If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?

[JLB]

Quote the scripture that you think is the "Gospel" message, so that you can show us what you are claiming the "gospel" message actually is, JLB.

Jesus preached the message of the Kingdom.

From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17


His disciples were sent out to preach the message that He preached.

11 And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!"
12 So they went out and preached that people should repent. Mark 6:11-12


Repent means to turn to God, which is turning away from Satan as Lord.


The message that Jesus commissioned Paul to preach and do.

15 So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.
17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you,
18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.' Acts 26:15-18

The way to receive the forgiveness of sins, is to repent, which is to turn away from Satan as lord to Jesus as Lord.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Jesus preached the message of the Kingdom.

From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17


His disciples were sent out to preach the message that He preached.

11 And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!"
12 So they went out and preached that people should repent. Mark 6:11-12


Repent means to turn to God, which is turning away from Satan as Lord.

The message that Jesus commissioned Paul to preach and do.

15 So I said, 'Who are You, Lord?' And He said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.
17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you,
18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.' Acts 26:15-18

The way to receive the forgiveness of sins, is to repent, which is to turn away from Satan as lord to Jesus as Lord.JLB

Why was placing one's faith in Christ left out here? Here is what Jesus taught repeatedly:
Jn 3:15,16 - so that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoevef believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

John 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 - “For thisis the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 11:25-26 - 25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, 26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Now, it's clear what Jesus taught about having eternal life; believing in Him.

So, it should be equally as clear that to "repent" means to believe in Him. Because the Greek word means to "change the mind", which is what someone does when turning to Christ in faith for salvation. That is a change of mind.

 

[Kidron]

Jesus preached the message of the Kingdom.

JLB

Teach and preach what Paul preaches and teaches..."Christ Crucified".. I Corinthians 1:23 ..as THIS is the Gospel.
So, my advice to you, is as Paul said...."be a follower of me " 1st Corinthians 11:1, and preach what Paul preaches and teaches so that you are actually talking about the Cross and the Blood atonement and the Grace of God as a free gift.
That's what you are to do, just like Paul did it, so that you can lead people to the saving knowledge of the Cross which gets them into the Kingdom.

 

[reba]

A bit of Mathew Henry

We have here,
I. The manner in which Paul preached the gospel, and the cross of Christ: Not with the wisdom of words (1Co_1:17), the enticing words of man's wisdom (1Co_2:4), the flourish of oratory, or the accuracies of philosophical language, upon which the Greeks so much prided themselves, and which seem to have been the peculiar recommendations of some of the heads of the faction in this church that most opposed this apostle. He did not preach the gospel in this manner, lest the cross of Christ should be of no effect, lest the success should be ascribed to the force of art, and not of truth; not to the plain doctrine of a crucified Jesus, but to the powerful oratory of those who spread it, and hereby the honour of the cross be diminished or eclipsed. Paul had been bred up himself in Jewish learning at the feet of Gamaliel, but in preaching the cross of Christ he laid his learning aside. He preached a crucified Jesus in plain language, and told the people that that Jesus who was crucified at Jerusalem was the Son of God and Saviour of men, and that all who would be saved must repent of their sins, and believe in him, and submit to his government and laws. This truth needed no artificial dress; it shone out with the greatest majesty in its own light, and prevailed in the world by its divine authority, and the demonstration of the Spirit, without any human helps. The plain preaching of a crucified Jesus was more powerful than all the oratory and philosophy of the heathen world.
II. We have the different effects of this preaching: To those who perish it is foolishness, but to those who are saved it is the power of God, 1Co_1:18. It is to the Jews a stumbling-block, and to the Greeks foolishness; but unto those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God, 1Co_1:23, 1Co_1:24. 1. Christ crucified is a stumbling-block to the Jews. They could not get over it. They had a conceit that their expected Messiah was to be a great temporal prince, and therefore would never own one who made so mean an appearance in life, and died so accursed a death, for their deliverer and king. They despised him, and looked upon him as execrable, because he was hanged on a tree, and because he did not gratify them with a sign to their mind, though his divine power shone out in innumerable miracles. The Jews require a sign, 1Co_1:22. See Mat_12:38. 2. He was to the Greeks foolishness. They laughed at the story of a crucified Saviour, and despised the apostles' way of telling it. They sought for wisdom. They were men of wit and reading, men that had cultivated arts and sciences, and had, for some ages, been in a manner the very mint of knowledge and learning. There was nothing in the plain doctrine of the cross to suit their taste, nor humour their vanity, nor gratify a curious and wrangling temper: they entertained it therefore with scorn and contempt. What, hope to be saved by one that could not save himself! And trust in one who was condemned and crucified as a malefactor, a man of mean birth and poor condition in life, and cut off by so vile and opprobrious a death! This was what the pride of human reason and learning could not relish. The Greeks thought it little better than stupidity to receive such a doctrine, and pay this high regard to such a person: and thus were they justly left to perish in their pride and obstinacy. Note, It is just with God to leave those to themselves who pour such proud contempt on divine wisdom and grace. 3. To those who are called and saved he is the wisdom of God, and the power of God. Those who are called and sanctified, who receive the gospel, and are enlightened by the Spirit of God, discern more glorious discoveries of God's wisdom and power in the doctrine of Christ crucified than in all his other works. Note, Those who are saved are reconciled to the doctrine of the cross, and led into an experimental acquaintance with the mysteries of Christ crucified.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I've seen that eternal life is defined as a gift of God (Rom 6:23) and that God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29). Surely these verses mean what they say.

In the context of those verses, yes, they mean what they say.
The error of this doctrine is ignoring the immediate context of Romans 11:29 and selectively grasping for context outside of Romans 11 to defend the argument. And then adding insult to injury by choosing to ignore the passage that shows us that it is not true that all gifts are categorically and without exception not taken back in the kingdom (Matthew 18:23-35).

The Greek word for "hold fast" means to "possess". So, what is believed (saving faith) means that one possesses the faith.

That does not change the fact that 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 plainly says that only 'if' the saved Corinthians hold on to the gospel (possess it, as you say) they are saved:

"you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

But this doctrine being set forth claims believers do NOT have to possess the message of the gospel in faith which they heard, and received, and on which they stand to be saved. That directly contradicts the plain words of Paul.

Eph 1:13,14 - 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Please explain how this doesn't really mean what it plainly says.

It means exactly what it says. The believer is sealed (protected, etc.) by the Holy Spirit for the Day of Redemption/salvation. The deceitful error being introduced here is redefining 'sealed' to mean irreversible, as if 'sealed' by definition, categorically and without exception, means 'not able to be un-sealed'. Let us consider that, folks, when we are sealing our Thanksgiving leftovers next month.

Does God keep His promises? Of course He does. He cannot lie. Heb 6:18.

The promise of salvation is conditional on faith. It is the required conduit through which we receive justification/salvation. For some reason the Protestant church has changed the message of salvation on the Day of Wrath from one of 'salvation not being conditioned on works' to a message of 'salvation not being conditioned on faith'. As if thinking that faith is the way we get what God promised (Romans 5:2 NIV) is actually trying to work for your salvation. We have gone so terribly, ludicrously wrong. It's amazing that the church has removed even faith itself as the required and necessary conduit through which a person accesses the power of salvation:

"an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1: NASB)

The plain words of Peter show us it's wrong to say we are not protected through faith for the salvation that is to be revealed, and that's why it is not necessary for the believer to have (possess) his faith on the Day of Salvation to be saved. Peter plainly says it is through that very faith that we are protected for the salvation we are going to receive on the Day of Judgment.

 

[JLB]

Teach and preach what Paul preaches and teaches..."Christ Crucified".. I Corinthians 1:23 ..as THIS is the Gospel.
So, my advice to you, is as Paul said...."be a follower of me " 1st Corinthians 11:1, and preach what Paul preaches and teaches so that you are actually talking about the Cross and the Blood atonement and the Grace of God as a free gift.
That's what you are to do, just like Paul did it, so that you can lead people to the saving knowledge of the Cross which gets them into the Kingdom.

Here is what Jesus Christ commissioned Paul to do and teach -

14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ 15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’


19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Acts 26:14-19


...and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.



JLB

 

[Kidron]

18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they >>>>may receive forgiveness of sins <<<<



JLB

See that phrase "may receive forgiveness of Sins".
See that word "MAY".......this means, if they WILL........if they CHOOSE TO, > BELIEVE the GOSPEL..
And the Gospel is....
1 Corinthians 15:3-5

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

That God has provided Christ on a CROSS to achieve "forgiveness of Sins".
This is why Paul said....."Jesus sent me not to WATER BAPTIZE , but to PREACH THE GOSPEL".. 1 Corinthians 1:17
Paul said " I - we preach Christ Crucified". = The GOSPEL is....."Christ died on a cross for SINNERS".....and the rest is "Believe and receive by FAITH" the "GIFT of GOD'' which is MERCY, and the "gift of Righteousness". > Romans 5:17.

So THAT is what you are to teach and preach as the Gospel, and the only means to be saved.
And nothing else BUT that., ever.

 

[MarkT]

Why was placing one's faith in Christ left out here? Here is what Jesus taught repeatedly:
Jn 3:15,16 - so that whoever believes in Him will have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoevef believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

John 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 - “For thisis the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 11:25-26 - 25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, 26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Now, it's clear what Jesus taught about having eternal life; believing in Him.

So, it should be equally as clear that to "repent" means to believe in Him. Because the Greek word means to "change the mind", which is what someone does when turning to Christ in faith for salvation. That is a change of mind.

There has to be some sorrow for what you have done. To repent is to feel sorrow for the evil things you did. It's to say you are sorry and you will do those things no more.

 

[MarkT]

Forgive others and you will be forgiven.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

 

[MarkT]

I've "made" nothing of what is claimed.


I've never seen any verse that tells me that my salvation can be lost. But I've seen that eternal life is defined as a gift of God (Rom 6:23) and that God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29). Surely these verses mean what they say.


I certainly hope that someone else also requests that.


The Greek word for "hold fast" means to "possess". So, what is believed (saving faith) means that one possesses the faith.

And vice versa. When one believes, they become the possession of God Himself, who seals that believer with the Holy Spirit FOR the day of redemption. And this is a guarantee from God.

Eph 1:13,14 - 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Please explain how this doesn't really mean what it plainly says.

Does God keep His promises? Of course He does. He cannot lie. Heb 6:18.

Jesus' word is rock Mt. 7:24, and if you build on rock, your house won't fall. When you build on Jesus, you are building on the words he gave us, and his words are true. Even Paul has to build on Jesus. No sense quoting Paul if you don't have a saying. I'm not saying Paul is wrong about those who have received the Spirit.

So what does the Spirit of truth say about unbelievers? They are condemned already. John 3:18

And his sayings? 'If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day. John 12:47-48

And his sheep?
"When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” John 10:4-5

Jesus is the door of the sheep. John 10:7-9 When the door opens, the sheep enter. They follow him, a stranger they do not follow.

So if they do not follow him, are they his sheep? No. Because his sheep follow him.

 

[FreeGrace]

In the context of those verses, yes, they mean what they say.
The error of this doctrine is ignoring the immediate context of Romans 11:29 and selectively grasping for context outside of Romans 11 to defend the argument.

This is no defense at all. In fact, Paul never defined anything in ch 11 as a gift of God. The ONLY place he did define what he meant (not what we may want him to mean) is to find WHAT he defined as gifts of God. And that has already been shown: justification in 3:24 and 5:15,16,17 and eternal life in 6:23. No where else did Paul define anything else as gifts of God.

And then adding insult to injury by choosing to ignore the passage that shows us that it is not true that all gifts are categorically and without exception not taken back in the kingdom (Matthew 18:23-35).

Interesting. I'm "lectured" on staying within the context of ch 11, and here you've gone WAY OUTSIDE of any context of Romans to defend your own views.

My view STAY WITHIN the whole context of one epistle.

That does not change the fact that 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 plainly says that only 'if' the saved Corinthians hold on to the gospel (possess it, as you say) they are saved:

"you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

Except it doesn't mean what is being claimed. The single Greek word for "hold fast" means to possess. So this passage doesn't help your view either.

But this doctrine being set forth claims believers do NOT have to possess the message of the gospel in faith which they heard, and received, and on which they stand to be saved. That directly contradicts the plain words of Paul.

Not so. Because once a person believes, they ARE CHANGED permenantly by the Holy Spirit. We call that regeneration, the new birth, and becoming a NEW CREATURE. And Paul specifically said that when one believes, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit FOR the day of redemption (Eph 1:13,14, 4:30). In fact, Paul said in Eph 1:14 that the sealed person is God's own possession.

"who is given as a pledge of ourinheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s ownpossession, to the praise of His glory."

It means exactly what it says. The believer is sealed (protected, etc.) by the Holy Spirit for the Day of Redemption/salvation.

Yes, that has been my point.

The deceitful error being introduced here is redefining 'sealed' to mean irreversible, as if 'sealed' by definition, categorically and without exception, means 'not able to be un-sealed'.

The ONLY reason I have done that is because there are NO VERSES that state the opposite; that this sealing with the Holy Spirit can or has been broken. I've been asking the insecurity crowd over and over where the verses are that teach that this seal can be broken. And none have been able to provide any answer.

Let us consider that, folks, when we are sealing our Thanksgiving leftovers next month.

Let's be reasonable here. Paul wasn't talking turkey here. He was speaking of the Holy Spirit who has been PROMISED FOR the day of redemption.

Does God break His promises? If He does, then He is a liar. But Scripture says that God cannot lie. Titus 1:2

The promise of salvation is conditional on faith.

The key here is that the Bible does NOT teach ongoing faith for salvation. Acts 16:31 and Rom 10:10 speaks of faith in the aorist tense. Point in time. Which saves.

 

[FreeGrace]

There has to be some sorrow for what you have done.

Is this an attempt to redefine Biblical words??? On who's authority? Please support your claim from the Greek word for repent, which is 'metanoia'.

To repent is to feel sorrow for the evil things you did. It's to say you are sorry and you will do those things no more.

Please show this from the Greek.

 

[FreeGrace]

So what does the Spirit of truth say about unbelievers? They are condemned already. John 3:18

Let's be clear here. The Bible NEVER speaks of a believer who quits believing as an unbeliever. They are called apostate, which means former believer. But that doesn't change anything because the new birth, regeneration and becoming a new creature cannot be undone. Or the Bible would specifically say so. And it doesn't.

And his sheep?
"When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.” John 10:4-5

Jesus is the door of the sheep. John 10:7-9 When the door opens, the sheep enter. They follow him, a stranger they do not follow.

So if they do not follow him, are they his sheep? No. Because his sheep follow him.

The context for the later part of John 10 happens to be the earlier part of John 10. 2 And that part clearly indicates that if one "enters by the door (Jesus), they are saved". Period.

John 10:9 - “I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

NO WHERE does Jesus or anyone else say that following Jesus will save anyone. The only condition is faith in Him. Which is taught over and over in John's gospel.

Jesus was making a general statement about those who have believed in Him; they follow Him. He was NOT claiming that every single one will. In fact, Jesus clearly noted those who have 'believed for a while, but in time of testing, fall away' in Luke 8:13. Yet, there is NO SCRIPTURE that says that one who quits believing will stop being saved.

 

[MarkT]

Is this an attempt to redefine Biblical words??? On who's authority? Please support your claim from the Greek word for repent, which is 'metanoia'.


Please show this from the Greek.

I'm going by the English translation of the word; if you want to know what repent means, get a dictionary.

 

[MarkT]

Let's be clear here. The Bible NEVER speaks of a believer who quits believing as an unbeliever. They are called apostate, which means former believer. But that doesn't change anything because the new birth, regeneration and becoming a new creature cannot be undone. Or the Bible would specifically say so. And it doesn't.

If a believer falls away, he becomes an unbeliever. An unbeliever is someone who does not believe. So as for a person who quits believing, he is condemned because he does not believe. John 3:18

NO WHERE does Jesus or anyone else say that following Jesus will save anyone.

Jesus used to have a huge following. Then they all fell away except for the twelve. Jesus said “I have said all this to you to keep you from falling away. John 16:1 So falling away was a concern.

Indeed Jesus said many will fall away Mt. 24:10, and if God did not shorten the days of tribulation, no human being would be saved. Mt. 24:22 So there is a direct association with following him and being saved, and falling away and not being saved.

John 10:27-28 says, his sheep follow him.

 

[FreeGrace]

I'm going by the English translation of the word; if you want to know what repent means, get a dictionary.

Since the NT writers didn't know anything about English, why should we go by what the English words mean? The writers, inspired by the Holy Spirit, wrote in Greek. So it's the Greek word that is important, not the Greek word as translated into English.

So, let's see what the actual word as inspired by the Holy Spirit means:

Acts 26:20 - but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent (metanoeo) and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.

metanoeō
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins

The word combines 2 Greek words: meta, meaning "change" and noeo, meaning "the mind". Hence, to change one's mind.

There is nothing in that Greek word about feeling sorry for anything.

If the NT writers had written in Enlish, looking at an English dictionary would be ok.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Let's be clear here. The Bible NEVER speaks of a believer who quits believing as an unbeliever. They are called apostate, which means former believer. But that doesn't change anything because the new birth, regeneration and becoming a new creature cannot be undone. Or the Bible would specifically say so. And it doesn't."

If a believer falls away, he becomes an unbeliever. An unbeliever is someone who does not believe. So as for a person who quits believing, he is condemned because he does not believe. John 3:18

Simply repeating onself doesn't count as a defense, nor a refutation of another's comments. How about dealing with what I said? Changing one's mind about faith in Christ does NOT remove or take away what God has done to that person. They have been changed spiritually: they are said to be born again, regenerated, are new creatures, are children of God, HAVE eternal life. And there are NO verses that warn that any of these things can be revoked, removed, taken away.

Jesus used to have a huge following. Then they all fell away except for the twelve. Jesus said “I have said all this to you to keep you from falling away. John 16:1 So falling away was a concern.

Of course it's a concern. The Bible encouraged believers to remain true to the faith. But NEVER warns of loss of salvation. However, after Jesus ascended to heaven, there were 120 followers. So your statement is in error.

Indeed Jesus said many will fall away Mt. 24:10, and if God did not shorten the days of tribulation, no human being would be saved. Mt. 24:22 So there is a direct association with following him and being saved, and falling away and not being saved.

No, there's not. The Bible is clear; eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23) and God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).

Furthermore, God seals the believer WHEN they believe with the Holy Spirit FOR the day of redemption.
Eph 1:13,14 - 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

We all know what a "promise" is. Does God keep or break His promises? If He breaks a promise, then He is a liar. Is that your view? Because that's where your theology leads.

Titus 1:2 says that God cannot lie. Therefore, He cannot break any of His promises.

Eph 4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

It could not be said more clear: the believer is sealed FOR THE DAY OF REDEMPTION. If this seal could be broken by anything the believer could do, such as ceasing to believe, why didn't Paul say so? All he said was that we need to stop grieving the Holy Spirit. Because we ARE SEALED for the day of redemption.

If this seal can be broken, which is a promise or pledge, then God is a liar. I wouldn't accept that view ever because it is blasphemous to suggest that God would or could lie.

There is no support for your view. In fact, Scripture refutes your view.

 

[MarkT]

Since the NT writers didn't know anything about English, why should we go by what the English words mean? The writers, inspired by the Holy Spirit, wrote in Greek. So it's the Greek word that is important, not the Greek word as translated into English.

So, let's see what the actual word as inspired by the Holy Spirit means:

Acts 26:20 - but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent (metanoeo) and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.

metanoeō
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins

The word combines 2 Greek words: meta, meaning "change" and noeo, meaning "the mind". Hence, to change one's mind.

There is nothing in that Greek word about feeling sorry for anything.

If the NT writers had written in Enlish, looking at an English dictionary would be ok.

How is it ok if repent does not mean repent in English? Repent - to feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin. Maybe the Greek scholars got it wrong. Maybe Jesus was speaking in Aramaic or Hebrew. I don't know. What I do know is they were baptized confessing their sins Mt. 3:6 which suggests something more than changing one's mind. And John said, 'Bear fruit that befits repentance.' John 3:8 which suggests sincere regret.

 

[MarkT]

I said this:
"Let's be clear here. The Bible NEVER speaks of a believer who quits believing as an unbeliever. They are called apostate, which means former believer. But that doesn't change anything because the new birth, regeneration and becoming a new creature cannot be undone. Or the Bible would specifically say so. And it doesn't."

Simply repeating onself doesn't count as a defense, nor a refutation of another's comments. How about dealing with what I said? Changing one's mind about faith in Christ does NOT remove or take away what God has done to that person. They have been changed spiritually: they are said to be born again, regenerated, are new creatures, are children of God, HAVE eternal life. And there are NO verses that warn that any of these things can be revoked, removed, taken away.

I'm not repeating myself if you understand what I'm saying. Jesus said, He who does not believe is condemned already. If you think it is about changing one's mind you are sorely missing the power of the gospel. The word is literally sown in the heart and it is the power of God that keeps us standing in belief.
John 6:29
Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.

Of course it's a concern. The Bible encouraged believers to remain true to the faith. But NEVER warns of loss of salvation. However, after Jesus ascended to heaven, there were 120 followers. So your statement is in error.

Never warns of loss of salvation? Of course Jesus was concerned they would fall away and lose their salvation. Why do you take things so lightly? Why be concerned? And later he said many would fall away and betray one another and hate one another Mt. 24:10 and then, 'no human being would be saved'. Mt. 24:22

Many of his disciples fell away John 6:66, and the Jews who had believed in him now wanted to stone him. John 8:31-40

No, there's not. The Bible is clear; eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23) and God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).

You keep referring to Romans 6:23. The RSV says, "But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life." Romans 6:22 Then Paul said, "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23

So the free gift is sanctification and its end, eternal life. And I already addressed Romans 11:29

Furthermore, God seals the believer WHEN they believe with the Holy Spirit FOR the day of redemption.
Eph 1:13,14 - 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

We all know what a "promise" is. Does God keep or break His promises? If He breaks a promise, then He is a liar. Is that your view? Because that's where your theology leads.

No it doesn't. God is faithful. The letter to the Ephesians is to the saints who are faithful in Christ. Those who heard the word of truth and believed in Christ were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13 Are you associating the saints with unbelievers? Is the unbeliever who is condemned because he does not believe a saint in your theology?

Titus 1:2 says that God cannot lie. Therefore, He cannot break any of His promises.

Eph 4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

It could not be said more clear: the believer is sealed FOR THE DAY OF REDEMPTION. If this seal could be broken by anything the believer could do, such as ceasing to believe, why didn't Paul say so? All he said was that we need to stop grieving the Holy Spirit. Because we ARE SEALED for the day of redemption.

If this seal can be broken, which is a promise or pledge, then God is a liar. I wouldn't accept that view ever because it is blasphemous to suggest that God would or could lie.

There is no support for your view. In fact, Scripture refutes your view.

Jesus said so. If you don't remain in the vine, you will be cut off from the life of the vine. "He is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. John 15:6

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

 

[FreeGrace]

How is it ok if repent does not mean repent in English?

Because there is a DIFFERENT Greek word for feeling sorry. That's why.

Repent - to feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin. Maybe the Greek scholars got it wrong.

The meaning you ascribe to "repent" is 'metamellamai' in the Greek. Different than metanoeo.

Maybe Jesus was speaking in Aramaic or Hebrew. I don't know.

No maybe's about it. With few exceptions, the NT was written in the Koine Greek.

What I do know is they were baptized confessing their sins Mt. 3:6 which suggests something more than changing one's mind. And John said, 'Bear fruit that befits repentance.' John 3:8 which suggests sincere regret.

As you've admitted, you don't know.