If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?

[LovethroughDove]

Wages of sin is death, alive in Christ.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There is so much confusion about what the "gift" is. The gift is Jesus doing what he did. He gives his Holy Spirit to believers to help them conquer sin. Can you ignore the Holy Spirit once it is given to you? I haven't, but I get the feeling that people do.

Hebrews 6:4-7 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

I get the feeling they aren't comfortable with being a slave to righteousness.
Romans 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

If you make a mockery of the gift given to you, you are subjecting Jesus to public disgrace. Don't just receive the gift and, stay the same. Our will, will conform to the image of Christ..........if you let him and if you want to.

 

[Drew]

If you make a mockery of the gift given to you, you are subjecting Jesus to public disgrace. Don't just receive the gift and, stay the same. Our will, will conform to the image of Christ..........if you let him and if you want to.

If I understand your entire post properly, I agree with you. And I would suggest that you carefully weigh how people make their arguments here; I think there are a lot of implausible rationalizations - such as the oft-repeated assertion that Paul does not believe what he writes in Romans 2:6-7 - used to defend positions that posters are strongly committed to.

 

[JLB]

No, it's SAD that I you've ignored all the Scriptures that I HAVE posted.

You posted your opinion as seen from the last post, as it contained no scripture.

 

[JLB]

Those who have believed in Christ are said to be "in Christ", sealed with the Holy Spirit. We can't seal ourselves, nor can we unseal ourselves. God alone has that authority. And He has TOLD us that this sealing is a PROMISE AND PLEDGE toward what? Our redemption. That's what. Guaranteed by the promise of God Himself.

Those who are in Christ because they received Him, now have the right to become, sons of God.
John 1:12

These who have received Him and are connected to Him in relationship, enjoy the eternal life that flows from Him.

Those that do not remain connected to Him, no longer have the benefit of receiving the live giving flow of eternal life, that is reserved for believers.

These that were "in Him" have been removed because of unbelief and are gathered up and cast into the fire, where they are burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

In Him = Eternal Life

Broken off = thrown into the fire



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Wages of sin is death, alive in Christ.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There is so much confusion about what the "gift" is.

No, there is no confusion about what Paul meant by 'gift'. He clearly defined what he meant in 3:24 and 5:15,16,17 referring to justification and 6:23 referring to eternal life, the verse just quoted in your post. How are these verses confusing?

The problem with some posters is simply accepting at true what these verses say.

The gift is Jesus doing what he did. He gives his Holy Spirit to believers to help them conquer sin. Can you ignore the Holy Spirit once it is given to you? I haven't, but I get the feeling that people do.

I don't find this teaching in Scripture. The gift is not the Holy Spirit. He was promised by Jesus, but was never described as a gift being given by God. Not in John's gospel, or any where else. And yes, the Holy Spirit has been given to help believers conquer sin.

Hebrews 6:4-7 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

I get the feeling they aren't comfortable with being a slave to righteousness.

The audience in Hebrews were returning to animal sacrifice (return to the Law). Animal sacrifice was for forgiveness of sin. But since Christ already died for all sin, animal sacrifice was not only obsolete but now worthless.

Romans 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

And the 7 verses that precede v.18 clearly indicate that believers make a choice of to whom they will "present themselves" as slaves to obey: whether to sin which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness.

If you make a mockery of the gift given to you, you are subjecting Jesus to public disgrace. Don't just receive the gift and, stay the same. Our will, will conform to the image of Christ..........if you let him and if you want to.

Amen!

 

[FreeGrace]

You posted your opinion as seen from the last post, as it contained no scripture.

Amazingly wrong. Again. But everyone is able to see clearly how one must ignore and dodge the verses I've provided which your view cannot explain even explain away.

So, one must just act as if they weren't there. But they are there. For all to see.

But, just so that your claim is false, here are the verses again, from post #134:

In fact, to be "in Christ" is just another way to understand ETERNAL SECURITY. How so? Glad you asked.

13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph 1

We note in v.13 the ORDER; having believed, you (the believer) were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit.

And this is PROMISE, or PLEDGE. From God. Who NEVER breaks His promises.

In v.14 we read that this sealing by the Holy Spirit is a PLEDGE/PROMISE of our inheritance. Then Paul makes it real clear: "with a view to the redemption of God's OWN POSSESSION.

So, all who are "in Christ" have been sealed, and have been promised redemption as God's own possession.

There is NO evidence from Scripture that this sealing with the Holy Spirit can be broken. Certainly God's promises cannot be broken.

But that's not all.

Eph 4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

What can this mean, if not ETERNAL SECURITY? Please answer.

There's more…
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge. 2 Cor 1:22

How can this be anything other than ETERNAL SECURITY? Please answer.

And this:
Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. 2 Cor 5:5

Again, how can this be anything other than ETERNAL SECURITY? Please answer.

I've provided very clear verses about our ETERNAL SECURITY, unless someone can refute my view of these verses and provide a solid exegetical explanation which refutes my view of them.

Those who have believed in Christ are said to be "in Christ", sealed with the Holy Spirit. We can't seal ourselves, nor can we unseal ourselves. God alone has that authority. And He has TOLD us that this sealing is a PROMISE AND PLEDGE toward what? Our redemption. That's what. Guaranteed by the promise of God Himself.

Those who reject these verses as clearly stated are rejecting the very promise of God.

Will there be another false charge that I provide no verses? There are 5 that have been repeatedly ignored.

And questions that haven't been answered or addressed.

I think everyone who reads these posts will see why they haven't been.

 

[FreeGrace]

Those who are in Christ because they received Him, now have the right to become, sons of God.
John 1:12

These who have received Him and are connected to Him in relationship, enjoy the eternal life that flows from Him.

Those that do not remain connected to Him, no longer have the benefit of receiving the live giving flow of eternal life, that is reserved for believers.

These that were "in Him" have been removed because of unbelief and are gathered up and cast into the fire, where they are burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
In Him = Eternal Life
Broken off = thrown into the fireJLB

How about answering my questions from post #146 which were first asked in post #134? And dealing with the verses that I not only cited but quoted?

Here they are: Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5.

 

[JLB]

How about answering my questions from post #146 which were first asked in post #134? And dealing with the verses that I not only cited but quoted?

Here they are: Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5.

Please write one scripture at a time to discuss the aspects of it and how it relates to OSAS.

JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

I don't find this teaching in Scripture. The gift is not the Holy Spirit. He was promised by Jesus, but was never described as a gift being given by God. Not in John's gospel, or any where else. And yes, the Holy Spirit has been given to help believers conquer sin.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is our gift. That is why Jesus died in flesh. The Holy Spirit could not enter flesh until Jesus came into the world.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[JLB]

In fact, to be "in Christ" is just another way to understand ETERNAL SECURITY.

Jesus teaches us, there are those who are in fact in Him, but they are removed from Him, and thrown into the fire.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Jesus teaches that the person, described as a branch, must abide, "remain connected to Him"or be in danger of being gathered and throw into the fire.

Here are two unalterable truths contained in this verse.

Abide In Him = The Eternal life that is in Jesus Christ flows into the one connected to Him.

Removed from Him; cast out = The Eternal life in Christ, does not flow into the one disconnected from Him, and the result is they are thrown into the fire and burned.


JLB

 

[Kidron]

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

JLB

The reason you can know this is not talking about a Christian, is for one.. >There is no cross yet, Jesus has not died yet, and there is no one 'in Christ" yet, as no one is "born again" yet.
So, the other point is this....>If you will do a bible verse check, you'll find that the word "They", is found as "men".

Now you have to think about this..

If as you are saying, "people fall out of Christ", then why would men be casting Christians into the fire.?
Does this make good biblical sense to you, or anyone?
I kinda doubt it.

So, who are the men?, and what is the fire????

You are saying that according to this verse, that CHRISTIANS, who are not even on the scene yet in that verse, as Christ is not DEAD YET, so no one is IN CHRIST yet, ........that men are gathering "Christians" who aren't even there yet, when Christ said what you posted, ..... are being thrown into a fire?
What fire?

So, i'd like for you to tell us all who the men are, what the fire is, and why can they throw a Christian into it, when there is NO CROSS YET, Jesus has not died yet, and no one is born again yet, and no one is "in Christ" yet.

 

[JLB]

The reason you can know this is not talking about a Christian, is for one.. >There is no cross yet, Jesus has not died yet, and there is no one 'in Christ" yet, as no one is "born again" yet.
So, the other point is this....>If you will do a bible verse check, you'll find that the word "They", is found as "men".

Now you have to think about this..

If as you are saying, "people fall out of Christ", then why would men be casting Christians into the fire.?
Does this make good biblical sense to you, or anyone?
I kinda doubt it.

So, who are the men?, and what is the fire????

You are saying that according to this verse, that CHRISTIANS, who are not even on the scene yet in that verse, as Christ is not DEAD YET, so no one is IN CHRIST yet, ........that men are gathering "Christians" who aren't even there yet, when Christ said what you posted, ..... are being thrown into a fire?
What fire?

So, i'd like for you to tell us all who the men are, what the fire is, and why can they throw a Christian into it, when there is NO CROSS YET, Jesus has not died yet, and no one is born again yet, and no one is "in Christ" yet.

Ok. I see.

So any words of Jesus spoken before the cross, don't apply to us.



JLB

 

[JLB]

So, i'd like for you to tell us all who the men are, what the fire is,

The responsibility of gathering those that are to be cast into the fire, whether the tares, or the hypocrites or those who have turned away from Him in unbelief, are the angels.

The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:41-42


49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
Matthew 13:49-50


JLB

 

[Kidron]

[QUOTE="JLB, post: 1131478, member: 2772"
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:41-42

JLB[/QUOTE]

Consider that the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" is reserved for those who Christ "never knew", so, this cant be referring to a Son of God (Christian).

 

[JLB]

[QUOTE="JLB, post: 1131478, member: 2772"
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:41-42

JLB

Consider that the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" is reserved for those who Christ "never knew", so, this cant be referring to a Son of God (Christian).[/QUOTE]

Yes, in this parable, the "tares" are the sons of the wicked one.

Here is my post again, please read all of it.

The responsibility of gathering those that are to be cast into the fire, whether the tares, or the hypocrites or those who have turned away from Him in unbelief, are the angels.

The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:41-42


49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
Matthew 13:49-50


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Please write one scripture at a time to discuss the aspects of it and how it relates to OSAS.

JLB

Nope. They all go together, as they all speak of the SAME THING. I've already quoted these verses as teaching eternal security.

Your challenge is to take each verse (one post at a time if that would be easier for you) and exegete it to show that it doesn't teach eternal security.

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes, the Holy Spirit is our gift. That is why Jesus died in flesh. The Holy Spirit could not enter flesh until Jesus came into the world.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

OK

 

[FreeGrace]

Jesus teaches us, there are those who are in fact in Him, but they are removed from Him, and thrown into the fire.

Why would any reasonable person think that Jesus was speaking literally??

 

[WIP]

Okay, let's knock off the sarcasm and accusations. Claiming others are ignoring your posts and making false accusations is inappropriate and its been happening too much. It's entirely possible that you are merely being misunderstood or you yourself are unwilling to recognize that you yourself may be in error. Let's keep it civil or I'll have to borrow reba's .

 

[Kidron]

Yes, in this parable, the "tares" are the sons of the wicked one.
Matthew 13:49-50
JLB

----------------------------------------------------------------


Good.
Thank you for agreeing that the "sons of the wicked ones" are Christ rejectors who were never saved.
Exactly.
I had thought you were trying to find a way to lose your salvation., which is impossible.


K