If God Loved everyone !

[savedbygrace57]

Its a mistake to think that the unconverted sheep are goats, for scripture makes no such claim, thats speculation, for Isa writes that all we like sheep have gone astray into our own sinful ways Isa 53:

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Our own way is sinful, and alienated from the Life of God and at enmity with Him... So a sheep can be Just that, until they are made a new creation, a new sheep..but never are sheep goats..

 

[RND]

Its a mistake to think that the unconverted sheep are goats, for scripture makes no such claim, thats speculation, for Isa writes that all we like sheep have gone astray into our own sinful ways Isa 53:

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

I guess that explains why we need a Shepherd.

Our own way is sinful, and alienated from the Life of God and at enmity with Him... So a sheep can be Just that, until they are made a new creation, a new sheep..but never are sheep goats..

I guess you aren't too familiar with the sacrifices of the day of atonement.

 

[savedbygrace57]

rnd says:

It's implied.

No its not, for the opposite is implied, Jesus seeks the lost sheep, not goats lk 15:

1Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

2And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

3And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

4What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

What reasonable soul cannot see from this parable that Jesus equates sheep as sinners which need repentance !

Says nothing about no goat..

 

[savedbygrace57]

rnd says:

I guess that explains why we need a Shepherd.

The goats dont have a sheperd..who died for them, but the sheep do Jn 10:

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

That right there gives any reasonable person to understand that the sheep are sinful creatures if one had to die for their sins..

 

[RND]

rnd says:

It's implied.

No its not, for the opposite is implied, Jesus seeks the lost sheep, not goats lk 15:

Right, the shepherd is looking for his lost sheep.

1Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.

2And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

3And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

4What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

What reasonable soul cannot see from this parable that Jesus equates sheep as sinners which need repentance !

I concur. Lost sheep in need of repentance. But this isn't referring to that last day. Also, have you considered just how much this speaks against election?

Says nothing about no goat..

No, it says that regarding the day of Atonement.

 

[RND]

rnd says:

I guess that explains why we need a Shepherd.

The goats dont have a sheperd..who died for them, but the sheep do Jn 10:

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

That right there gives any reasonable person to understand that the sheep are sinful creatures if one had to die for their sins..

I'm fairly certain that on the last day all the sheep that God gave Jesus will be saved. The goats will choose not to hear the shepherd.

Mat 25:31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

 

[savedbygrace57]

rnd says:

Right, the shepherd is looking for his lost sheep.

No He is not, He found them..lk 19:

10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
lk 15:

5And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

 

[savedbygrace57]

I'm fairly certain that on the last day all the sheep that God gave Jesus will be saved. The goats will choose not to hear the shepherd.

They were not sheep, for if they had been Jesus said :

Jn 10:

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

 

[RND]

rnd says:

Right, the shepherd is looking for his lost sheep.

No He is not, He found them..lk 19:

10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
lk 15:

5And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

Read when as in not all is accomplished. Jesus is still looking for lost sheep.

 

[RND]

I'm fairly certain that on the last day all the sheep that God gave Jesus will be saved. The goats will choose not to hear the shepherd.

They were not sheep, for if they had been Jesus said :

Jn 10:

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

I guess if a goat decides to listen it really was a sheep.

 

[savedbygrace57]

rnd says:

I guess if a goat decides to listen it really was a sheep.

Since when is truth about what you guess ?

 

[glorydaz]

glory:

I'll agree on the elect/non-elect doctrine. It is very dangerous and discouraging for anyone not yet saved.

No its not, besides, a person is saved before they hear the gospel, the death of christ did that, but the gospel informs them who are saved by christ death, of their salvation and they believe the Truth because they have been spiritually capacitated to..

eph 1:

12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The saved are given to hear the gospel of their salvation..it was theirs before they heard about it and trusted..

It's through hearing the gospel that we can be saved.
Not the other way around.
Are you dyslexic, by any chance.?

First you say "all men" means the elect, and now you say "your" means the elect.

I wonder why God has all these other people around...is it just to give the elect someone to talk about?

 

[AnnieHere]

Savedbygrace 57,

By God's grace, you really DO understand what Biblical salvation is all about.
Reading your thoughts throughout this thread, and seeing the unfounded,
unbiblical, emotional and personal attacks you have come up against;
I commend your efforts to relay truth, as found in the Bible, on this board.

"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for;
BUT THE ELECTION HATH OBTAINED IT, AND THE REST WERE BLINDED
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber,
eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day."
-Romans 11:7-8

 

[glorydaz]

rnd says:

Sheep don't have carnal hearts. Goats do

scripture please that says this..

Surely you can find some verse to alter that would support your claim.

I was going to say this one...

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

But that word "yet" seems to imply someone could change from a goat to a sheep, so better not use it.

 

[glorydaz]

Savedbygrace 57,

By God's grace, you really DO understand what Biblical salvation is all about.
Reading your thoughts throughout this thread, and seeing the unfounded,
unbiblical, emotional and personal attacks you have come up against;
I commend your efforts to relay truth, as found in the Bible, on this board.

"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for;
BUT THE ELECTION HATH OBTAINED IT, AND THE REST WERE BLINDED
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber,
eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day."
-Romans 11:7-8

They're only called elect because God foreknew who would be His.
He's God...He can do that.

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

God also knows why some are so self-important they dismiss the rest of mankind as a bunch of useless goats that have no right to be on this earth at all. And I can assure you He is not pleased.

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory:

They're only called elect because God foreknew who would be His.
He's God...He can do that.

They are called elect because He chose them in christ before the foundation of the world..eph 1:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love

 

[AnnieHere]

They are called ELECT because God had chosen them before the foundation of the world!


"According as HE HATH CHOSEN US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD,
that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

HAVING PREDESTINATED US UNTO THE ADOPTION OF CHILDREN BY JESUS CHRIST TO HIMSELF,
ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL.

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein HE HATH MADE US accepted in the beloved.

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, ACCORDING TO THE RICHES OF HIS GRACE;

Wherein HE HATH ABOUNDED TOWARD US IN ALL WISDOM AND PRUDENCE;

Having made known unto us THE MYSTERY OF HIS WILL, ACCORDING TO HIS GOOD PLEASURE WHICH HE HATH PURPOSE IN HIMSELF
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times HE MIGHT GATHER TOGETHER IN ONE ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, both which are in heaven,
and which are on earth; [even] in him::

In whom also WE HAVE OBTAINED AN INHERITANCE, BEING PREDESTINATED ACCORDING TO THE PURPOSE OF HIN WHO WORKETH
ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL"

-Ephesians 1:4-11

 

[Orion]

So, . . . once again, savedbygrace and mondar, . . . . please anwer this question:

Why did you god choose to make ME "one of the goats"? Why did he choose to make me someone "made for destruction"?

 

[jasoncran]

So, . . . once again, savedbygrace and mondar, . . . . please anwer this question:

Why did you god choose to make ME "one of the goats"? Why did he choose to make me someone "made for destruction"?

he didn't calvanism to that extreme is wrong, yes the lord knows who will answer him, no denying that, but all person are called to repent, it's our choice not to repent or repent.

 

[shad]

So, . . . once again, savedbygrace and mondar, . . . . please anwer this question:

Why did you god choose to make ME "one of the goats"? Why did he choose to make me someone "made for destruction"?

Orion,

If God made you a goat, you are not responsible for not being obedient to Jesus or not being a Christian. So there is no judgment for you.