If you believe you can lose your salvation, you are not saved!(explanation)

[FreeGrace]

And as I have already shown, yes the Bible does teach that one goes to heaven because of faithful obedience:

In fact, one goes to heaven ONLY through faith in Christ. If by "faithful obedience" one means faith in Christ, then yes, you are correct.

But if one believes that one must perform works to enter heaven, then that view is salvation by works, which is totally unbiblical.

“Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 ‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ (Matthew 25:34-36 NASB italics in original)

Can't wait until you explain to us how it doesn't really mean what it says.

The key is understanding what it says. We all know what it says.

To take your view to its logical conclusion, one gets into heaven by feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and visiting those in prison. Is that really all it takes to get into heaven?

I'm sure most are aware that the social gospel, which is totally heretical, preaches this as well; just meet physical needs and you'll get into heaven.

btw, the key to understanding this passage properly is to note those who are on the right and those who are on the left. Those on the right are believers. Those on the left are unbelievers. Any other way to view this passage is to teach the heresy that one gets into heaven by their works.

I strongly reject such a view and gospel. In fact, it is a "different gospel", one that does NOT save.

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes you have already said this.

Now, all that is left is for you to post the scriptures that teach us this claim you have made.
JLB

It really isn't a claim, but a refutation of those who believe that one does get into heaven by "faithful obedience". And I will repeat; there are NO verses that teach such a view.

I always reject a claim or view that has NO Scriptural backing. There is no reason to accept when the Bible doesn't say and teach it.

 

[FreeGrace]

My first choice would have been what Jethro posted. Matthew 25:31-40

However this scripture will work
(pun intended) just fine.

In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. Acts 10:34-35JLB

The real question is how one achieves righteousness. I recommend Romans 3 and esp 4 for the answer to that question. Our righteousness comes from faith in Christ.

 

[JLB]

1) Of course Abraham's faith prior to Genesis 15:6 NASB solicited God's approval. The mistake you make is thinking that any and all faith in any and all circumstances makes a person righteous. The Bible says he was justified in Genesis 15. You have to add to the Bible to insist that he was justified before that. (And let's not forget the reason why you have to believe that).

Hebrews gives us examples of those who walked in the righteousness which is according to faith.

One does not have to add to the bible to see that Abraham walked in the same righteousness which is according to faith as Able and Noah.

One only needs to read the Bible to see this truth.

4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, "and was not found, because God had taken him"; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:4-8

By faith = obey God
By faith = right with God

Faith, which requires obedience, is the only that pleases God, and makes someone right with God.

Faith all by itself is dead. James 2:17

Just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without the work of obedience is dead. James 2:26


Please answer this question -

And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment.
21For she said to herself, "If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well."
22 But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, "Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well." And the woman was made well from that hour. Matthew 9:20-22

If this woman only believed within her heart, and did not do the action of faith, by touching His garment, would she have been made well?

Likewise is we don't obey the Gospel Message by turning to God, and acknowledging Jesus as Lord, our faith is dead and will not appropriate the forgiveness of sins.

Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out...


JLB

 

[JLB]

The necessity for Cornelius to hear what Peter had to say. That's what makes me think that.

Just like it was necessary for Abraham to hear what Jesus had to say, while being preserved alive in the heart of the earth.

The real question is how one achieves righteousness. I recommend Romans 3 and esp 4 for the answer to that question. Our righteousness comes from faith in Christ.

Our Faith is dead, and inactive without the action or work or effort of obedience to the Gospel command, which is repent.

For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:10


Obedience begins in the heart and is expressed through the human body.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But if one believes that one must perform works to enter heaven, then that view is salvation by works, which is totally unbiblical.

No. You're not listening.

The works are the obligatory evidence that must accompany the faith that justifies all by itself. The works validate the faith as having justified the person.

So many are programmed in the church to only be able to think of works in regard to trying to be justified by works, therefore, they reject any and all suggestions that works have to be part of a valid salvation through faith in Christ without them being the thing that does the justifying.

"Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God" (Philippians 2:14-15 NASB)

Our works validate us as having been made righteous through faith apart from works. The great deception in the church today is the teaching that faith that does not have to validate itself as able to justify by moving the person to do righteous work, and that even a faith that does not make a person righteous in behavior can still justify and, therefore, save a person on the Day of Wrath. Not even remotely true. Many will wake up to this harsh reality when it's too late.

 

[JLB]

It really isn't a claim, but a refutation of those who believe that one does get into heaven by "faithful obedience". And I will repeat; there are NO verses that teach such a view.

And I will repeat my request to you.

Please show the scripture for your claim.


Here is a reminder for you, as to the guidelines to post in the A&T section of this Forum -

... the following guidelines should be followed.

• Original posts should reference specific scripture and what it is the member wants to say or ask about that scripture.
• Subsequent responses either opposing or adding additional information should include references to specific supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation of the member's understanding of how that scripture applies.
• Opinions are plenty and have little value so please do not state positions that have no basis in scripture.
• Do not use phrases such as, “You’re wrong.” This is insulting and inappropriate and there are nicer ways to disagree without being insulting.
• Once you have made a point, refrain from flooding the forum with numerous posts making the same point over and over with nothing new to support it.
• You may ask a member questions as to what they believe on certain topics relative to the subject of the thread, but please keep in mind the member is under no obligation to answer.
• Failing to answer someone’s question doesn’t necessarily amount to an admission of error or surrender but keep in mind that in any debate if you refuse to or can not answer a reasonable question, it may weaken your position.

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

By faith = obey God
By faith = right with God

Faith, which requires obedience, is the only that pleases God, and makes someone right with God.

Faith all by itself is dead. James 2:17

Honestly, you're really becoming a bother to me.

You don't understand the argument, so there's no reason for you to comment on my posts until you do.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

To take your view to its logical conclusion, one gets into heaven by feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and visiting those in prison. Is that really all it takes to get into heaven?

In regard to the emboldened part: Who said that?

The faith that justifies, all by itself apart from works, is the faith that loves: "faith working through love" (Galatians 5:6 NASB)

If your faith does not move you to love others, you do not have the faith that justifies all by itself. You show that you are still in the guilt of your sin.

 

[JLB]

In fact, one goes to heaven ONLY through faith in Christ. If by "faithful obedience" one means faith in Christ, then yes, you are correct.

and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:3

Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. Acts 3:19

and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."
Mark 1:15


You must obey the Gospel command to repent, and believe.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Honestly, you're really becoming a bother to me.

You don't understand the argument, so there's no reason for you to comment on my posts until you do.

If you will notice, this was directed, not to you, but another poster.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you will notice, this was directed, not to you, but another poster.


JLB

fixed it.

 

[JLB]

Honestly, you're really becoming a bother to me.

You don't understand the argument, so there's no reason for you to comment on my posts until you do.

The statement I made was not directed at you.

However, if it's not too much of a bother, maybe you could clear up your position by answering this question?


And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment.
21 For she said to herself, "If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well."
22 But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, "Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well." And the woman was made well from that hour. Matthew 9:20-22

If this woman only believed within her heart, and did not do the action of faith, by touching His garment, would she have been made well?


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The statement I made was not directed at you.

However, if it's not too much of a bother, maybe you could clear up your position by answering this question?


And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment.
21 For she said to herself, "If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well."
22 But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, "Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well." And the woman was made well from that hour. Matthew 9:20-22

If this woman only believed within her heart, and did not do the action of faith, by touching His garment, would she have been made well?


JLB

I almost did, but I honestly don't think you have the capacity to hear what I'm saying. Honest.
You won't listen and you'll just go off into your repetitive rant. It's a waste of time to talk to you. Sorry, but that's the way I see it.

 

[JLB]

Honestly, you're really becoming a bother to me.

You don't understand the argument, so there's no reason for you to comment on my posts until you do.

I guess I just get the insult, with no scripture as to why you disagree with what I said.

Ok. So be it.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I almost did, but I honestly don't think you have the capacity to hear what I'm saying. Honest.
You won't listen and you'll just go off into your repetitive rant. It's a waste of time to talk to you. Sorry, but that's the way I see it.

Ok. If that's the way you see it. I'll respect that.


The way I see it, however, is this: scripture teaches us the principle of faith, that can not be disregarded if a person expects there faith to accomplish what God intended.

I see that if the woman "believed in her heart" all by itself, then her faith would not have fuctioned at all, and she would not have been healed.

That's the way I see it.

I believe if you were honest about this discussion of faith, you would see it that way too.

Faith only functions with the corresponding action, otherwise it is dead.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I guess I just get the insult, with no scripture as to why you disagree with what I said.

Ok. So be it.


JLB

I'm just telling you the truth. Whether you are humble or not will decide if you receive it as an insult. I've decided I'm not going to waste another Saturday morning writing lengthy posts to you that you don't understand and, therefore, can't respond appropriately to (and which no one else will read). You're too focused on yourself. You're not an open, honest person. If you're humble you'll take this to heart and change, instead of being insulted. Sorry, guy, but that's the way I sees it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Faith only functions with the corresponding action, otherwise it is dead.

See? You're not even addressing my argument.

You blindly insist that a person is not justified until they do something.
I say they are justified when they believe in Christ for the forgiveness of sin (Romans 3:24-25 NASB). Their actions then indicate if 1) they actually had a faith that can justify in the first place, or 2) they continued in that faith.

This is what you repeatedly show me by your responses that you simply do not get about my argument. If you did, you'd address it directly. But you don't.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

JLB, I'm not trying to be mean. It's just that you have to start debating these things in a more courteous and attentive way if you want the debate to continue.

 

[JLB]

I'm just telling you the truth. Whether you are humble or not will decide if you receive it as an insult. I've decided I'm not going to waste another Saturday morning writing lengthy posts to you that you don't understand and, therefore, can't respond appropriately to (and which no one else will read). You're too focused on yourself. You're not an open, honest person. If you're humble you'll take this to heart and change, instead of being insulted. Sorry, guy, but that's the way I sees it.

Thanks for your opinion again, as I see you exactly the same way.

You will make up just about anything, which you have done many times, to keep you argument going, even though the scriptures say just the opposite.

However, I just patiently keep trying give you the scriptures, with the context of what they say, and I choose not to insult you with my opinion about your stubbornness.

To me, that is being humble and loving.

Sorry you don't see it that way.

I never said I was insulted, as I'm not.

I said -

I guess I just get the insult, with no scripture as to why you disagree with what I said.

Ok. So be it.

Just because you through an insult at me, doesn't mean I'm insulted.

Honestly, from what I see, your doctrine has run it's course, and your irritated because I have exposed it for what it is.

You have tried to label me as teaching a "damnable works doctrine", because I said a person is required to "confess with their mouth" the Lord Jesus. The is the action of obedience that goes with believing in the heart.

You have misunderstood what the scriptures teach, and you have misunderstood me.



JLB