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If You Commit Suicide, Can You Go To Heaven ?

This is getting intense, initiative rolls everyone, I got 14 + 5, that's 19 :)

Also, killing yourself is the destruction of Gods temple (your body), so it is a sin, but there is always a chance to repent for your sins, so maybe there is a way to get into heaven...
 
Dalen Naskiel said:
This is getting intense, initiative rolls everyone, I got 14 + 5, that's 19 :)

Also, killing yourself is the destruction of Gods temple (your body), so it is a sin, but there is always a chance to repent for your sins, so maybe there is a way to get into heaven...

So let me get this straight. If there is unconfessed sin in your life then by your definition your going to hell right. Lets say you commited a sin when you were 12 years old or 20 or what ever and you did not ask god to forgive you. Does this mean your going to hell? Do you see how bad your theology is in this?
When Jesus who is GOD went to the cross he took the sins of those who would recieve him as Lord and saviour. EVERY SIN YOU HAVE EVER COMMITED AND WILL COMMIT IS WAS HANDLED AT THE CROSS. Why is that so hard to understand?
 
Dalen Naskiel wrote:
This is getting intense, initiative rolls everyone, I got 14 + 5, that's 19

Also, killing yourself is the destruction of Gods temple (your body), so it is a sin, but there is always a chance to repent for your sins, so maybe there is a way to get into heaven...
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jgredline wrote:
So let me get this straight. If there is unconfessed sin in your life then by your definition your going to hell right. Lets say you commited a sin when you were 12 years old or 20 or what ever and you did not ask god to forgive you. Does this mean your going to hell? Do you see how bad your theology is in this?
When Jesus who is GOD went to the cross he took the sins of those who would recieve him as Lord and saviour. EVERY SIN YOU HAVE EVER COMMITED AND WILL COMMIT IS WAS HANDLED AT THE CROSS. Why is that so hard to understand?
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First of all i'm new to forums so I can't use the quote thingy well, second I never said you'll go straight to hell... I said that there is always a chance to repent your sins, even after death, everyone has a chance, so maybe when you go suicide, you can still get passage to the gates of heaven. Third, I rolled a higher initiative so according to the rules I get to go first.[/quote]
 
jgredline said:
Lewis W said:
Hey wait a minute hold the phone. How am I taking what Paul said out of context ? It is to be taken literally. And I know what the rest of the passages said. Picked that out because it is related to the subject at hand.

Ok lets go.
Give me the verse / vesres you are quoting?

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
 
Lewis W said:
If You Commit Suicide, Can You Go To Heaven ? I would say no, because you cannot ask God for for forgiveness if you are dead. The Bible does not specifically speak about suicide, but it is still murder. It is just that you have murdered yourself. And I would also say even if you are saved, I think killing yourself will negate you from going to be with the Lord.
A person is saved by faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:28). Therefore if someone has faith correctly and commits suicide, he will be saved. Besides, Christ said the only sin that will not be forgiven, is the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost - which is a condition that makes you incapable of having faith correctly.
 
Lewis W said:
jgredline said:
[quote="Lewis W":d5689]Hey wait a minute hold the phone. How am I taking what Paul said out of context ? It is to be taken literally. And I know what the rest of the passages said. Picked that out because it is related to the subject at hand.

Ok lets go.
Give me the verse / vesres you are quoting?

Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.[/quote:d5689]


PDOUG
I agree with you.
In addition when paul is mentioning all those sins and its by no means a complete list he speaking to people who think they are Christians. Rember. When paul wrote this specific letter it was to combat the false teachers of the day. He is saying that a true Christian will not live according to the flesh. He follows this part of scripture with the fruit of the spirit. That a True Christian will show this good fruit. So again this Verse does not support your argument whats so ever. If you would like I can give you a more detailed breakdown of this chapter.
Further more
5:21 The phrase “those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God†should not be interpreted to mean that the person who, at any time, commits one of these sins will go to hell. The present tense of the participle “practice†(prassontes, Gk.) indicates that what is warned against here is a habitual life-style. One who habitually lives in such a manner will not “inherit the kingdom of God.¢â‚¬Â
 
Solo said:
The only sin that will keep you from seeing and entering the Kingdom of God is the sin of unbelief whereby one is not born again, born of God. Those that are born again, born of God are sealed until the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit, regardless of their sinful flesh.

So one can kill themselves and still go to heaven? The fallacy of OSAS rears it's ugly head. It is simply not logical that the sins of the flesh do not matter in the salvation equation.
 
Lewis

To say we would not go to heaven is to say the work on the cross was not suffeciant.
This is logically inconsistent, for in saying this you are saying that all people must go to heaven or his grace is insufficient, since he died once for ALL. I doudt you are a universalist. The rub is the grace has to be applied to the sin like the salve to the sore. Repentence allows this to happen. The alcoholic must admit he is an alcoholic and the drug addict that he cannot control his desire for a high. The sinner must agree that he is enslaved to his sin for Christ to heal the sin. It is not that the grace is insufficient at all. But our hearts must be opened to it's healing power.

The person who commits suicide is in the sin of despair, not hoping in Christ. Not having faith, though they may have had it before. The grace is not being let in any longer.

Blessings
 
My 2 Cents

I've always had the belief that if you commit suicide, you will go to hell. I was never taught that and have never read it in the Bible, but I still strongly believe it for whatever reasons.

This belief has kept me from killing myself in the past and even now sometimes. But there are people in the Bible, such as Saul who "fell upon his sword." Did Saul go to heaven or hell? (I know paradise was around back then and not heaven). If I recall, Judas repented, so did he go to heaven after hanging himself? I just put him there for example because the Bible says it would have been better for him not to have been born.

That's just my 2 cents.

Also, if you get a chance, pray for God to bless my life. I'm going through some hard times and facing going to jail. If anyone would pray for God to deliver me, I would appreciate it.
 
thessalonian said:
Solo said:
The only sin that will keep you from seeing and entering the Kingdom of God is the sin of unbelief whereby one is not born again, born of God. Those that are born again, born of God are sealed until the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit, regardless of their sinful flesh.

So one can kill themselves and still go to heaven? The fallacy of OSAS rears it's ugly head. It is simply not logical that the sins of the flesh do not matter in the salvation equation.
Peter continued to sin and he is in heaven. Paul continued to sin and he is in heaven. You continue to sin and if you are born again, you will be in heaven. The sinful flesh will never enter into heaven, but the born again inward man will join with the resurrected changed flesh, and enter into the Kingdom of God.
 
That is very true. What if you were going to commit suicide, but were about to ask God for forgiveness for going to commit suicide.
 
Solo said:
thessalonian said:
Solo said:
The only sin that will keep you from seeing and entering the Kingdom of God is the sin of unbelief whereby one is not born again, born of God. Those that are born again, born of God are sealed until the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit, regardless of their sinful flesh.

So one can kill themselves and still go to heaven? The fallacy of OSAS rears it's ugly head. It is simply not logical that the sins of the flesh do not matter in the salvation equation.
Peter continued to sin and he is in heaven. Paul continued to sin and he is in heaven. You continue to sin and if you are born again, you will be in heaven. The sinful flesh will never enter into heaven, but the born again inward man will join with the resurrected changed flesh, and enter into the Kingdom of God.

Paul sinned and repented. Peter sinned and repented.
I sin and I repent of my sins allowing the grace of God to heal them. This idea that sins are "pre-forgiven" is nonsense. Grace must be applied to sin. If one does not repent it is not. That is the danger of suicide. There is very little opportunity to repent.
 
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come,2 then through the greater and more perfect tent (inot made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13 For if the sprinkling of defiled persons with othe blood of goats and bulls and with the ashes of a heifer sanctifies3 for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works uto serve the living God.
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that wthose who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. 19 For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you.†21 And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. 22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
23 Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 or was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared monce for all nat the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All
10 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sin? 3 But yin these sacrifices there is a reminder of sin every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,
“ Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’ â€Â
8 When he said above, “You have neither desired or taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings†(these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.†He abolishes the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest stands hdaily at his service, ioffering repeatedly the same sacrifices, jwhich can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ2 had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he ksat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time luntil his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering mhe has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
16 “ This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,â€Â
17 then he adds,
“ I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.â€Â
18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.
The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001 (Heb 9:11-10:18). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.


This part of scripture is pretty self explanitory.

When Christ went to the Cross he was a suffeciant Sacrifice once and for all and he remembers our sins no more.
There is only one sin thats unforgivable and virtually impossible to commit.
That sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I should be at work / working right now but I can't let this go. Here will break it down a little more.

The above scripture was taken using the ESV for a litteral easy to read translation and the commentary below I used the NKJV to get a better feel for what the writer of Hebrews was saying.

9:12 Unlike the sacrifice of the high priest, who repeatedly entered the Most Holy Place with blood once a year, Jesus’ sacrifice was complete and did not need to be repeated. The work of atonement is done; it cannot be undone.

9:14 The blood of Christ is clearly the price involved in the atonement. The atonement of Christ is one of the themes of the Book of Hebrews and the pivotal doctrine of the entire Bible. The sacrifices of the O.T. were forerunners of this work of Christ. The incarnation of Jesus was for the purpose of His suffering death in behalf of mankind. Atonement is a multifaceted concept which includes reconciliationâ€â€the restoration of man to fellowship with God (Rom. 5:10; 2 Cor. 5:19,); propitiationâ€â€the satisfying of the just demands of God’s holiness for the punishment of sin (Rom. 3:25,); and redemptionâ€â€the purchasing of the enslaved sinner to make him free (Col. 1:13, 14). The atonement of Christ made it possible for God to justify men and to be just in so doing (Rom. 3:26). No passage could be any more lucid than Lev. 17:11, which declares that “the life of the flesh is in the blood.†This life poured out in substitutionary sacrifice makes atonement for the soul. Nor is there any other possible approach to God. “Without shedding of blood there is no remission†(9:22). Christ’s death on Golgotha was substitutionary (in our place). It is the act of Christ which makes possible man’s forgiveness in that it satisfies the just and holy wrath of God.

9:15 The “Mediator†is the One who stands between men and God to bring them together.

9:16 Here the more restricted sense of “testament†as a “will†or a “covenant†is required. The testator had to die before the benefits of this covenant could be fully realized by those for whom they were intended. Again the objective necessity of the Lord’s death is affirmed.

9:19 “Goats†are not specifically mentioned in Ex. 24, but they could be used for burnt offerings (Lev. 1:10; 4:23). Neither is the phrase “water, scarlet wool, and hyssop†found in Exodus, but those items are used in the ceremony of the red heifer (Num. 19:6, 7, where the word “scarlet†appears without the word “woolâ€Â), which has already been mentioned in v. 13. Exodus does not tell about the sprinkling of the book itself, but it is implied.

9:21 Exodus 40:9 speaks of the anointing of the tabernacle, and everything in it, with oil but does not mention blood. Numbers 7:1 indicates, however, that Moses “anointed it and consecrated itâ€Â; this sanctification of the tabernacle would involve the sprinkling of blood.

9:26–28 Christ’s atonement conquered sin. Only one such atonement was necessary. The continuing significance of that one act of God in Christ may be observed in v. 28, in which the atonement is linked to the return of Christ, to consummating the salvation which was purchased on the cross.

10:2 The meaning is not that those under the Law had no forgiveness of any kind ( Lev. 4:20, 26, 31, 35) but rather that final cleansing was not possible. The consciousness of guilt was not removed. Only Christ provides that.

10:5–7 Psalm 40:6–8 is understood to be typological, referring to Christ’s incarnation. Part of the psalm (i.e., v. 12) would not apply to Christ because it speaks of the psalmist’s sins.

10:5 Instead of “a body You have prepared for Me,†the Hebrew text of Ps. 40:6 reads “My ears You have opened.†The LXX reads “a body You prepared for Me,†which paraphrases the Hebrew. God forms the ears of the psalmist for the purpose of hearing and responding. The LXX understands that the body is fashioned to hear and to do the will of God.

10:12 “Forever†in the Greek text could be understood as either one sacrifice for sins forever
(vv. 10, 14; 7:27; 9:12, 25–28) or that He forever sat down, His “sitting†being contrasted with the “standing†of the Levitical priests (v. 11), thus indicating the completion of the atonement.

10:18 The blood of sacrificial animals effected a temporary atonement, but the sacrificial system in itself could not take away sin and its consequent debt (which required forgiveness), slavery (which called for redemption), or alienation (which demanded reconciliation). Christ through His death made the perfect atonement with everlasting efficacy. The key contrast is between “remission†(aphesis, Gk.) and “offering†(prosphora, Gk.). The O.T. sacrifices were merely an “offering,†a divinely appointed temporary means to bring man to God; Christ’s redemptive work, “remission,†was the perfect completion of atonement.

If Jesus who is GOD is your lord and saviour then your sins have been dealt with. A universalist believes that all roads lead to heaven. There is only one way and as Jesus said. I am the way the truth and the life.

I have just spent one and a half hour on this when I should be working but I could not sit back while people try and steal Jesus Gloria by saying his work on the cross was not sufficiant. I suggest that if you feel this way you need to get an understanding of the cross and grace. I thank God all mighty Jesus Christ that I was born on this side of the cross under Grace and not under the Law.

Further more to say that unless you ask for forgiveness of sin before you die means your doomed for all eternity is simply bad theology.
Suppose Billy Grahm was about to be hit by a BUS and he said oh s_ _ _ and died instantly, would this mean Billy Grahm went to hell? Lets be real people.
I have great respect for most of the RCC or CC but this theology very much sounds like them and its flat wrong. I don't want to offend my CC brothers and sisters but Jesus who is GOD , his glory is more important to me than offending some people.

When Jesus went to the Cross he said '' it is finished''

JG
 
Jgred,

If you spent that time for me you wasted it as in no way did I say that Jesus grace was insufficient. It is sufficient to save every man, woman and child on earth 10 times over. He does not however force himself upon them but uses his grace externally to gently move men toward him. "All creation cries out to the glory of God". The grace however has to become internal. We by his grace when we open up to him by his grace let the Holy Spirit and grace in. Some however reject the grace that leads them to the point of letting the Holy Spirit and grace in. His grace is much more than sufficient. That is why it is so sad that so many go to hell.

Past sins have been dealt with but John tells us we must confess our sins that have not been dealt with, i.e. since our conversion.

1John.1
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Will forgive? Doesn't John believe the passages you posted? He does, but he understands them to be about sins already repented of and a promise for forgiveness of future sins. But not a pre-forgiveness.

Yes, Jesus died once FOR ALL. Once again, why aren't all saved. Is his grace insufficient for all? Nope. They just don't let his grace which shows forth in all creation open their hearts to let the rays of his grace shine though into their hearts and purge away the sin and tendancy toward sin.
 
Those who contend that a person who commits suicide will necessarily go to hell, is advancing the justification by works doctrine. They don’t even know what it means to repent. If a man can only achieve righteousness by having faith (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:28), then it is the act of having faith which is technically repentance. In other words, since the only way someone turn away from sin is by having faith (which gives him the capacity to do so), then technically a person repents by having faith – not by saying that he is sorry to God. Therefore the superficial of act of saying sorry to God or asking Him for forgiveness is nothing more than a formality, and a person actually repents through the process of having faith. Therefore so long as someone has faith, he is in a state of constant repentance, and his faith will keep him righteous despite anything he does (1 Corinthians 6:12).
 
thessalonian said:
Solo said:
thessalonian said:
Solo said:
The only sin that will keep you from seeing and entering the Kingdom of God is the sin of unbelief whereby one is not born again, born of God. Those that are born again, born of God are sealed until the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit, regardless of their sinful flesh.

So one can kill themselves and still go to heaven? The fallacy of OSAS rears it's ugly head. It is simply not logical that the sins of the flesh do not matter in the salvation equation.
Peter continued to sin and he is in heaven. Paul continued to sin and he is in heaven. You continue to sin and if you are born again, you will be in heaven. The sinful flesh will never enter into heaven, but the born again inward man will join with the resurrected changed flesh, and enter into the Kingdom of God.

Paul sinned and repented. Peter sinned and repented.
I sin and I repent of my sins allowing the grace of God to heal them. This idea that sins are "pre-forgiven" is nonsense. Grace must be applied to sin. If one does not repent it is not. That is the danger of suicide. There is very little opportunity to repent.

So you deny that a sinless inward man exists within the sinful flesh? Does not the Bible teach you that in the flesh dwells no good thing?

The ole boy that Paul said to excommunicate was said to be having his flesh destroyed, but his spirit would be saved in the last day.

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged F14 already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

Don't let RCC dogma lead you astray from the truth of God's Word. When I was born again, born of God, all of my sins, past, present, and future sins were paid for. I did not have to do any works to receive the sealing of the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, the day of the Lord Jesus.


.
 
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

Nicely put....
 
Solo said:
thessalonian said:
Solo said:
thessalonian said:
Solo said:
The only sin that will keep you from seeing and entering the Kingdom of God is the sin of unbelief whereby one is not born again, born of God. Those that are born again, born of God are sealed until the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit, regardless of their sinful flesh.

So one can kill themselves and still go to heaven? The fallacy of OSAS rears it's ugly head. It is simply not logical that the sins of the flesh do not matter in the salvation equation.
Peter continued to sin and he is in heaven. Paul continued to sin and he is in heaven. You continue to sin and if you are born again, you will be in heaven. The sinful flesh will never enter into heaven, but the born again inward man will join with the resurrected changed flesh, and enter into the Kingdom of God.

Paul sinned and repented. Peter sinned and repented.
I sin and I repent of my sins allowing the grace of God to heal them. This idea that sins are "pre-forgiven" is nonsense. Grace must be applied to sin. If one does not repent it is not. That is the danger of suicide. There is very little opportunity to repent.

So you deny that a sinless inward man exists within the sinful flesh? Does not the Bible teach you that in the flesh dwells no good thing?

The ole boy that Paul said to excommunicate was said to be having his flesh destroyed, but his spirit would be saved in the last day.

1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged F14 already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

Don't let RCC dogma lead you astray from the truth of God's Word. When I was born again, born of God, all of my sins, past, present, and future sins were paid for. I did not have to do any works to receive the sealing of the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, the day of the Lord Jesus.


.
Great post Solo.
 
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