If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?

[Kidron]

What you do with your free gift, determined where you will spend eternity.

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness. Romans 6:16

The "obedience leading to righteous" is the act of your Faith which allows God to give you the "gift of righteousness".
You give God faith and God accepts this and then gives you eternal life, pardon of sin, which is called reconciliation and redemption.
THIS is the blood atonement that IS the gift of righteousness that KEEPS you saved.
God's blood IS the Blood of Jesus who IS God, and His eternal blood has been applied to me, or to any believer and its redeeming power...."there is power power, wonder working POWER, in the BLOOD of the LAMB"......IS the GOSPEL released power that Paul says is the "power of God unto salvation", (Romans 1:16) that is the ACTIVE part , = the eternal part of Salvation that keeps a person sinless and thus keeps a person eternally forgiven = saved.
And that is the "born again" position that creates all believers to be SONS of GOD and eternally established in the family of God.
Its all based on the blood atonement, and never based on our behavior or water baptism.

 

[Kidron]

And to remember; God's gifts are irrevocable!!

Yes.

Romans 11:29

"""For the gifts and calling of God are unchangeable - irrevocable .""

So, Salvation is a FREE GIFT....."the gift of righteousness".

 

[JLB]

Yes.

Romans 11:29

"""For the gifts and calling of God are unchangeable - irrevocable .""

So, Salvation is a FREE GIFT....."the gift of righteousness".

Paul explains in Romans 5

15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.
17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. Romans 5:15-18

The free gift has come to all men.

Will all men be saved?

Paul explains in the next Chapter, Romans 6 -

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

We have been given the gift of righteousness, having it credited to our account, and been given a clean slate and a fresh start with out sins forgiven and a new nature.

If we take this gift and squander it and continue in sin and disobedience, after the Lord so graciously has given us the free gift of righteousness, we can surely expect to reap the wages of sin. DEATH.


Here are instructions in righteousness that are the direct responsibility of each of us who believe:

...do not let sin reign in your mortal body.
...do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin.
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Obeying the instructions in righteousness from the Lord's Apostles who wrote the New Testament, leads to righteousness.

God is not mocked... whatever a man sows, that is what he will reap.

Obedience leading to righteousness.

Sin leading to death.

14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. James 1:14-15



JLB

 

[Kidron]

Paul explains in Romans 5


17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. Romans 5:15-18

JLB

Notice what you wrote.., in vs 17.

"THOSE WHO RECEIVE""
.
Now this is the context of how you are saved.
you receive from God, salvation, based on Him accepting your faith.

Like this..

John 1: 12....But as many as >>RECEIVED JESUS<< , GOD gave to them authority to be children of God--to those believing in His name,

And this is explained by Jesus in the Gospel of John 8: 24 ..... """That is why I (Jesus) told you that you will die [unforgiven and condemned] in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am the Christ [I claim to be], you will die in your sins.”""

Now, do you understand how salvation hinges strictly on BELIEVING and RECEIVING, and nothing else. ???

So, a person HEARS the Gospel, they BELIEVE IT and RECEIVE Jesus as savior, and then GOD accepts their FAITH and in return He GIVES them salvation = born again, = saved for eternity..
And its all BASED on the blood of Jesus being shed as the atoning eternal sacrifice.

See, Salvation is very simple, JLB.
We are sinners who are separated from God and we need to be reconciled.
So, as sin is the DIVIDE, God sends CHRIST to be the BRIDGE.
We cross the bridge by faith, and its done.


K

 

[MarkT]

In fact, that IS the same thing. Your statement is just stunning! The NT was written in Greek. Which is why we call it the Greek NT. There are various English NTs, German NTs, etc, etc.


What in the world does this have to do with anything??


Actually, most of them spoke Koine Greek as well. The word "Koine" means "common".


What proof can be provided to back up this stunning claim?? I never go with assumptions, presumptions, or make believe.


If this were true, there would be evidence for it. Where is it?

There's plenty of evidence here

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Jesus_Hebrew/jesus_hebrew.html

John 20:16
Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rab-bo′ni!” (which means Teacher).
Acts 6:1
Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, the Hellenists murmured against the Hebrews because their widows were neglected in the daily distribution.
Acts 21:40
And when he had given him leave, Paul, standing on the steps, motioned with his hand to the people; and when there was a great hush, he spoke to them in the Hebrew language, saying:
Acts 22:2
And when they heard that he addressed them in the Hebrew language, they were the more quiet. And he said:
Acts 26:14
And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It hurts you to kick against the goads.’
2 Corinthians 11:22
Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I.
Philippians 3:5
circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew born of Hebrews; as to the law a Pharisee,

Why wouldn't the people know and speak their own language? And why would Jesus speak to them in a foreign language? The Lord spoke to Paul in Hebrew. Acts 26:14 Paul spoke to the people in Hebrew and they listened, Acts 21:40 Acts 22:2, suggesting Hebrew was their native language.

I'm sure the gospel was preached in Hebrew first. First to the Jews, and then to the Greeks in their language. But the eyewitness accounts, Matthew and John, were most likely written in Hebrew. Luke could have been written in Greek as it was addressed to a Greek person.

Anyways, the fruit of confession and repentance is a clear conscience. But if you do not regret the things you have done, then what good is repentance? I mean, if you do not fear God and show some remorse, then why should God show you any mercy?

 

[FreeGrace]

The free gift has come to all men.

Will all men be saved?

No, but the question is not relevant. Saying that the free gift "has come to all men" only means that it's available to all men, which I'm sure you would agree with. Paul never said anything about all men HAVING the free gift.

But, because of 11:29, once a person HAS that gift of God, then they have it irrevocably. Because Paul said so.

[/QUOTE]Paul explains in the next Chapter, Romans 6 -

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

We have been given the gift of righteousness, having it credited to our account, and been given a clean slate and a fresh start with out sins forgiven and a new nature.[/QUOTE]
None of this speaks to loss of salvation. Paul was explaining the choices believers have in their Christian walk.

If we take this gift and squander it and continue in sin and disobedience, after the Lord so graciously has given us the free gift of righteousness, we can surely expect to reap the wages of sin. DEATH.

The key is what kind of "death", since the Bible speaks of a number of "deaths": physical, spiritual, sexual, temporal, etc. With discernment and "rightly dividing the Word of Truth", one understands which death is being referred to.

 

[FreeGrace]

I'm sure the gospel was preached in Hebrew first. First to the Jews, and then to the Greeks in their language.

After all the admissions of "I don't know", now you're "sure"?? How did that happen?

But the eyewitness accounts, Matthew and John, were most likely written in Hebrew.

Why "most likely"? Why not just accept what the scholars have already said?

Luke could have been written in Greek as it was addressed to a Greek person.

Lot's of "most likely" and "could have been", all of which is really only assumption or presumption.

 

[JLB]

Why would one make such a statement that has no support from Scripture??

When one HAS the free gift of eternal life, there is nothing they can do with it. It's theirs for eternity.

There is no Scripture that indicates that one can discard or give away or lose that precious gift.


This verse isn't about salvation but spiritual growth.

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

What is Paul waiting for with perseverance?

Can you can honestly answer this question?


JLB

 

[JLB]

None of this speaks to loss of salvation. Paul was explaining the choices believers have in their Christian walk.

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

Sorry Brother, yet again the scriptures prove OSAS to be an unbiblical doctrine.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Notice what you wrote.., in vs 17.

"THOSE WHO RECEIVE""
.
Now this is the context of how you are saved.
you receive from God, salvation, based on Him accepting your faith.

It is how you receive that you don't seem to understand.

It's by faith.

Faith is the substance of what you are hoping for...

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
John 1:12

Those who receive Him have the right to become... not already have become, but the right to become sons of God.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

What is Paul waiting for with perseverance?

Can you can honestly answer this question?


JLB

These questions were already asked in #397. I answered in #400. Here they are again:

I can and have answered EVERY question honestly and Biblically.

He has a confident expectation of going to heaven. iow, he understands that being sealed with the Holy Spirit is a guarantee FOR the day of redemption.

Here, let Paul school you…

Paul clearly taught eternal security in these verses:

Eph 1:13,14 - 13InHim, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Eph 4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Cor 1:22 - who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

So, what has Paul taught here?

First, having believed, we are SEALED IN HIM (union with Christ) with the Holy Spirit of PROMISE, given as a PLEDGE FOR the day of redemption of God's own possession. This seal is a PLEDGE from God.

And consider this verse:
Heb 6:18 - so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us.

So, for one to accept your view of loss of salvation, 2 things are required:

1. Either prove by exegesis that Eph 1:13,144:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 do NOT teach eternal security, or

2. Accept that God DOES break His promises and pledges, which makes Him a liar. Even though Scripture SAYS that it is impossible for God to lie.

Please feel free to refute this with proper exegesis.

 

[FreeGrace]

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

Sorry Brother, yet again the scriptures prove OSAS to be an unbiblical doctrine.
JLB

How anyone could think that Rom 6:16 is about the possibility of loss of salvation is baffling to me. Esp since Paul defined justifiation and eternal life as gifts of God and then wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Paul's point in 6:16 is that each believer has choices; of whom to obey, whether sin, or obedience. And there are consequences of each. The death here is cessation of fellowship, not eternal death. And righteousness here refers to progressive sanctification, or what most believers call spiritual growth.

 

[FreeGrace]

IJohn 1:12

Those who receive Him have the right to become... not already have become, but the right to become sons of God.
JLB

Is there any reason to reject Gal 3:26 which says that we ARE NOW the sons of God?

 

[JLB]

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Yes sons of God through faith.

We have the hope of sonship.

Those who have this hope, purify themselves, just as He is pure.

1 John 3:3

Those who have their own "gospel" must change the meanings of words when the scriptures flatly contradict their "doctrine".

Hope is what we have, when look forward to, such as a promise from someone we trust.


Forwe were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

What is Paul waiting for with perseverance?

Can you can honestly answer this question?


JLB

 

[JLB]

How anyone could think that Rom 6:16 is about the possibility of loss of salvation is baffling to me. Esp since Paul defined justifiation and eternal life as gifts of God and then wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

The wages of sin is death!
The gift of God is eternal life.

Whose slave you are, determines your outcome.

Whoever you present yourself to obey.

It's your choice what you will do with the gift of God, which is relationship (knowing) Him.


JLB

 

[Kidron]

But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

What is Paul waiting for with perseverance?

JLB

What is Paul waiting for?
Try reading verse 23, as you skipped it and posted 24 and 25.
Had you read 23, then you would have understood what Paul is waiting for in vs 24 and 24..
But on the other hand, the commentary that you are using also left out vs 23, and that is why you left it out also.

Romans 8:23
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING FOR the adoption, to wit, THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY..""""


That what Paul is waiting for, JLB.
He's waiting for the redemption of his physical Body.
Thats the "resurrection Body:" that every believer will eventually receive.
See, right now we are born again in the Spirit, in the inner man, but one day our BODY is redeemed, and we get a new one.
And that is what Pauls is waiting for.......verse 23.

 

[JLB]

These questions were already asked in #397. I answered in #400. Here they are again:

I can and have answered EVERY question honestly and Biblically.

He has a confident expectation of going to heaven. iow, he understands that being sealed with the Holy Spirit is a guarantee FOR the day of redemption.

For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

What is Paul waiting for with perseverance?

IOW, what is Paul hoping for, the very thing that he does not yet see, which is the subject of this verse.

For we were saved in this hope, but...

Paul is describing being saved by faith.

Paul is using the definition of faith, in his explanation.

Faith is the substance of the thing you hope for, and the evidence of things not seen.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1

This word in Romans 8:24, seen, is the same Greek word as used in Hebrews 11:1

Paul explains that we were saved in this hope... as we were saved by faith.

Faith clearly means we don't yet have what we are hoping for, nor do we see it.

What is it in verse 24 that Paul says he is hoping for, and does not yet see...?

Salvation, of course, as he says... we were saved [past tense] in this hope, BUT...

But hope that is seen, realized, manifested, obtained is not hope... for who still hopes for what he has obtained, realized or seen?

Paul say that we are all waiting for the salvation that we are hoping for and have no yet obtained, with perseverance.

What we have now is faith... NOW faith is...


No faith = No salvation.

What can be lost is your faith, for we were saved by faith.



JLB

 

[JLB]

What is Paul waiting for?
Try reading verse 23, as you skipped it and posted 24 and 25.
Had you read 23, then you would have understood what Paul is waiting for in vs 24 and 24..
But on the other hand, the commentary that you are using also left out vs 23, and that is why you left it out also.

Romans 8:23
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING FOR the adoption, to wit, THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY..""""


That what Paul is waiting for, JLB.
He's waiting for the redemption of his physical Body.
Thats the "resurrection Body:" that every believer will eventually receive.
See, right now we are born again in the Spirit, in the inner man, but one day our BODY is redeemed, and we get a new one.
And that is what Pauls is waiting for.......verse 23.

Yes, to be further clothed, with a glorified, immortal body that will never die.

Do you have yours Now, or do you have it by faith, which means you are hoping for it?


JLB

 

[MarkT]

Yes.

Romans 11:29

"""For the gifts and calling of God are unchangeable - irrevocable .""

So, Salvation is a FREE GIFT....."the gift of righteousness".

Irrevocable means the call and the gifts can not be cancelled. So Paul is saying God will keep his end of the covenant. But that doesn't mean men will keep faith with God. Abide in Christ and keep his commandments or lose your soul. Those who fall away can not be restored.
Hebrews 6:4
For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

They will be destroyed. Many will break faith and fall away just as they did in the wilderness.

 

[JLB]

When one HAS the free gift of eternal life, there is nothing they can do with it. It's theirs for eternity.

We are given relationship with God, (eternal life), which is to say reconciled to Him, through our faith in Jesus Christ... If we continue in that faith!

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, Colossians 1:21-23

If we are not moved away from the hope of the Gospel.

The hope of the Gospel is the salvation of our soul.

The hope of the Gospel is becoming a son of God... That we might be counted worthy to attain that age and the resurrection, having become like the angels, being sons of God.
Luke 20:35-36

For now we rejoice in our salvation and being counted worthy to know Him and be reconciled to Him.

As well as a healthy fear of the Lord, in which we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, loving our Lord with all our heart and serving His people with a grateful heart, while keeping ourselves unspotted by the world and growing in grace.

JLB