for judgment: The light has come into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light because their actions were evil. For everyone who practices wickedness hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his actions may not be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that all may see that his actions have been done in God."
(Joh 3 )KJV)

The context of the passage shows clearly that it is 'the WORLD' that is being spoken of...and this 'world' very clearly includes those who believe and are not condemned, and those who believe not and ARE condemned because they do not believe.
Whosoever of the WORLD that God LOVES that believes is not condemned.

Nowhere does this passage say that Jesus died ONLY for the elect or those who believe. It shows just the opposite, that He was sent into the world NOT to condemn it, but to offer the world salvation.

ALL in the WORLD were offered salvation. Those who CHOOSE to not believe in Jesus Christ will be condemned because of that choice.

Thank you, brother.

 

[mondar]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the basis for judgment: The light has come into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light because their actions were evil. For everyone who practices wickedness hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his actions may not be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that all may see that his actions have been done in God."
(Joh 3 )KJV)[/color]

The context of the passage shows clearly that it is 'the WORLD' that is being spoken of...and this 'world' very clearly includes those who believe and are not condemned, and those who believe not and ARE condemned because they do not believe.
Whosoever of the WORLD that God LOVES that believes is not condemned.

Nowhere does this passage say that Jesus died ONLY for the elect or those who believe. It shows just the opposite, that He was sent into the world NOT to condemn it, but to offer the world salvation.

ALL in the WORLD were offered salvation. Those who CHOOSE to not believe in Jesus Christ will be condemned because of that choice.[/quote]
In John 3:16-17 if the "world" means every single person. Then when we read in verse 17 that he did not come to judge, but to save the world, is that not universalism?

I know most Arminians want to read what you do into the text that it says salvation is offered to everyone in the world. Just as you say the elect are not mentioned in the text, so also, when the text says "but that the world through him might be saved." This looks more like actual salvation, not a hypothetical remote possibility of salvation dependent upon pleasing God with our faith.

 

[glorydaz]

In John 3:16-17 if the "world" means every single person. Then when we read in verse 17 that he did not come to judge, but to save the world, is that not universalism?

I know most Arminians want to read what you do into the text that it says salvation is offered to everyone in the world. Just as you say the elect are not mentioned in the text, so also, when the text says "but that the world through him might be saved." This looks more like actual salvation, not a hypothetical remote possibility of salvation dependent upon pleasing God with our faith.

So the world "might be saved". This speaks to the choice we are given to accept or reject.

Universalism changes it to say "will be saved".
That is as incorrect as saying the "world" means only the elect.

Jesus came to reconcile mankind to God by His death on the cross.
He rent the veil that separated man from God.
Man could now enter in the Holy of Holies...they have access to God.

And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Those who partake of the resurrection by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, will be raised to eternal life.

Not all men choose to enter in.
Therefore, not all will be saved.
Some will reject and turn away from the offer given them by God.
They will ignore the command to repent.
They will refuse to take advantage of the access they now have to God.

 

[RND]

rnd asked:

:

How does a goat become a sheep? Do you know?

They cant, when a sheep is lost and unconverted, its still a lost sheep, not a goat..

Who says they can't? Some of the goats that hung Jesus from a tree later became sheep. Paul was once a goat that persecuted the sheepfold. In fact, everyone that doesn't hear the voice of Jesus is a goat.

 

[glorydaz]

rnd asked:

:

How does a goat become a sheep? Do you know?

They cant, when a sheep is lost and unconverted, its still a lost sheep, not a goat..

Who says they can't? Some of the goats that hung Jesus from a tree later became sheep. Paul was once a goat that persecuted the sheepfold. In fact, everyone that doesn't hear the voice of Jesus is a goat.

Do you honestly think the Lord can make a "new creature" from an old one?
I'm afraid you have way too much faith. :yes

 

[RND]

Do you honestly think the Lord can make a "new creature" from an old one?
I'm afraid you have way too much faith. :yes

Not only do I believe that with all my heart, mind, and being glorydaz, I have seen it in action! I have first person proof of the promises of God! I go into prisons and see the faith that God has displayed in the men that I visit and fellowship with. I would love to take savedbygarce57 into a federal prison so they can see in person goats turned into sheep. God promises that through His Son He will make a "new" man and I believe Him and His promises.

 

[glorydaz]

Do you honestly think the Lord can make a "new creature" from an old one?
I'm afraid you have way too much faith. :yes

Not only do I believe that with all my heart, mind, and being glorydaz, I have seen it in action! I have first person proof of the promises of God! I go into prisons and see the faith that God has displayed in the men that I visit and fellowship with. I would love to take savedbygarce57 into a federal prison so they can see in person goats turned into sheep. God promises that through His Son He will make a "new" man and I believe Him and His promises.

Heck, I only need to look in the mirror and I see a sheep where there used to be a goat. :yes

Yes, some people like to think they were a better class of sinner than the rest. I see a great deal of pride in that doctrine. I believe you mentioned that once before. The pride of life...or, in this case, the pride of past life. :biglaugh

 

[savedbygrace57]

A sheep is always a sheep, and a goat is always a goat..

 

[glorydaz]

A sheep is always a sheep, and a goat is always a goat..

And a man is always a man...never a new creation. :help

 

[savedbygrace57]

A sheep is always a sheep, and a goat is always a goat..

And a man is always a man...never a new creation. :help

A sheep is always a sheep, even when lost, its called a lost sheep, not a goat..

 

[mutzrein]

A sheep is always a sheep, and a goat is always a goat..

And a man is always a man...never a new creation. :help

A sheep is always a sheep, even when lost, its called a lost sheep, not a goat..

Amen!

 

[RND]

A sheep is always a sheep, and a goat is always a goat..

Not according to the Bible.