Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
I'm Sick.....Abortion?
- Thread starter GodsGrace
- Start date
stovebolts
Member
ezrider,
This may be a better place to discuss the recent Alabama ruling.
As many may have heard, many states have passes tough abortion laws recently. The newest law which is getting much attention is the law which just got passed in Alabama which criminalizes abortion and can send a Dr who performs an abortion to prison up to 99 years.
I heard an excellent documentary on NPR last night where they interviewed the lawyer who wrote the law. He has been a lawyer since Roe vs Wade and has had his laws taken to the Supreme Court in the past to challenge that ruling.
With the two new conservative Supreme Court Justices appointed by President Trump, this guy thought it was time to challenge the courts.
He admitted that this new law is a direct violation of the constitution and he also knows because its a direct violation, it will never go into effect, and the governor understood this when she signed it.
The sole purpose of this law is to get back to the Supreme court and challenge Roe vs Wade.
It was an excellent piece NPR did last night.
Here is the podcast for anyone interested.
www.nytimes.com
This may be a better place to discuss the recent Alabama ruling.
As many may have heard, many states have passes tough abortion laws recently. The newest law which is getting much attention is the law which just got passed in Alabama which criminalizes abortion and can send a Dr who performs an abortion to prison up to 99 years.
I heard an excellent documentary on NPR last night where they interviewed the lawyer who wrote the law. He has been a lawyer since Roe vs Wade and has had his laws taken to the Supreme Court in the past to challenge that ruling.
With the two new conservative Supreme Court Justices appointed by President Trump, this guy thought it was time to challenge the courts.
He admitted that this new law is a direct violation of the constitution and he also knows because its a direct violation, it will never go into effect, and the governor understood this when she signed it.
The sole purpose of this law is to get back to the Supreme court and challenge Roe vs Wade.
It was an excellent piece NPR did last night.
Here is the podcast for anyone interested.
A Direct Challenge to Roe v. Wade in Alabama (Published 2019)
Emboldened by changes on the Supreme Court, some states have chipped away at abortion access. Alabama has gone a step further.
It may be good first step, but making it illegal for doctors to perform abortion won't solve the situation all by itself. Research indicates that nations where abortion is illegal actually have more abortions than nations where it is legal.
Much more will be needed to solve this situation. There is absolutely no substitute for obeying the Bible's instruction to:
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6 KJV
If you make it illegal for doctors to perform abortion, but don't train up children to respect the Lord, you will have just as many abortions as you do now. That is what happens in other countries where abortion is illegal. Women just self abort, or go to back alley abortionists. Note that the Alabama bill does not penalize women who self abort, only doctors. Making it illegal for doctors to perform abortion is only the first step in a very long war.
So what is the plan to train up children to fear the Lord in the USA?
Gutmacher said:
Much more will be needed to solve this situation. There is absolutely no substitute for obeying the Bible's instruction to:
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6 KJV
If you make it illegal for doctors to perform abortion, but don't train up children to respect the Lord, you will have just as many abortions as you do now. That is what happens in other countries where abortion is illegal. Women just self abort, or go to back alley abortionists. Note that the Alabama bill does not penalize women who self abort, only doctors. Making it illegal for doctors to perform abortion is only the first step in a very long war.
So what is the plan to train up children to fear the Lord in the USA?
stovebolts
Member
I wouldn't read too much into the Alabama law. It's unconstitutional and cannot go into effect.
Listen to the podcast I posted from the lawyer who drafted it. It was crafted very carefully to be challenged in a very specific way with the intention of it going to the Supreme Court. He has been doing this for 40 years.
Really, it's about overturning Roe vs Wade and outlawing abortion all together.
Yes it is, but my point is that such laws don't accomplish anything in other countries. Countries that outlaw abortion actually have more abortions than countries where it is legal. Much more will have to be done than simply doing the Roe thing. Its going to be a very long war, and we will have to plan for many additional steps to get the job done.
Although I will admit that you do have a point due to the fact that making drugs illegal didn't solve the problem either, but I still look at abortion as murder since it is the act of killing an innocent life without reason, and murder is illegal.
Sure, go ahead and make it illegal. That's fine with me. Pass a Constitutional Amendment so a future court can never change it back to legal.
In addition to that, just also do something else that will actually rescue a few babies. It shouldn't all be legal mumbo jumbo that doesn't actually rescue any babies.
stovebolts
Member
I understand.
Systemic sin starts from the top and works its way down. Certainly, abortion needs to be dealt with in a comprehensive manner.
ezrider and myself were looking at biblical solutions for the masses and using the OT as a schoolmaster, I came up with this as a rough outline.
If a woman does n't want to keep her child father has the right to take responsibility for the child. If he declines, immediate family is offered the child. If they decline, extended family is offered. If they decline, the child is put in foster care with the hopes of adoption.
If the woman unlawfully aborts the child, the father and immediate family may press criminal charges acting as a blood avenger as outlined in the OT..
Unlike the war on drugs, abortion is not criminalized, with the exception of the new Alabama law which cannot go into effect.
That might help. The woman would still need several months of medical care, and financial help from the father of her baby or her family while she is too pregnant to work. Many women have abortions because they have been abandoned by the father of their child, and are overwhelmed by the thought of having to do the whole thing as a single mother. This is not right.
And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. Exodus 22:16 KJV
The Bible is very clear that a woman is not to be abandoned in this manner. There are millions of abandoned single mothers in this country. It was never intended that a woman should have to do it all by herself. Young men must be trained up to never abandon their children, or the mother of their children. That is the OT way.
Alarge part of the problem is the obcession with self and 'my' wants, needs and pleasures to the exclusion of how they affect others.
That is a consquence of society rejecting Christianity.
But to widen the argument abortion harms children and promotes violent crime.
see:-
winteryknight.com
That is a consquence of society rejecting Christianity.
But to widen the argument abortion harms children and promotes violent crime.
see:-
Does abortion reduce violent crime? Does abortion reduce child abuse?
Grr, my annoying co-workers are at it again this morning. This time, it’s the man who annoyed me about overpopulation fears, which I responded to earlier this week. He says to me this morning…
winteryknight.com
stovebolts
Member
Absolutly. Many states have deadbeat dad laws where they can be imprisoned for not paying child support.
I'm a huge advocate in my church who says if you want to end abortions, then you need to step up to the plate and help support the mother and the child after it is born. This would mean higher community taxes to support services for these mothers and their children.
As you've brought up, the discussion is larger than just ending abortion. If we support the ban on abortion, then we better help support these women who will be raising them. It's got a huge ripple effect.
Yes, absolutely. Some of those who want to make abortion illegal also want to deny medical care to single mothers and their babies by repealing the ACA. Making abortion illegal and simultaneously denying people medical care will just drive women to self abort, or go to back alley abortionists. You will wind up with more abortions than you have now. Almost nobody can afford cash prices for hospital delivery in this country, substantially because of how many special favors are done for lobbyists by those who want to repeal the ACA.
Provide medical care to all citizens, like every other civilized nation in the world does. You will rescue more people by giving Americans adequate medical care than you will with legal mumbo jumbo. National health care countries tend to have much better infant longevity statistics. They actually care for what happens to babies after they are born over there. They care what happens to those babies over the next 90 years.
So yes, make abortion illegal. Then give people health care so that they can stay healthy once they are born.
Last edited:
Yes, allowing unbelievers to train up the nation's children was not such a good idea. The Bible is very clear that children should be trained up to respect the Lord.
Last edited:
stovebolts
Member
I'm with ya 110%.
There is cause and effect for every choice we make or impose upon anyone else. It is my believe that if we impose our values on others who do not share our values, then we need to be made fully responsible for the negative ripple it creates and that includes healthcare as well as other services into.
Start following wintery knight you'll find lots in common.
Children are a parents responcibility, when sunday schools started many Christian parents would not send there children to them because they took there responcibility to teach there children about God seriously.
Now it is largely christian families from the church who send children to sunday school.
How many Christian young women do you know who think the no 1 preiority in the guys they date is that he is active in church and is a responcible leader?
Oh I'm for all that that you just mentioned, I just want to stand up for the lives of innocent infants who can't stand up for themselves that's all.
I agree, but not everybody feels that way because not everybody even believes in God or the Bible and the constitution does mention that although we have the freedom of religion there's also the separation of church and state. (Actually, I'm not a hundred percent sure whether or not they're in the same documents but I think my point still stands.)
I like you.
What we need to do is look at the reasons women seek abortions and resolve those (an example is finances), as well as other things (such as better sex Ed) that also help decrease abortions.