If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?

[cgaviria]

Do you believe The Holy Spirit is God?

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:19

and again

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:26


JLB

Indeed holy spirit is God. Yet is in subjection to Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is in subjection the the Father.

 

[Jim Parker]

If you don't obey God then you haven't been truly drawn to God. Anyone who is drawn by God first hears the word, then believes, then repents from all sin, then humbles himself with the selling of all properties and all unneeded possessions, then gives alms to the poor, then receives holy spirit which causes him to sin no more since holy spirit removes all evil desires that are the root of sin, then becomes a laborer of the great harvest which is spreading the gospel. Every believer who is drawn does all these things, and if he is indeed missing on any of these things he hasn't truly been drawn.

Thank you for your opinion.

 

[JLB]

Indeed holy spirit is God. Yet is in subjection to Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is in subjection the the Father.

Thank you for your answer.

I asked because you leave out "The"
and you don't capitalize.

Thanks.

JLB

 

[cgaviria]

Thank you for your answer.

I asked because you leave out "The"
and you don't capitalize.

Thanks.

JLB

This is deliberate, because holy spirit is not only one being, but many holy spirits, hence why this verse,

The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets.(1 Corinthians 14:32 [NIV])

The Greek word "pneumata" is the same word used here,

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation? (Hebrews 1:14 [NIV])

Holy spirits are indeed angels, who are given charge to inhabit the bodies of believers, each believer receives one distinct holy spirit, to guide him, teach him, cater to his specific needs, and to sanctify him. This type of holy spirit, that also doesn't forgive sins, is the same type that guided the Hebrews into the promised land,

Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him. (Exodus 21:20-21 [ESV])

And in Isaiah we read concerning this angel that was a holy spirit,

In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them; in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them. (Isaiah 63:9-10 [ESV])

So indeed this angel that was a holy spirit, guided them, but was a type of a greater guidance to come, a guidance that was given by the same type of holy spirit, but from within the body.

 

[JLB]

So indeed this angel that was a holy spirit, guided them, but was a type of a greater guidance to come, a guidance that was given by the same type of holy spirit, but from within the body.

This was The Angel of the Lord, who was the Pre-incarnate Jesus Christ.

Three different scriptures referring to three different manifestations of the Angel of the Lord being referred to as God.

And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush.
And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:2,6

and again

21 When the Angel of the Lord appeared no more to Manoah and his wife, then Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the Lord.
22 And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!”
Judges 13:21-22

and again

11 And the Angel of the Lord said to her:
“Behold, you are with child, and you shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael, because the Lord has heard your affliction.
12 He shall be a wild man; his hand shall be against every man,
And every man’s hand against him. and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.”
13 Then she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees; for she said, “Have I also here seen Him who sees me?” Genesis 16:11-13


Then The Lord Himself, the Spirit of Christ, through Zechariah also refers to the Angel of the Lord as God.

In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall belike God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. Zechariah 12:8


Then the writer of the book of Hebrews weighs in on the subject:

For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, today I have begotten You”?

and again -

But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
Hebrews 1:5,8

Jesus is the Lord God of Israel, who became flesh and died for our sins, and rose again on the Third Day.

He is coming with His saints to Judge the living and the dead.

Jesus Christ is our great God and Savior. Titus 2:13


JLB

 

[jonahmano]

This OSAS debate will never end. I think Ephesians 2:8-9 speaks about a very serious religious person who wants to be perfect. And truly the zealous first church was fearful of their wrongdoings but that doesn't give us the license to live our lives according to worldly standards and still be worthy of making it to heaven.

 

[FreeGrace]

John 15 has several references to loss of salvation.
John 15:2 (KJV) Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;fn and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

The agricultural metaphor was used to indicate production, or lack of production. Just as a farmer will discard a branch that does not produce fruit, So God will discard the believer (not use for His service) who doesn't produce.

One must remember how God relates various doctrines. He is called our Father, and we are called His children.

Just as the physical RELATIONSHIP between parent and child cannot be undone, or severed, the same is true of the spiriutal RELATIONSHIP between God and His children.

What can be broken or severed is FELLOWSHIP between God and His children.

Here are some veres about FELLOWSHIP:

1 Cor 1:9 - God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
2 Cor 13:14 - The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.
Phil 2:1 - Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion
1 John 1:3 - what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth
1 John 1:7 - but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
(NASB)

Just as fellowship between birth parent and child can be lost, broken, severed, etc, the same is true of our fellowship with God.

In fact, Paul describes loss of fellowship this way:
Eph 4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. NASB
1 Thess 5:19 - Do not quench the Spirit NASB

It should be obvious that either grieving or quenching the Holy Spirit would be a break in FELLOWSHIP. Just as grieving our birth parents illustrates a break in fellowship.

How can a child have fellowship with the parent they are grieving? Not possible.

FELLOWSHIP must be restored between God and His children when it has been broken. Just like the prodigal son, who repented and confessed his sins to his father.

That's why we have 1 Jn 1:9. To restore fellowship.

We must know and remember that fellowship and relationship are not the same. Unfortunately, most people today use the word "relationship" when they really mean fellowship.

The understanding of the word translated "takes away" (Gr: αἴρω [airō] to move from its place, to take off or away what is attached to anything, to remove), is reflected in the word translated "prunes." ( Gr: καθαίρω [kathairō] to prune trees and vines from useless shoots). A branch that is "taken away" from the vine is no longer connected to the vine. Both words indicate that unproductive branches are removed (taken away, removed, cut off, pruned) from the vine.

And this speaks of loss of fellowship. The reason this CANNOT refer to loss of salvation is that the believer's RELATIONSHIP cannot be broken any more than the RELATIONSHIP between birth parent and child cannot be broken.

Further, Paul taught that God's gifts are irrevocable in Rom 11:29. And he described eternal life as a gift of God in Rom 6:23. And he never used the word 'gift' between those 2 words. So they are definitely connected.

When Paul wrote 11:29, he most certainly was thinking of eternal life, which he described as a gift of God.

Jesus reiterated the teaching at verse 6: “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." (NKJV)

Both "fire" and "burning" are metaphors usually used to denote God's judgment or discipline. When indicating the lake of fire, we find added adjectives, like "eternal fire" (Matt 18:8, 25:41, Jude 7).

That verse states the fact that, according to Jesus, it is possible to be "in Christ" and not remain (abide) in Him.

Correct!! To be 'in Christ' is a permanent RELATIONSHIP. We know this from several verses:
Paul spoke of believers being sealed with the Holy Spirit:

13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph 1 (NIV)
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Eph 4:30 NIV
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge. 2 Cor 1:22 NIV
Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. 2 Cor 5:5 NIV

The Holy Spirit is a PROMISE, with a view to the REDEMPTION of God's own possession (believers), and sealed FOR THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

It could not be said more clearly that this.

Once sealed, always sealed. For the day of redemption.

One cannot be saved if one does not remain in Christ.

But you just noted that one can be "in Christ" yet not "abide in Christ". This describes the difference between RELATIONSHIP and FELLOWSHIP.

To be "in Christ' speaks of RELATIONSHIP. Sealed with the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption.

To "abide in Christ" speaks of FELLOWSHIP. Which can be broken.

 

[FreeGrace]

Did you know that Paul wrote this to the Church in Rome; To Christians?

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7-8JLB

Except that Paul went on to prove that no one can continue in doing good, or earn eternal life.

Rom 3:9 and 3:23 prove that no one is good. Certainly not good enough.

Paul wrote that "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified." Rom 2:13. Kinda sounds like 2:6,7, huh.

But, THEN he wrote this in 3:20 - because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

So, 3:20 nullifies any notion of fulfilling 2:13. From 3:20 through ch 4, Paul's whole point is that justification is by faith.

 

[JLB]

Except that Paul went on to prove that no one can continue in doing good, or earn eternal life.

Paul's clear warning in Romans 2, resonates throughout the rest of Romans, and all his letters.

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-7

Romans 6 -

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

Paul found himself continually having to warn these Gentiles about living as they used to live gratifying the flesh.

For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness...

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Compare these two statements:

• and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. Romans 6:22
• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

The final nail in the coffin for OSAS -

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

• Christians who spend their life sowing to the flesh, will reap the wages of death.

• Christians who spend their life, sowing to the Spirit, eternal life...

Romans 8 -

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


JLB

 

[Malachi]

The title of the thread should have actually been "If someone RECEIVES a gift..." A gift is neither earned nor deserved, but given freely by the giver out of love. The same applies to eternal life.
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. (Rev 22:17).

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Except that Paul went on to prove that no one can continue in doing good, or earn eternal life."

Paul's clear warning in Romans 2, resonates throughout the rest of Romans, and all his letters.

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-7

It was all clearly explained. You've not shown otherwise.

Romans 6 -

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

Paul found himself continually having to warn these Gentiles about living as they used to live gratifying the flesh.

Yes.

For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness...

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

How does this disprove eternal security? You've failed to provide any explanation.

Compare these two statements:

• and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. Romans 6:22
• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

Paul proved that no one is capable of continuing in doing good.

Rom 3:9 says that "all are under sin" and 3:23 says that "all have sinned".

The final nail in the coffin for OSAS -

What is meant by "final", since NO NAILS have yet been given??

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

How does this verse refute eternal security? You've provided no explanation of anything.

Christians who spend their life sowing to the flesh, will reap the wages of death.
Christians who spend their life, sowing to the Spirit, eternal life…

Well, such a view denies God's grace completely. And is a system of works salvation.

However, Paul completely REFUTES that notion:
"4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness," Rom 4:4,5 NASB

These 2 verses destroy the idea of earning eternal life.

But, if that wasn't enough, Paul then wrote this:
"8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Paul was just as clear about God's gifts, which are irrevocable (Rom 11:29). And he had already described eternal life as a gift of God in Rom 6:23.

Romans 8 -

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.JLB

Your obvious view that "death" here refers to eternal death hasn't been proven by proper exegesis. Until that is provided, your theory has no basis in truth.

It is totally impossible for Paul to have meant "eternal death" since he described eternal life as a gift of God and taught that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Unless one is comfortable with charging Paul with being contradictory, Rom 8:12 cannot mean what your view thinks he meant.

Also Paul taught clearly about the sealing with the Holy Spirit:

13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph 1
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Eph 4:30
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge. 2 Cor 1:22
Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge. 2 Cor 5:5

These verses totally refute conditional security.

Where are any verses that teach that God breaks this seal before "the day of redemption"? There aren't any.

 

[JLB]

How does this verse refute eternal security? You've provided no explanation of anything.

The verse needs no explanation.

The context is clear.

19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:19,22-23

Paul says that we are to be slaves to God, and slaves to holiness.

If we return to being a slave to sin, then we can expect the outcome of a life being a slave to sin, as death.

God has given us a free gift of eternal life. If we choose to accept His free gift, and then go back to being a slave of sin, then our wages are death, eternal death.

Here is how the Message Bible says it.

But now that you’ve found you don’t have to listen to sin tell you what to do, and have discovered the delight of listening to God telling you, what a surprise! A whole, healed, put-together life right now, with more and more of life on the way! Work hard for sin your whole life and your pension is death. But God’s gift is real life, eternal life, delivered by Jesus, our Master. Romans 6:22-23 The Message

The principle: You reap what you sow.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• if you live according to the flesh you will die;

and again

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

• you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

JLB

 

[WIP]

This is a general request/warning. Please....let's stay away from the "You're wrong and I'm right" arguments. If you disagree explain why you disagree and for the sake of clarity use Scripture to show your reasoning. I will begin removing entire posts.

 

[FreeGrace]

The verse needs no explanation.

The context is clear.

19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Let's take a breath here. The "end" refers to the end of one's life, of course. Which is eternal life. When our earthly life ends, our eternal life begins. This verse does not say anything about becoming slaves of God in order to obtain eternal life, as it appears your view contends.

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:19,22-23

I love this verse. We know that God's gift of eternal life is irrevocable from Rom 11:29. And we know that we receive eternal life when we believe in Christ. 1 Tim 1:16 - But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

When we believe, we receive eternal life.

Paul says that we are to be slaves to God, and slaves to holiness.

If we return to being a slave to sin, then we can expect the outcome of a life being a slave to sin, as death.

As I've shown repeatedly, death has a number of meanings and usages in Scripture.

Heb 11:12 - Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants as the stars of heaven in number, and innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.

Hopefully, no one apples "eternal death" to this passage that refers to Abraham. Paul used 'death' to refer to a break in FELLOWSHIP with God. That kind of death.

Which was Jesus' point in the prodigal son, when the father noted that his son, who was "dead" (not really dead, but totally out of fellowship with the father) had returned home (repentance and confession) and was therefore "alive". IOW, the fellowship had been restored.

God has given us a free gift of eternal life. If we choose to accept His free gift, and then go back to being a slave of sin, then our wages are death, eternal death.

Then Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was pointless. He died for all sin.

Here is how the Message Bible says it.

But now that you’ve found you don’t have to listen to sin tell you what to do, and have discovered the delight of listening to God telling you, what a surprise! A whole, healed, put-together life right now, with more and more of life on the way! Work hard for sin your whole life and your pension is death. But God’s gift is real life, eternal life, delivered by Jesus, our Master. Romans 6:22-23 The Message

If sin is why people go to hell, then Jesus' sacrifice was pointless. Is that your view of His sacrifice??

The principle: You reap what you sow.

This is relevant only in the sense of earning reward, vs losing reward.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

Again, this is about fellowship, since our relationship is permanent, just as permanent as the relationship between birth parent and child. Cannot be changed.

 

[JLB]

Let's take a breath here. The "end" refers to the end of one's life, of course.

The end would be at the Judgement seat of Christ.

I love this verse. We know that God's gift of eternal life is irrevocable from Rom 11:29. And we know that we receive eternal life when we believe in Christ. 1 Tim 1:16 - But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

Yes Paul is our example of those who believe, and will receive eternal life.

Here are some examples of Paul's lifestyle of believing.

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Corinthians 13:5


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

The end would be at the Judgement seat of Christ.

Actually, that's the BEGINNING of eternity. And for the believer, there is no end to that.

So, the "end" must refer to one's physical life on earth. Because, after that, eternity has no end.

But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.1 Corinthians 9:27

This has nothing to do with loss of salvation. Rather, Paul was using the Isthmian athletic games (like olympics) as examples. btw, these games were near Corinth, so they would all have been very familiar with them.

Athletes trained for 10 months, but only 1 would receive the prize. The Greek word for "competes" is where we get the English word "agony". Hard work, iow. Self control (v.25) refers to the athlete's self control because of this strict training. While the athletes compete for a perishable crown, believers are given the opportunity to obtain an imperishable crown (eternal rewards). While athletes compete against each other for 1 crown, believers compete against themselves for the imperishable crown. 2 Tim 2:5 - Also if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules. When the believer competes according to God's rules, he will win the imperishable crown.

Paul realizes that his greatest problem in this "contest" is himself. Which is why he wrote that he discplines his body so that he will not become disqualified. If any of the athletes violated any of the training codes, they would be disqualified from competing. They could not win the crown. Believers will be disqualified from eternal rewards if they violate God's rules for earning eternal rewards.

\Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Corinthians 13:5JLB

I have no idea how you understand this verse, but I know that John MacArthur teaches this verse to mean to check to make sure you are saved. But how silly. We don't have to check to see if we are saved. We KNOW we are saved if we have placed our trust in Christ for salvation.

Instead, this verse encourages each believer to ensure they are actually living according to God's rules for Christians.

iow, we need to check to ensure we are living our lives as believers, not as "the Gentiles". Eph 4:17 - So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,

In the Greek, the phrase "walk no longer just as" means to "stop walking like".

We find the same phrase in Acts 4:17 where the Pharisees commanded the apostles to "speak no longer in this Name". They WERE speaking in the Name of Jesus and the Pharisees commanded them to stop doing it.

 

[JLB]

This has nothing to do with loss of salvation. Rather, Paul was using the Isthmian athletic games (like olympics) as examples. btw, these games were near Corinth, so they would all have been very familiar with them.

Athletes trained for 10 months, but only 1 would receive the prize. The Greek word for "competes" is where we get the English word "agony". Hard work, iow. Self control (v.25) refers to the athlete's self control because of this strict training. While the athletes compete for a perishable crown, believers are given the opportunity to obtain an imperishable crown (eternal rewards). While athletes compete against each other for 1 crown, believers compete against themselves for the imperishable crown. 2 Tim 2:5 - Also if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules. When the believer competes according to God's rules, he will win the imperishable crown.

Paul realizes that his greatest problem in this "contest" is himself. Which is why he wrote that he discplines his body so that he will not become disqualified. If any of the athletes violated any of the training codes, they would be disqualified from competing. They could not win the crown. Believers will be disqualified from eternal rewards if they violate God's rules for earning eternal rewards.

The crown is the crown of life, that the Lord promised to those who love Him.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

Approved is the opposite of disqualified. Those who are disqualified, and not approved.

It's crystal clear that James refers to salvation.

It's crystal clear that Paul refers to Salvation.

His use of the expression "disqualified" needs no explanation and can not be "redefined" into some hyper-grace theological position, that has arisen in the last days.

It's means [ G96]

1. not standing the test, not approved
   
   1. properly used of metals and coins
      
2. that which does not prove itself such as it ought
   
   1. unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate
      

Paul uses this same expression here as the context is clear.

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Corinthians 13:5


Reprobates are those who are rejected and have shown themselves to be disqualified to receive the crown of life.

Your attempt to redefine terms, has been well noted by all who desire to walk in the truth as those who love the Lord.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12



JLB

 

[Malachi]

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

There are several crowns awarded in Scripture to those who deserve them. These are "rewards" for faithful service. No one should suggest that anyone can earn their salvation and be awarded the GIFT of eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace]

The crown is the crown of life, that the Lord promised to those who love Him.

Which is an eternal reward, not salvation itself. It is earned, unlike salvation, which is a free gift.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

Approved is the opposite of disqualified. Those who are disqualified, and not approved.

I've already explained the meaning of what Paul meant by "disqualified" in 1 Cor 9:27. If you disagree, please take my points and refute them directly. This is another disagreement, without substantive remarks.

It's crystal clear that James refers to salvation.
It's crystal clear that Paul refers to Salvation.

You've not shown why or how that would be.

His use of the expression "disqualified" needs no explanation and can not be "redefined" into some hyper-grace theological position, that has arisen in the last days.

There is no such thing as "hyper grace". Those who believe that salvation can be lost simply don't believe in grace itself. So it appears that any mention of grace seems like hyper grace to them.

It's means [ G96]

1. not standing the test, not approved
   1. properly used of metals and coins
2. that which does not prove itself such as it ought
   1. unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

Yes, unfit for eternal reward.

Paul uses this same expression here as the context is clear.

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Corinthians 13:5

Once again, Paul's challenge is for believers to make sure they are living their lives as they ought to live.

Here's how the believer OUGHT TO LIVE:
1 Cor 15:34 - Become sober-minded as you OUGHT, and stop sinning; for some have no knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.
1 Thess 4:1 - Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you OUGHT to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more.
2 Thess 3:7 - For you yourselves know how you OUGHT to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you,
1 Tim 3:15 - but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one OUGHT to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.
Heb 5:12 - For though by this time you OUGHT to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
2 Pet 3:11 - Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people OUGHT you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
1 Jn 2:6 - the one who says he abides in Him OUGHT himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
1 Jn 3:16 - We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we OUGHT to lay down our lives for the brethren.
1 Jn 4:11 - Beloved, if God so loved us, we also OUGHT to love one another.

iow, 2 Cor 13:5 is about how believers OUGHT to live. That's what Paul meant, and I have proven from a host of verses about what the believer OUGHT to do. Or how the believer OUGHT to live.

Reprobates are those who are rejected and have shown themselves to be disqualified to receive the crown of life.

Correct. Such believers will not receive that eternal reward. Nor any other reward.

Your attempt to redefine terms, has been well noted by all who desire to walk in the truth as those who love the Lord.

I've explained terms, with proof from other Spirit inspired writers.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

Amen! Eternal reward for the believer who DID live as he OUGHT to live.

 

[JLB]

Which is an eternal reward, not salvation itself. It is earned, unlike salvation, which is a free gift.

The crown of Life is a reference to salvation.

I've already explained the meaning of what Paul meant by "disqualified" in 1 Cor 9:27. If you disagree, please take my points and refute them directly. This is another disagreement, without substantive remarks.

Your "definition" that actually changes what Paul's words are to the Church, is not acceptable.

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Corinthians 13:5

The crown of Life goes to those who are approved, not to those who are reprobates and are disqualified.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1;12


Paul's clear warning in Romans 2, resonates throughout the rest of Romans, and all his letters.

5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-7


Now where is OSAS to found in scripture.


Those who continue to remain connected to Jesus Christ, continue to receive eternal life.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Those who are connect for a while, then become disconnected, no longer have access to the eternal life they once had.

These that have become disconnected from Christ, are gathered up and thrown into the fire.


This of course is irrefutable, which is why you can not answer this scripture, but only attempt to change the meaning, by "redefining" the words, to fit your "theology".


You have never been able to provide a scripture, that shows we have eternal life apart from being connected to Jesus Christ.


JLB