Thess
I will be waiting to see your interpretation of 1 cor 15:2 that you quoted. You know your IFFFFF passage.
I beleive I already gave you my interpretation of it. Hasn't changed since reading your rendering of it.
I am curiouse to see how you make it fit your theology.
Fits quite nicely when we don't treat if like Clinton treated the word is.
The differance between me and you is that I read and interpret the bible for what it says. You introduce your cc beliefs into it.
I would say that you are the one superimposing your OSAS beliefs on the passage. It is quite forced the way you have interpreted it. Let's have a looky shall we.
This is the great resurrection chapter. Some false teachers had entered the church at Corinth, denying the possibility of bodily resurrection. They did not deny the fact of life after death, but probably suggested that we would simply be spirit beings and not have literal bodies. The apostle here gives his classic answer to these denials.
I have no problem with this. You have said I took it out of context and then you give me this context (which I knew before). It makes not difference to how I see the passage.
1 cor 15:1-2
15:1, 2 Paul reminds them of the good news which he had preached to them, which they had received, and in which they now stood. This was not a new doctrine for the Corinthians, but it was necessary that they should be reminded of it at this critical time.
All well and good. Yes, it is quite obviously a critical time. Dividers and decievers are trying to sway them. Paul does not want them to be swayed in to loosing their belief in bodily resurrection. Do you claim that if they are true believers then it is impossible for them to be swayed in this manner? Or would you claim that even if they were swayed and decided not to believe in bodily ressurection they would still be saved? Curious.
It was this gospel by which the Corinthians had been saved.
Amen!
Then Paul adds the words if you hold fast that word which I preached to youâ€â€unless you believed in vain. It was by the gospel of the resurrection that they had been savedâ€â€unless, of course, there was no such thing as resurrection, in which case they could not have been saved at all
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I read this over and over and it puzzles me greatly. Does Paul not believe in the resurrection himself? Is he saying that they who RECIEVED the Gospel above really didn't recieve it? Is he saying that they didn't really believe when he says "believed in vain". He says they believe but he is saying they don't really believe? They recieve but they didn't really recieve? That seems to be what you are getting at. Especially with the last line in your paragraph.
In other words the if is to non beleivers.
Yet you say:
The if in this passage does not express any doubt as to their salvation
:roll:
Now he has no doudt in their salvation. He is sure of it. But the if is to those who recieved the gospel. To those who have believed, but in vein.
, nor does it teach that they were saved by holding fast.
So which is it. Do they not have to believe it any more? Can they go along with the judazers who say there is no bodily ressurection. Just like they could go on a shooting spree? Do they not have to hold fast to the Gospel in the future? We were saved. We are being saved. We will be saved all by the power of God. Paul is speaking of a continuous belief in the resurrection here. We must continue to believe in Christ and what he did on the cross and the bodily resurrection. God gives us the grace for such a belief as it is not within our own power.
Rather, Paul is simply stating that if there is no such thing as resurrection, then they weren’t saved at all.
Sorry, it just doesn't cut the mustard except in your OSAS theology. He is saying that they are saved regardless of if they hold fast to that belief or not? A belief that they recieved!
In other words, those who denied bodily resurrection were launching a frontal attack on the whole truth of the gospel. To Paul, the resurrection was fundamental. Without it there was no Christianity. Thus this verse is a challenge to the Corinthians to hold fast the gospel which they had received in the face of the attacks which were currently being made against it. In other words the if is to non beleivers.
So what happens if they don't hold fast? They are still saved? They never believed in the first place? The if is to non beleivers? That is who the you is in "[2] by which
YOU are saved, if
YOU hold it fast -- unless
YOU believed in vain. " Didn't you say above that he has no doudts about their salvation. Are you now saying that he isn't sure they really believed or recieved, therefore he doudts their salvation. Sorry. It just doesn't work for me. It is very contrived and contradictory unless you can answer some of my questions. Things are simple if you take if to mean that they in fact must hold to the Gospel and continue in faith. If they fall away (kinda a scriptural term, fall away) i.e. fall from grace (gal 5, can a man fall from a tree he was never in?) i.e are severed from Christ (gal 5, can a man be severed from something they were never attached to?) Makes alot of sense too.
God bless
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