We know that the gift of God, which is eternal life (Rom 6:23) was "handed to us" is because it is a FREE gift. How can one work for or earn something that is FREE? Not possible.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?
- Thread starter llama
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God "hands this gift of eternal life" to the whole world, as it is available to all.
However, it is only to those who receive Him, that are given the right to become sons of God.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12-13 KJV
Those that have been born of God, have been given the right, or power to become sons of God.
JLB
God's gift of His Son is offered freely to the world.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
Only those in the world who receive Him, are given the power to become sons of God.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12-13
Once a person is born of God, then they have the power to become, sons of God.
Because someone has the power to become a son of God, does not mean they have already become, it means they have been granted the right or the power to become a son of God.
The right to become, denotes the process, not the end result.
JLB
Not in what was given to Moses, obviously, since man had already transgressed the commandment to not eat of the fruit of the tree. This was before man even knew good and evil. But I'd go even further and say even before man was created, God was and therefore his law was.
Let's say a man wanted to get a divorce. Was divorce lawful before the law came? No. Jesus was asked, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” 8 He said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery.” Mt. 19:3-9
From the beginning he made them male and female suggesting divorce was against God's law from the beginning.
The Serpent was a murderer from the beginning John 8:44, suggesting murder was against God's law way before the law not to kill was given to Moses, and the Serpent or Satan was a liar and the father of all lies suggesting lying has always been against God's law even before the law to not lie was given to Moses.
Genesis 26:5
because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.” This was before Moses was given the law.
God's free gift of eternal life is freely extended to the world.
The way it is received is by repenting and believing the message of the Kingdom.
Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at Hand.
The message is the seed, the word of God.
Once a person receives the seed, then they have the right or the power to become sons of God.
We are not sons of God, because we receive the seed, anymore than a kernel of corn, suddenly becomes a stalk of corn, because it's planted in the ground.
12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13
Likewise, Jesus teaches about those who do not remain connected in relationship to Him, [which is the very definition of eternal life], have lost the source of eternal life that flows from Him.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
We should teach the truth, that we are to remain connected in Him, which allows His life to flow into us and become fruitful.
Those who believe for a while, then turn away from Him, no longer have the eternal life they once did, when they were connected to Him in relationship.
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:2
In Me = Eternal Life
Taken away from Him = No more Eternal Life
JLB
Yes, Abraham walked with God and kept His laws, 430 years before the law was added.
Abraham kept God's laws and commandments, not the law of Moses.
JLB
brother Paul
Member
A gift is never asked for, it is given from love or obligation. If from obligation it negates grace.
The error is in the claim that eternal life can be taken away. Paul refuted that notion by defining eternal life as a free gift in Rom 6:23 and then in 11:29 stating that God's gifts, which include both justification and eternal life, are irrevocable.
Your view is not supported by Scripture, but only by assumption and presumption.
Paul never said any such thing.
This is man's error.
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29
No mention of eternal life in this verse.
In addition, the Greek word for without repentance or irrevocable does not mean "take back".
Strong's Number: 278 - Ametameletos - without repentance
Definition
- not repentant of, unregretted
Finally, the context of Romans 11 clearly indicates that some were broken off through unbelief, which is what Jesus taught.
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:20-22
Branches in Him can if fact be removed.
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2
How can a branch in Him, that is later removed from Him, sustain itself with the eternal life it received from the Vine?
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
The warning from all of the New Testament writers is to continue to believe, to continue to have faith in Christ unto the end.
But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13
JLB
You keep repeating yourself in spite of the clear FACT that Paul defined eternal life as a gift of God: Rom 3:23. And that he wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable: Rom 11:29. The link is unmistakable.
What you've failed to prove is your view that Rom 11:29 refers to something other than eternal life, since Paul didn't define anything in ch 11 as a gift of God.
No need to repeat himself, since Paul had already defined both justification and eternal life as gifts of God.
Are your credentials so much better than the scholars who DID translate ametamelotos as "irrevocable"?
Anyway, to be "without repentance" means to be without regret. So, iow, once God gives the gift of eternal life, He does NOT regret it. Therefore, He CANNOT take it back.
If He ever did, then that would demonstrate that He did in fact regret giving the gift in the first place.
So, the word "without repentance" is EQUIVALENT to "irrevocable".
You've failed to demonstrate otherwise.
Because there is NO MENTION of "gift" in ch 11, your analysis is flawed and your assumptions are wrong.
What is the 'gift' in ch 11 that Paul was referring to in v.29?
No mention of gift here. So none of this refers to v.29. Only God's calling and gifts are mentioned in v.29.
Correct. Which has nothing to do with loss of salvation.
The context of Romans 11 clearly indicates that some were broken off through unbelief, which is what Jesus taught.
20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:20-22
Branches in Him can if fact be removed.
This is what Romsns 11 teaches.
What you have attempted to do is take a part of a verse here and another part of a verse there, and stitch together a "man made Frankenstein" doctrine and attempt to pass it off as scripture.
However when examined in the light of the words of Jesus and Paul, and Peter, it is clearly proven to be "man made".
JLB
Eternal life is a relationship.
Knowing God. John 17:3
This relationship is defined by Jesus, and likened to branches that remained connected to the Vine.
The branches are "in Him", the they are removed from Him.
Unless you have a scripture that shows we have eternal life apart from Jesus Christ, then OSAS is man made.
JLB
Kidron
Member
Ok, then try 1 John 5:11-13
JBL ,
Let us know if "eternal" is mentioned in the verse that tells you WHO eternal life IS, and how you can know you have it right now.
1 John 5:11-13:
11... And the testimony is this: God has >given us< = eternal life [we already possess it], and this life is in His Son [resulting in our spiritual completeness, and eternal companionship with Him].
12.. He who has the Son [by accepting Him as Lord and Savior] HAS the life [that is eternal]; he who does not have the Son of God [by personal faith] does not have the life.
This Is Written That You May Know
13.. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God [which represents all that Jesus Christ is and does], so that you will KNOW [with settled and absolute knowledge] that you [already] have eternal life.
-------------------------
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So, Eternal life is someone.
Did you get that?
Its not an obtuse idea of "time".
Its a PERSON, its JESUS, and if you have Him, then you HAVE Eternal Life.
Done deal.
Finished word.
Yes Eternal life is in His Son, which is why this same John has defined for us eternal as knowing God and Jesus Christ.
Just as a branch can not receive life from the vine if it does not remain connected in relationship to the Vine, so we can not continue to receive eternal life from Jesus if we do not remain connected to Him.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
The branches were in Him, then they were cast out, and were removed from Him.
JLB
And so? Where is there ANY mention of "gifts" in ch 11, other than v.29? Since there isn't, one HAS TO go back to where Paul DID define what he meant by 'gifts'. And we find that in 3:24, and 5:15,16,17 for justification and 6:23 for eternal life. Irrefutable.
Nothing here about gifts.
Which has nothing to do with the gift of eternal life, which is IRREVOCABLE. Which is irrefutable.
One is free to call God's Word whatever floats their boat. But I wouldn't go out in a thunder storm if I did such a thing.
Nonsense. Paul was crystal clear about what he meant by 'gifts' before he wrote Rom 11:29. But one is free to reject the Word of God. But at their own peril.
Once again, there is no mention of 'gifts' in ch 11 until one gets to v.29. And the immediately prior use of that word is found in 6:23 where Paul defined the gift of God as eternal life.
The context is about service, which is a calling. God calls people to service. That's why Paul included "the calling" in v.29. That's what ch 11 is about. And Paul included what he had ALREADY DEFINED AS 'GIFT' in that verse as well.If the context is not about Salvation, then verse 29 is not about salvation.
2
JLB
So, both God's calling and God's gifts are IRREVOCABLE. Which is IRREFUTABLE.