If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?

[JLB]

When Jesus said not a dot would pass from the law, he was referring to the law given through Moses. Before Moses, the law was unknown,

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:5

Abraham walked in obedience to the commandments and laws of the Lord, 430 years before the law of Moses was added, because he received them by faith, directly from the same Lord, who became flesh and taught His disciples and us.

JLB

 

[MarkT]

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” Genesis 26:5

Abraham walked in obedience to the commandments and laws of the Lord, 430 years before the law of Moses was added, because he received them by faith, directly from the same Lord, who became flesh and taught His disciples and us.

JLB

The law of Moses was not added to another law. There was no written code at the time, but like Gen. 26:5 says, Abraham obeyed his voice and he kept his commandments and his laws.

 

[MarkT]

Of course there were men before Moses who obeyed the LORD. Men like Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were righteous in their day.

Jesus was referring to the law of Moses when he said, 'Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets.' Mt. 5:17, and when he said,'For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Mt. 5:18, and when he said, 'Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Mt. 5:19, and when he said, 'Did not Moses give you the law? Yet none of you keeps the law. Why do you seek to kill me?” John 7:19

The law of Moses was not added on to any previous law. When the lawyer asked Jesus what is the great commandment in the law, he was referring to the law of Moses. When Jesus said, '“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.” Mt. 22:37-40, he was referring to the law of Moses.

Are you suggesting there was another law called the law of sin and death and Moses was an add on?

 

[dianegcook]

Thank you too dear Sister dianegcook. There's a future coming where we'll know for sure huh?

Yes, Amen:yes

 

[JLB]

The law of Moses was not added to another law. There was no written code at the time, but like Gen. 26:5 says, Abraham obeyed his voice and he kept his commandments and his laws.

The law of Moses was most certainly added brother.

Please read what the scripture actually says.

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

The law was "added" to the Abrahamic Covenant.

And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. Galatians 3:17

...the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later,

The law of Moses was added 430 years later to the Abrahamic Covenant.

The law of Moses came into existence 430 after the Abrahamic Covenant was made between Abraham and the Lord Jesus.

The law of sin and death was transgressed in the Garden by Adam, and spread sin to all men.

The law of Moses didn't come until 430 years after the Abrahamic Covenant, and was added to it temporarily until the Seed should come.


JLB

 

[MarkT]

The law of Moses was most certainly added brother.

Please read what the scripture actually says.

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

The law was "added" to the Abrahamic Covenant.

And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. Galatians 3:17

...the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later,

The law of Moses was added 430 years later to the Abrahamic Covenant.

The law of Moses came into existence 430 after the Abrahamic Covenant was made between Abraham and the Lord Jesus.

The law of sin and death was transgressed in the Garden by Adam, and spread sin to all men.

The law of Moses didn't come until 430 years after the Abrahamic Covenant, and was added to it temporarily until the Seed should come.


JLB

Added in this case means written down or given, as Paul said, 'if a law had been given which could make alive' Gal. 3:21 Nowhere does Paul suggest the law was added to the covenant. Two different things.

 

[MarkT]

Anyways, the law which was given through Moses is the law of sin and death. So by calling it the law of sin and death Paul is just describing the effect of sin.

The scripture says Abraham kept God's laws. Gen. 26:5

Doesn't that suggest God's laws were from the beginning? Indeed the two great commandments - love God and do unto others. Remember Cain slew Abel and he was punished by God.

Mt. 22:35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”

 

[JLB]

Added in this case means written down or given, as Paul said, 'if a law had been given which could make alive' Gal. 3:21 Nowhere does Paul suggest the law was added to the covenant. Two different things.

Sorry, but you don't get to explain away the scriptures, when the context is so clear.

17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:17-19

The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, 430 years later... until the Seed should come.

By saying added, the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was a "part" of something greater, which is the Abrahamic Covenant.

By saying "until", the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was temporary.

On the other hand, the law of sin and death, that Adam violated in the Garden, is eternal, as Lucifer also violated this law and was cast out of heaven.

Law of Moses - Temporary

Law of sin and death - Eternal

Two different laws.


JLB

 

[MarkT]

Sorry, but you don't get to explain away the scriptures, when the context is so clear.

17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:17-19

The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, 430 years later... until the Seed should come.

By saying added, the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was a "part" of something greater, which is the Abrahamic Covenant.

By saying "until", the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was temporary.

On the other hand, the law of sin and death, that Adam violated in the Garden, is eternal, as Lucifer also violated this law and was cast out of heaven.

Law of Moses - Temporary

Law of sin and death - Eternal

Two different laws.


JLB

Nope. You're adding the law to the promise, which is exactly what Paul wants to keep separate when he says, "is the law then against the promises of God?" Gal.3:21 and he said, "Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?" Gal. 3:2 Is the inheritance by law or by promise?

We can always go back to see if the fruit of the tree is any good.

If there is no law, then there is no judgment. How is God going to judge the world if the law is abolished? God can not go against himself - the law can not be abolished, not even a dot of it, until heaven and earth pass away, which, looking around, I can see they have not passed away yet. Paul tells us, 'All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. Ro. 2:12 The law is the law of Moses. It's the law of sin and death.

The law was our temporary custodian until we were set free of the law Ro. 8:2, having been born again, but that does not mean the law was abolished. Nope, heaven and earth will pass away before the law is abolished. Mt. 5:18 It's only the effect of sin, death, death has no power over those who have been set free.
“O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?” 1 Corinthians 15:55

 

[JLB]

Nope. You're adding the law to the promise,

Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not!

The Lord who made Covenant with Abraham, added the law, not me.

16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. Galatians 3:16-21


JLB

 

[MarkT]

15 To give a human example, brethren: no one annuls even a man’s will, or adds to it, once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many; but, referring to one, “And to your offspring,” which is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. Gal. 3:15-18 RSV

What do you think JLB? The RSV refers to the covenant with Abraham saying no one adds to a covenant once it has been ratified. So how can you say the law was added to the covenant?

I'm not disputing the fact it was added. I'm just saying added means it came later.

 

[JLB]

I'm not disputing the fact it was added. I'm just saying added means it came later.

Yes, the law of Moses came 430 years later, and was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, until the Seed should come.


JLB

 

[MarkT]

NKJV
Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. Gal. 3:15

I asked what do you think JLB. No one adds to a covenant once it is ratified.

 

[JLB]

NKJV
Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. Gal. 3:15

I asked what do you think JLB. No one adds to a covenant once it is ratified.

15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man's covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.Galatians 3:15-21

Paul deals with this issue as he says... Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not!

The word he uses is verse 15 means; to ordain besides, to add something to what has been ordained.
In another words, to add besides means to change what is ordained.

What was ordained?

God ordained for Abraham and his descendants to become a great nation.

This promise to Abraham was based on a condition.

Let's review what God told Abraham -

1 Now the Lord had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

Genesis 12:1-3

Here God promises to Abraham to bless him and make from him a great nation.

Abraham Obeyed.

4 So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him, and Lot went with him. And Abram was seventy-five years old when he departed from Haran.
5 Then Abram took Sarai his wife and Lot his brother's son, and all their possessions that they had gathered, and the people whom they had acquired in Haran, and they departed to go to the land of Canaan. So they came to the land of Canaan.
6 Abram passed through the land to the place of Shechem, as far as the terebinth tree of Moreh. And the Canaanites were then in the land.
Genesis 12:4-6


God gives Abraham another promise.


7 Then the Lord appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." And there he built an altar to the Lord, who had appeared to him. Genesis 12:7

The Abrahamic Covenant -

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly." Genesis 17:1-2

God renews the Promises and backs them with a Covenant -

3 Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying:
4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations.
5 No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations.

6 I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you.
7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.
8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." Genesis 17:3-8

The Covenant requirements for the promises to be fulfilled -

And God said to Abraham: "As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. Genesis 17:9

God renews the Covenant Promises to Abraham's son, Isaac -

1 There was a famine in the land, besides the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went to Abimelech king of the Philistines, in Gerar.
2 Then the Lord appeared to him and said: "Do not go down to Egypt; live in the land of which I shall tell you.
3 Dwell in this land, and I will be with you and bless you; for to you and your descendants I give all these lands, and I will perform the oath which I swore to Abraham your father.
4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed;
5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."
Genesis 26:1-5

The children of Israel however, transgressed the Covenant and so the law was added, so that the Lord could continue to bless them with the blessings of Abraham, and to be an enemy to their enemies, SO THAT they could conquer the the giants and drive them out of the promised land, with God's Blessing upon them, and become a great nation.

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions,...

It's all about fulfilling His word to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob [Israel], so that the Promises to the Seed would be fulfilled.

The law didn't add [change what was ordained Strong's # 1928] or promised, but was added [Strong's # 4369] joined to, with the idea of completing what was ordained.

That's why Paul says - Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not!

Two different Greek words that are used by Paul in Galatians 3, [add and added] with two different meanings.



JLB

 

[MarkT]

I think he means the law was added in time. To say it was added to the covenant, I guess it depends on what you mean by added whether you mean in time or in word/content. I see the law as being a curse and the covenant as being a blessing. Adding the law to the covenant would be like adding a curse to a blessing. In effect you are creating a conflict - Do the works of the law. Don't do the works of the law. I suppose you could say it was added for a purpose. Again in time.

Paul doesn't specifically say the law was added to the covenant. Indeed he asks if the law opposes the promises of God. Gal. 3:21 But he does reconcile the two when he says, "But the scripture consigned all things to sin, that what was promised to faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Gal. 3:22

If you mean the law was added for its purpose to effect the promises of God, I can go along with that.

But again we have to go back to the fruit of the tree. You said the law was abolished. How was it abolished if it still serves its purpose consigning all men to sin?

 

[MarkT]

The law didn't add [change what was ordained Strong's # 1928] or promised, but was added [Strong's # 4369] joined to, with the idea of completing what was ordained.

I think it's added on top of, not added to. Adding to has the connotation of adding words to a previously ratified covenant.

 

[JLB]

I think he means the law was added in time.

Yes.

430 years later to be exact.

And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. Galatians 3:17

JLB

 

[MarkT]

Yes.

430 years later to be exact.

And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. Galatians 3:17

JLB

Didn't God know the law before he gave it to Moses?

 

[MarkT]

We just ask for his free gift of salvation and receive it. Who here thinks if you ask someone to give you their brand new Lamborghini as a gift is working for it? Who here thinks the person asking for a Lamborghini as a gift worked for it and earned it when he received the lamborghini for free, to keep forever! Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. For whosoever shall call upon THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be saved” (Romans 10:13) Call here is the word meaning believe. Feel free to explain why you feel you earned, or worked so hard for that brand spanking new lamborghini after you asked for it, and was freely given to you!

How do you know it was handed to you? God didn't hand Noah the ark. God gave Noah instructions and Noah had to build it himself. Same thing applies here.

 

[JLB]

Didn't God know the law before he gave it to Moses?

Can you find the commandment in the law of Moses that says; of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."


JLB