If You Commit Suicide, Can You Go To Heaven ?

[thessalonian]

So you deny that a sinless inward man exists within the sinful flesh?

Are you going Manchean on me solo? Flesh in and of itself is not evil. Are animals evil? No. They are flesh. Our flesh can be used for good or for evil. It is by the grace of God that it is turned for the good that God designed it to do. It is by the healing power of his grace that we are sanctified.

Does not the Bible teach you that in the flesh dwells no good thing?

Perhaps you can quote me the passage. The scriptures do tell me that a man who lives for the flesh, ie. his own gratification and pleasure, rather than that of others (which is where true happyness lies, and which is the example Christ gave when he gave his flesh for the life of the world).

The ole boy that Paul said to excommunicate was said to be having his flesh destroyed, but his spirit would be saved in the last day. 1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged F14 already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

Paul was telling the community to take action because the man was living according to his fleshy desires and not according to the spirit of God within him that would overcome his sin. In fact the spirit had withdrawn from him. His chastisement was the only way to restore him. The corinthians were enabling him by tolerating his bad behavior. He needed to be brought to repentence. Paul was saying that in the state this man was in he was headed for HELL! Are you saying the man was still in grace? You must be kidding.

Don't let RCC dogma lead you astray from the truth of God's Word. When I was born again, born of God, all of my sins, past, present, and future sins were paid for. I did not have to do any works to receive the sealing of the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, the day of the Lord Jesus.

Sin and sin boldly was Martin Luther's phrase. I certainly hope that you don't subscribe to it. I didn't have to do any works to get saved either. God gave me the free gift of his spirit at baptism. He expects that spirit working in and through us however. See Eph 3:20-21. He leads us to the promised land by that spirit. But if we follow after Korah and Dathan rather than his duly appointed leaders and rather than the path he has set before us we will perish in the desert! That is the difference between you and I. You make the words of pall "fallen from grace" "severed from Christ" "cut off" to be nonsensical. You have a man who was never in a tree fall from that tree. A limb never attached severed. It doesn't fly. No I will not let the Catholic Church lead me astray because it cannot. I can only turn from it's healing grace!

Blessings

 

[Lewis]

The flesh is filthy, and it cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. The flesh will kill you if you let it. The flesh not held in check will do all kinds of things, you name it. The flesh not held in check has put billons in the ground and on a jet to hell.

 

[thessalonian]

The flesh is filthy, and it cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. The flesh will kill you if you let it. The flesh not held in check will do all kinds of things, you name it. The flesh not held in check has put billons in the ground and on a jet to hell.

I agree that the man in the flesh is capable of these things. The spirit (soul) is capable even separated from the body though as well. Were this not the case there would be no fallen angels and men who separate from the body would not go to hell. Christ however wishes to heal the flesh and sanctify it for the work of the Lord. That is the danger of your and solo's theology. He equips the man, including his flesh for every good work. He came to heal the flesh. If the flesh were worthless, christ would not have used it to redeem mankind. The flesh, in a right relationship with God and other men/women/children allows us to express the love of God planted in our hearts when we recieve Christ! Do you not believe in the resurrection of the body at the end of time? Do you not believe that Christ will heal the flesh to the state that it was in before the fall in the garden?

 

[Lewis]

The flesh is filthy, and it cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. The flesh will kill you if you let it. The flesh not held in check will do all kinds of things, you name it. The flesh not held in check has put billons in the ground and on a jet to hell.

I agree that the man in the flesh is capable of these things. The spirit (soul) is capable even separated from the body though as well. Were this not the case there would be no fallen angels and men who separate from the body would not go to hell. Christ however wishes to heal the flesh and sanctify it for the work of the Lord. That is the danger of your and solo's theology. He equips the man, including his flesh for every good work. He came to heal the flesh. If the flesh were worthless, christ would not have used it to redeem mankind. The flesh, in a right relationship with God and other men/women/children allows us to express the love of God planted in our hearts when we recieve Christ! Do you not believe in the resurrection of the body at the end of time? Do you not believe that Christ will heal the flesh to the state that it was in before the fall in the garden?

Well Thess, Jesus had to become flesh to do what He did for us. Plus by Him coming in the flesh, it let us know that God is reachable.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

 

[thessalonian]

Do you say that Jesus flesh was evil?

Man has desires of the flesh. These desires in us are disordered and most definitely need to be controlled, i.e. reigned in. They need to be healed and redeemed by Christ's death on the cross through the spirit working in us. To the extent that our will does not submit to them and resist them we are not guilty of them for it is Christ working in us that causes us to resist. Yet man is still capable of giving in to sin, i.e. not resisting. Redeemed flesh that is healed by the grace of God, i.e. returned to it's natural state as it was in the garden is not evil. God said it was good in the garden. Christ's grace heals. The slavery of sin is not an inevitable consequence of life in the flesh. The grace of Christ can set us free. Such freedom does not, it is true, originate from the flesh.

Blessings

 

[Solo]

So you deny that a sinless inward man exists within the sinful flesh?

Are you going Manchean on me solo? Flesh in and of itself is not evil. Are animals evil? No. They are flesh. Our flesh can be used for good or for evil. It is by the grace of God that it is turned for the good that God designed it to do. It is by the healing power of his grace that we are sanctified.

Your understanding of the flesh is a worldly understanding. The flesh is that which is born of water, or that which comes from the physical birth as described by Jesus in
John 3. Those that are only born of the flesh are condemned already as nothing in the flesh is inherently good in the Kingdom of God. No flesh and blood will enter into the Kingdom of God.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 OE wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:14-25

Manchean? No, God is so much more powerful than evil.

Does not the Bible teach you that in the flesh dwells no good thing?

Perhaps you can quote me the passage. The scriptures do tell me that a man who lives for the flesh, ie. his own gratification and pleasure, rather than that of others (which is where true happiness lies, and which is the example Christ gave when he gave his flesh for the life of the world).

I just quoted the passage above, but I am disappointed that you did not quote the passage that says that one can walk in the flesh and do good unto others. I will also quote you another scripture that tells believers to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21

The ole boy that Paul said to excommunicate was said to be having his flesh destroyed, but his spirit would be saved in the last day. 1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

Paul was telling the community to take action because the man was living according to his fleshy desires and not according to the spirit of God within him that would overcome his sin. In fact the spirit had withdrawn from him. His chastisement was the only way to restore him. The corinthians were enabling him by tolerating his bad behavior. He needed to be brought to repentance. Paul was saying that in the state this man was in he was headed for HELL! Are you saying the man was still in grace? You must be kidding.

Paul was telling the Church to expel such a one that was committing fornication so that such a one's flesh could be destroyed by satan, yet that his spirit would be saved in the day of Jesus Christ. Those are not my words, they are the words of God the Spirit giving inspiration to the Apostle Paul.

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Corinthians 5:5

No where does the scripture say that the Spirit will withdraw from anyone who is born again, born of God. In fact, just the opposite exists in scripture for those that are born of God.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:13-14

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30

Also, the scripture reference given says that the man's spirit will be saved in the day of Jesus Christ while satan destroys the flesh. No where does the scripture say that this one goes to hell.

Don't let RCC dogma lead you astray from the truth of God's Word. When I was born again, born of God, all of my sins, past, present, and future sins were paid for. I did not have to do any works to receive the sealing of the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, the day of the Lord Jesus.

Sin and sin boldly was Martin Luther's phrase. I certainly hope that you don't subscribe to it. I didn't have to do any works to get saved either. God gave me the free gift of his spirit at baptism. He expects that spirit working in and through us however. See Epha 3:20-21. He leads us to the promised land by that spirit. But if we follow after Korah and Dathan rather than his duly appointed leaders and rather than the path he has set before us we will perish in the desert! That is the difference between you and I. You make the words of pall "fallen from grace" "severed from Christ" "cut off" to be nonsensical. You have a man who was never in a tree fall from that tree. A limb never attached severed. It doesn't fly. No I will not let the Catholic Church lead me astray because it cannot. I can only turn from it's healing grace!

Blessings

God's grace abounds much, much more than sin. Those that are born again, born of God cannot be unborn again just as one can not be unborn from the physical birth. God is much more able to save than sin is to kill, thanks to Jesus Christ. Where sin abounds, God's grace abounds even more. Read the scripture below.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:20-21

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead doeth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:1-23
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[thessalonian]

Your contention that the man in 1 Cor 5 is a saved Christian is completely untenable if the whole passage is read.


[9] I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with immoral men;
[10] not at all meaning the immoral of this world, or the greedy and robbers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
[11] But rather I wrote to you not to associate with any one who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber -- not even to eat with such a one.
[12] For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
[13] God judges those outside. "Drive out the wicked person from among you."

Paul says the man is not inside the Church! When he says to caste him out he says "may be saved". Not will be saved. The man is currently quite clearly not saved for Paul tells us in other places (romans 1 for instance) that those guilty of graves sin (i.e. idolatry, greed, sexual immorality which this man is guilty of) are damned. Therefore this man is currently damned and cannot possibly be used as an example of a saved Christian who will not fall from grace no matter what he does. You missapply the passage terribly.

One cannot be unborn? Oh I suppose not in some fashion. But the flesh that was born can die and decay and be a body no longer. So the soul can no longer walk with God. You say this is not possible yet Adam in the garden before the fall shows you to be wrong. He walked with God and then walked no longer. When God curses him with death the hebrew word is actually die die, implying he will die spiritual as well as physical death. You are quite wrong hear. The seal can be broken. Grace is not irresistable.

Your lack of answer for being "severed from Christ" "fallen from grace" is duly noted.

Blessings

 

[Solo]

Your contention that the man in 1 Cor 5 is a saved Christian is completely untenable if the whole passage is read.


[9] I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with immoral men;
[10] not at all meaning the immoral of this world, or the greedy and robbers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
[11] But rather I wrote to you not to associate with any one who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber -- not even to eat with such a one.
[12] For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
[13] God judges those outside. "Drive out the wicked person from among you."

Paul says the man is not inside the Church! When he says to caste him out he says "may be saved". Not will be saved. The man is currently quite clearly not saved for Paul tells us in other places (romans 1 for instance) that those guilty of graves sin (i.e. idolatry, greed, sexual immorality which this man is guilty of) are damned. Therefore this man is currently damned and cannot possibly be used as an example of a saved Christian who will not fall from grace no matter what he does. You missapply the passage terribly.

One cannot be unborn? Oh I suppose not in some fashion. But the flesh that was born can die and decay and be a body no longer. So the soul can no longer walk with God. You say this is not possible yet Adam in the garden before the fall shows you to be wrong. He walked with God and then walked no longer. When God curses him with death the hebrew word is actually die die, implying he will die spiritual as well as physical death. You are quite wrong hear. The seal can be broken. Grace is not irresistable.

Your lack of answer for being "severed from Christ" "fallen from grace" is duly noted.

Blessings

Thess,
You misread the passage that you quote. Paul states that believers can not totally remove themselves from fornicators as that would mean they would have to leave the whole world (vs 10). Believers do have the duty to judge and discipline those that are brothers in Christ (vs 11-12). God judges those without, while believers judge those that are within (vs 13).
Please reread:

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

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[thessalonian]

No, you say that I misinterpret it because you superimpose your belief of once saved always saved over it and then tell me it says what you think. It does not. Paul is saying to judge him a wicked person (i.e. without) and caste him out, allowing God's chastisement to bring him to repentence.

"But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. "

The man is a fornicator at heart. He is saying subject him to the judgement of God. That is clear.

 

[Soma-Sight]

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

Thats about 99 percent of the Church!

 

[thessalonian]

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

Thats about 99 percent of the Church!

Funny you should say that. In a system where all sins are equal you would be right and everyone should be thrown out.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Funny you should say that. In a system where all sins are equal you would be right and everyone should be thrown out.

Well personally I have coveted this week so that rules me out..... :

 

[Solo]

No, you say that I misinterpret it because you superimpose your belief of once saved always saved over it and then tell me it says what you think. It does not. Paul is saying to judge him a wicked person (i.e. without) and caste him out, allowing God's chastisement to bring him to repentence.

"But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. "

The man is a fornicator at heart. He is saying subject him to the judgement of God. That is clear.

I don't expect you to override your RCC dogmatic beliefs to understand God's word, but the scriptures are clear. If one is a brother and such a one is caught up in fornication, covetousness, idolatry, railing, drunkedness, or extortion, do not keep company with such a one. Brethren do not judge those without, only those within.

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 1 Corinthians 5:11-12

 

[Soma-Sight]

I don't expect you to override your RCC dogmatic beliefs to understand God's word, but the scriptures are clear. If one is a brother and such a one is caught up in fornication, covetousness, idolatry, railing, drunkedness, or extortion, do not keep company with such a one. Brethren do not judge those without, only those within.

Or you could just give them a good solid beating.....

Or maybe that is the Islamic thing to do? 8-)

 

[Solo]

I don't expect you to override your RCC dogmatic beliefs to understand God's word, but the scriptures are clear. If one is a brother and such a one is caught up in fornication, covetousness, idolatry, railing, drunkedness, or extortion, do not keep company with such a one. Brethren do not judge those without, only those within.

Or you could just give them a good solid beating.....

Or maybe that is the Islamic thing to do? 8-)

I don't believe the Word of God says that that should be done so it shouldn't be done.

 

[ttg]

I hate to bring this thread back to topic, but since I just found it I guess I'll answer the original question.

For a sin to be severe enough to send you to hell it 1) must be a grave matter 2) it must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense, and 3) it must be committed with deliberate and complete consent.

A few years ago I went through a very difficult time that I would never wish on anyone else and seriously considered killing myself. Several times I looked for a good place to crash my car so that it would look like an accident. At least once I put my hand on my seatbelt to remove it just before I crashed. But I could never screw up the "courage" to do it, so I would lay in bed at night and pray for a quick heart attack or even cancer. I just didn't want to be here anymore. My answer to everything was "I don't care" or "it doesn't matter."

I look back and can see how mentally ill I was at that time. I had no control over the state of my mind. I was sick. But I know now that I didn't meet the requirements for commiting mortal sin because I wasn't aware of the gravity of the offense. In fact, I was convinced there was no gravity to the act of killing myself. I didn't care and no one else seemed to care. I really believed there would be no harm.

Would I have gone to hell? Probably. But not for the act of killing myself.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Would I have gone to hell? Probably. But not for the act of killing myself.

Dont ever think that again....

 

[jgredline]

Jgred,



1John.1
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Will forgive? Doesn't John believe the passages you posted? He does, but he understands them to be about sins already repented of and a promise for forgiveness of future sins. But not a pre-forgiveness.

Thessalonian

1:john 1:9
Here is what it means.
1:9 In order for us to walk day by day in fellowship with God and with our fellow believers, we must confess our sins: sins of commission, sins of omission, sins of thought, sins of act, secret sins, and public sins. We must drag them out into the open before God, call them by their names, take sides with God against them, and forsake them. Yes, true confession involves forsaking of sins: “He who covers his sins will not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy†(Prov. 28:13).
When we do that, we can claim the promise that God is faithful and just to forgive. He is faithful in the sense that He has promised to forgive and will abide by His promise. He is just to forgive because He has found a righteous basis for forgiveness in the substitutionary work of the Lord Jesus on the cross. And not only does He guarantee to forgive, but also to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
The forgiveness John speaks about here is parental, not judicial. Judicial forgiveness means forgiveness from the penalty of sins, which the sinner receives when he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. It is called judicial because it is granted by God acting as Judge. But what about sins which a person commits after conversion? As far as the penalty is concerned, the price has already been paid by the Lord Jesus on the cross of Calvary. But as far as fellowship in the family of God is concerned, the sinning saint needs parental forgiveness, that is, the forgiveness of His Father. He obtains it by confessing his sin. We need judicial forgiveness only once; that takes care of the penalty of all our sinsâ€â€past, present, and future. But we need parental forgiveness throughout our Christian life.
When we confess our sins, we must believe, on the authority of the word of God, that He forgives us. And if He forgives us, we must be willing to forgive ourselves.

I really hope this helps you to understand because living by your theology is dangerouse.

 

[Lewis]

I hate to bring this thread back to topic, but since I just found it I guess I'll answer the original question.

For a sin to be severe enough to send you to hell it 1) must be a grave matter 2) it must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense, and 3) it must be committed with deliberate and complete consent.

A few years ago I went through a very difficult time that I would never wish on anyone else and seriously considered killing myself. Several times I looked for a good place to crash my car so that it would look like an accident. At least once I put my hand on my seatbelt to remove it just before I crashed. But I could never screw up the "courage" to do it, so I would lay in bed at night and pray for a quick heart attack or even cancer. I just didn't want to be here anymore. My answer to everything was "I don't care" or "it doesn't matter."

I look back and can see how mentally ill I was at that time. I had no control over the state of my mind. I was sick. But I know now that I didn't meet the requirements for commiting mortal sin because I wasn't aware of the gravity of the offense. In fact, I was convinced there was no gravity to the act of killing myself. I didn't care and no one else seemed to care. I really believed there would be no harm.

Would I have gone to hell? Probably. But not for the act of killing myself.

Been there, was on drugs so bad, that I thought there was no other way out.
But anyway if you kill yourself, it is still murder and you can't ask for God to forgive you, because you are dead. Your life is not all your own so says the Bible. God owns you to be for real about it. But He gave you free will. Now if you commit murder you can be forgiven if you are saved, but you have to ask for it.

 

[Soma-Sight]

BURN VICTIMS HAVE RIGHT TO SUICIDE!

I just watched a video on a man that was burned on 80 percent of his body in my Christian Ethics RELE 457 class......

This man was MESSED UP and bathed in CLOROX BLEACH to keep infections off.

This happened in the 70's when you HAD NO RIGHT to leave the hospital even if you wanted no treatment....

Anyways this guy WANTED TO GO HOME AND DIE!

HE WANTED TO COMMIT SUICIDE AND I SAY GOD BLESS HIM AND SEE YA LATER DUDE!!!!

Check out these pics if you dare of burn victims...

Once again it goes to show that there are NO ABSOLUTES in the field of ethics!

There are always exceptions to lying, cheating, killing and suicide!

READ UP ON SITUATIONAL ETHICS IF YOU DARE....!!!! :

http://www.azstarnet.com/clips/trialbyfire/sp061032.jpg
http://www.marrder.com/htw/pictures/s8-12-7-1b.jpg