Impossible Questions For Trinitarians

[jgredline]

Again....Greek words trying to define Hebrew concepts....oil and water....


Word = Logos = Memra.....Memra is the creative, active Word of God. Part of the Elohim but not El...

George George George
You do Know that the New Testiment was ALL written in Greek right ?

 

[Georges]

Again....Greek words trying to define Hebrew concepts....oil and water....


Word = Logos = Memra.....Memra is the creative, active Word of God. Part of the Elohim but not El...

George George George
You do Know that the New Testiment was ALL written in Greek right ?

Yeh...thanks for clearing that up...

Did you know that the original Matthew and Revelation were in Hebrew? Do you really think James was written in Greek when it is addressed to the 12 tribes? or 1st Peter to the Jew's scattered across the world? Aramaic maybe, Greek not originally. Unfortuanately, Trinitarian history won the day, and along with anti-semetic Christianity no physical evidence for the Hebrew texts other than historic reference is to be found.

What then do you have to go by? If you are forced to use Greek, do you interpret the writtings according to Greek thought if the concept is Hebrew? Of course not, but that's what happened. Might as well have written the NT in Hindi.....wait a minute.....they have multiple gods too.....but I digress....might as well have written the NT in Hindi using Hindi thought and words to promote Hebrew concepts...the results would be the same...

 

[Rick the holypig]

Again....Greek words trying to define Hebrew concepts....oil and water....


Word = Logos = Memra.....Memra is the creative, active Word of God. Part of the Elohim but not El...

If John had wanted to use a Hebrew word for the Concept of the LOGOS he would have. he uses other Hebrew words in his Gospel. so you can always tell when someone is at a loss to prove his wrong beliefs, he starts to use tricks like taking a greek word translating it into a hebrew word ^ then into English. why not translate it into Zulu maybe you can make the Logos mean hamster?

No John Chose to use the GREEK word LOGOS because he was writing to the cult known a Gnostics that some of you belong to & the Gnostic cult used GREEK. Stop pretending that you know Hebrew or greek because you don't have a clue about any of them.

 

[Georges]

Again....Greek words trying to define Hebrew concepts....oil and water....


Word = Logos = Memra.....Memra is the creative, active Word of God. Part of the Elohim but not El...

If John had wanted to use a Hebrew word for the Concept of the LOGOS he would have.

Mr Rick...come on.....Memra translates to Logos in Greek...Since Christianity is to the Gentiles and Greek being the common language....John was translated (or written) in Greek, either by himself, or penned by someone else. If he used Memra...every Greek in the world would have said collectively..."Huh?".

he uses other Hebrew words in his Gospel. so you can always tell when someone is at a loss to prove his wrong beliefs, he starts to use tricks like taking a greek word translating it into a hebrew word ^ then into English. why not translate it into Zulu maybe you can make the Logos mean hamster?

That's laughable...

No John Chose to use the GREEK word LOGOS because he was writing to the cult known a Gnostics that some of you belong to & the Gnostic cult used GREEK. Stop pretending that you know Hebrew or greek because you don't have a clue about any of them.

No, but I have the tools to research it....what's your excuse?

Give it up Mr. Rick.....

 

[R7-12]

jgredline,

You offered what you calimed to be an easy explanation of the question of this thread.

It has proven to be invalid. You have not answered the refutation of your offering, instead, you go after me personally – again.

You wrote,

R7
Pride comes before a fall my friend.

I agree with Scripture, but this verse does not address the deconstruction of your explanation.

In using the original greek
So far I have proven your interpretation of John1:1 false

Again I ask you to prove it.

I will provide the rendering I offered before one more time,

ēn arche ēn ho logos
In beginning was the logos

kai ho logos ēn pros ton theon
and the logos was toward the theon

kai theos ēn ho logos
and theos was the logos

Please identify the errors.

I have proven your interpretaion of Rev 1:1 false

No, on the contrary, you have merely claimed to do that, but your offering was not in line with what is written and that was clearly evident.

You should consider a class in Hermeneutics.. One of things you will learn is
that you can't take single verses out of contex as you have done with the prevoiuse 2 verses.
and others have done with Col 1:15

Not a single verse was taken out of context, in fact they were presented in their correct context.

Why do you attempt to insult? Just because I may not be very learned or have not received formal theological training has no bearing whether I have the spirit of God or have been given understanding. Discussions here are not about who has learned more in school but should be concerned only with what is written in the Bible.

I know you have a little cult following on this board and I pray that they too will see how your teaching is false.

Why do you speak evil of myself and others on this board? Are you my accuser? Or theirs? Do you discredit the ability of others to think for themselves? Why do you attempt to fabricate a cult mentality, accuse one of being a cult leader and others of being cult followers? Do you wish to influence others to believe in your theology on this board and then become angry if they disagree with you or believe differently than you?

The truth is I have no following on any board. There are some here in agreement on certain points but doesn’t that apply to others also? Of course.

You can keep throwing out fancy words and hope I don't understand them, but its not going to work. I understand them well.

If you understand the words I say why don’t you believe them?

If you understand what I am saying to you, why do you accuse me of trying to deceive you? My effort to communicate with you has obviously been effective according to your own words, so why speak evil of me?

I await your explanation of how I have allegedly twisted and made up Scripture regarding John 1:1, as you have accused.

I don't expect you to answer the other questions I have asked based on your previous responses.

R7-12

 

[Rick the holypig]

Again....Greek words trying to define Hebrew concepts....oil and water....


Word = Logos = Memra.....Memra is the creative, active Word of God. Part of the Elohim but not El...

If John had wanted to use a Hebrew word for the Concept of the LOGOS he would have.

Mr Rick...come on.....Memra translates to Logos in Greek...Since Christianity is to the Gentiles and Greek being the common language....John was translated (or written) in Greek, either by himself, or penned by someone else. If he used Memra...every Greek in the world would have said collectively..."Huh?".

he uses other Hebrew words in his Gospel. so you can always tell when someone is at a loss to prove his wrong beliefs, he starts to use tricks like taking a greek word translating it into a hebrew word ^ then into English. why not translate it into Zulu maybe you can make the Logos mean hamster?

That's laughable...

No John Chose to use the GREEK word LOGOS because he was writing to the cult known a Gnostics that some of you belong to & the Gnostic cult used GREEK. Stop pretending that you know Hebrew or greek because you don't have a clue about any of them.

No, but I have the tools to research it....what's your excuse?

Give it up Mr. Rick.....

John was never written in Hebrew. Matthew may have been but john never was

BTW
You word Memra is not used in the OT at all. even in Psalms 33:6
which says

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

the Hebrew word Dabar is used.

now this use of the word "word" in this verse is the perfect place to add your word Memra because it speaks of God Creating with His WORD but the writer chose to use DABAR.


There is a hebrew word 'imrah {im-raw'} or 'emrah {em-raw'} that is used for word & is used in the place of the Aramaic word Memra but it means

1) utterance, speech, word

a) word of God, the Torah

#0565 is the strongs number.

Please check your lies before you post them

So why would we use a Aramaic word to translate a hebrew idea of a greek word?

Answer - we wouldn't unless we were trying to cover up a lie.

So you need to get some new research tools & but the ones from your cult "the Bible Church" away

 

[R7-12]

Here is a question for you if you choose to answer it.
When you go to church do you go to worship Jesus?

Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ †(Matthew 4:10).

And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD (Kurios) your God (Theos), and Him only you shall serve.’ †(Luke 4:9).

“You shall fear the LORD (YHVH) your God (Elohim) and serve Him, and shall take oaths in His name. 14 “You shall not go after other gods (elohim), the gods (elohim) of the peoples who are all around you 15 ‘(for the LORD (YHVH) your God (elohim) is a jealous God (El) among you), lest the anger of the LORD (YHVH) your God (Elohim) be aroused against you and destroy you from the face of the earth (Deut. 6:13-15, NKJV).

“Then it shall be, if you by any means forget the LORD your God (elohim), and follow other gods, and serve them and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish (Deut. 8:19).

“You shall fear the LORD (YHVH) your God (Elohim); you shall serve Him, and to Him you shall hold fast, and take oaths in His name. 21 “He is your praise, and He is your God, who has done for you these great and awesome things which your eyes have seen (Deut. 10:20-21).

“You shall walk after the LORD (YHVH) your God (Elohim) and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice, and you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him (Deut. 13:4).

“But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods (elohim) and serve them, 18 “I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess (Deut. 30:17-18).

“But if you or your sons at all turn from following Me, and do not keep My commandments and My statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods and worship them, 7 “then I will cut off Israel from the land which I have given them; and this house which I have consecrated for My name I will cast out of My sight. Israel will be a proverb and a byword among all peoples. 8 “And as for this house, which is exalted, everyone who passes by it will be astonished and will hiss, and say, ‘Why has the LORD (YHVH) done thus to this land and to this house?’ 9 “Then they will answer, ‘Because they forsook the LORD (YHVH) their God (Elohim), who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have embraced other gods (elohim), and worshiped them and served them; therefore the LORD (YHVH) has brought all this calamity on them.’ †(1 Kings 9:6-9).

“You shall not fear other gods (elohim), nor bow down to them nor serve them nor sacrifice to them (2 Kings 17:35b).

Let all be put to shame who serve carved images, Who boast of idols. Worship Him, all you gods [elohim] (Psalm 97:7).

Only God who is our Father is to be worshipped and therefore we must offer sacrifices to Him only,

He who sacrifices to any god (elohim), except to the LORD (YHVH) only, he shall be utterly destroyed (Exodus 22:20, cf. Ezra 6:10).

They invited the people to the sacrifices of their gods (elohim), and the people ate and bowed down to their gods (elohim). 3 So Israel was joined to Baal of Peor, and the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel (Numbers 25:2-3).

Almighty God is the God of gods

“Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer. 17 “For the LORD (YHVH) your God (Elohim) is God (Elohim) of gods (elohim) and Lord of lords, the great God (El), mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe (Deut. 10:16-17).

The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, He knows (Joshua 22:22a).
The YHVH El of elohim, the YHVH El of elohim, He knows
Yahova El Elohim, Yahovah El Elohim, He knows

Oh, give thanks to the God (Elohim) of gods (elohim)! For His mercy endures forever (Psalm 136:2).

The king answered Daniel, and said, “Truly your God (Ar. Elahh) is the God (Elahh, or Eloah) of gods (elahh), the Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, since you could reveal this secret (Daniel 2:47).

We are to worship God our Father and Him alone,

And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you (1 Corinthians 14:25).

For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh (Phil. 3:3).

Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’ †And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.†10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.†(Revelation 19:9-10).

Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 “You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 “God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.†(John 4:21-24).

The Bible reveals that Jesus Christ is an elohim and the son of THE Elohim. The word of God (from Genesis to Revelation), commands us not to worship ANY elohim except God our Father, who is the God of gods – we are to fear Him only,

And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.†(Genesis 22:12).

“You shall have no other gods (elohim) before Me" (Exodus 20:3).

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD (YHVH) your God (Elohim), am a jealous God (El), visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments" (Exodus 20:4-6).

Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down toworship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.†(Revelation 22:8-9).

Ask and you shall receive.

The word of God has answered you.

R7-12

 

[R7-12]

So why would we use a Aramaic word to translate a hebrew idea of a greek word?

For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people (Isaiah 28:11, NKJV).

R7-12

 

[jgredline]

Again....Greek words trying to define Hebrew concepts....oil and water....


Word = Logos = Memra.....Memra is the creative, active Word of God. Part of the Elohim but not El...

George George George
You do Know that the New Testiment was ALL written in Greek right ?

Yeh...thanks for clearing that up...

Did you know that the original Matthew and Revelation were in Hebrew? Do you really think James was written in Greek when it is addressed to the 12 tribes? or 1st Peter to the Jew's scattered across the world? Aramaic maybe, Greek not originally. Unfortuanately, Trinitarian history won the day, and along with anti-semetic Christianity no physical evidence for the Hebrew texts other than historic reference is to be found.

What then do you have to go by? If you are forced to use Greek, do you interpret the writtings according to Greek thought if the concept is Hebrew? Of course not, but that's what happened. Might as well have written the NT in Hindi.....wait a minute.....they have multiple gods too.....but I digress....might as well have written the NT in Hindi using Hindi thought and words to promote Hebrew concepts...the results would be the same...

Georges
I did a little research on your word. Its great news. It affirms even more so the Diety of Christ

IDENTIFICATION
The Gospel according to John introduces Him with three tremendous statements.
In the beginning was the Word
And the Word was with God
And the Word was God
“The Word†is one of the highest and most profound titles of the Lord Jesus Christ. To determine the exact meaning is not easy. Obviously the Lord Jesus Christ is not the logos of Greek philosophy, rather He is the memra of the Hebrew Scriptures.
Notice how important the Word is in the Old Testament. For instance, the name for Jehovah was never pronounced. It was such a holy word that they never used it at all. But this is the One who is the Word; and gathering up everything that was said of Him in the Old Testament, He is now presented as the One “in the beginning.†This beginning antedates the very first words in the Bible, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.†That beginning can be dated, although I do not believe that anyone can date it accurately. It is nonsense to say that it is 4004 b.c., as Ussher’s dating has it. It probably goes back billions and billions of years. You see, you and I are dealing with the God of eternity. When you go back to creation He is already there, and that is exactly the way this is usedâ€â€Ã¢â‚¬Å“in the beginning was the Word.†Notice it is not is the Word; it was not in the beginning that the Word started out or was begotten. Was (as Dr. Lenske points out) is known as a durative imperfect, meaning continued action. It means that the Word was in the beginning. What beginning? Just as far back as you want to go. The Bible says, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.†Does that begin God? No, just keep on going back billions and trillions and “squillions†of years. I can think back to billions of years before creation. Maybe you can go beyond that, but let’s put down a point there, billions of years prior to creation. He already was; He comes out of eternity to meet us. He did not begin. “In the beginning was the Wordâ€Ââ€â€He was already there when the beginning was.
“Well,†somebody says, “there has to be a beginning somewhere.†All right, wherever you begin, He is there to meet you, He is already past tense. “In the beginning was the Wordâ€Ââ€â€five words in the original language, and there is not a man on topside of this earth who can put a date on it or understand it or fathom it. This first tremendous statement starts us off in space, you see.
The second statement is this, “And the Word was with God.†This makes it abundantly clear that He is separate and distinct from God the Father. You cannot identify Him as God the Father because He is with God. “But,†someone says, “if He is with God, He is not God.†The third statement sets us straight, “And the Word was God.†This is a clear, emphatic declaration that the Lord Jesus Christ is God. In fact, the Greek is more specific than this, because in the Greek language the important word is placed at the beginning of the sentence and it reads, “God was the Word.†That is emphatic; you cannot get it more emphatic than that. Do you want to get rid of the deity of Christ? My friend, you cannot get rid of it. The first three statements in John’s Gospel tie the thing down.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)
INTERPRETATION
Let’s move on down to verse 14 and notice the three statements there:
And the Word was made flesh
And the Word dwelt among us
He was full of grace and truth
The Greek philosopher probably would have stayed with us through verse one, but he leaves us here. He would never agree that the Word was made flesh. The Greek language allows us to put it more specifically and, I think, more accurately, “The Word was born flesh.†Turn this over in your mind for a moment. Here comes God out of eternity, already the Ancient of days; but He also came to Bethlehem, a little baby thing that made a woman cry. And notice that John’s Gospel does not even mention His birth in Bethlehem. Do you know why? He is talking about One who is too big for Bethlehem. Out of eternity, the Word became flesh.
“And [the Word] dwelt among us†is the second statement in John 1:14. “Dwelt†is from skenoo; it means He pitched His tent among us. Our human bodies are merely little tents in which we live. The apostle Paul used the same imagery, “We know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved… †(2 Corinthians 5:1). This house in which we live is a tabernacle, a tent, that can be blown over in a night; it can be snuffed out in an instant. Because you and I live in these little tents, the God of eternity took upon Himself a human body and thus pitched His tent down here among us. Such is the second tremendous statement.
Notice the third, “And we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.†Now John is saying something else. The observation I would naturally make at this point is, “If He was made flesh, He certainly limited Himself.†John says, “Wait a minute. He was full of grace and truth.†The word full means that you just could not have any more. He brought all the deity with Him, and He was full of grace and full of truth when He came down here.
ILLUMINATION
Now we move to verse eighteen to find three statements again:
No man hath seen God at any time The only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father He hath declared him
Notice the first, “No man hath seen God at any time.†Why? He will explain it in this Gospel. The Lord Jesus will tell the woman at the well, “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truthâ€Ââ€â€for God is spirit. No man has seen God at any time. What about the appearances in the Old Testament? God never revealed Himself in the Old Testament to the eyes of man. What, then, did they see? Well, go back and read the record. For instance, Jacob said that he saw God, but what he saw was the angel of the Lord who wrestled with him. That was a manifestation, but he did not see God, because God is a spirit. “No man hath seen God at any time.â€Â
The second statement is, “The only begotten Son.…†The best Greek text is that of Nestle, the German scholar. He has come to the definite conclusion that it is not the only begotten Son, but the only begotten God. I prefer that also. “… Which is in the bosom of the Father†tells us a great deal. He did not come from the head of God to reveal the wisdom of God; He did not come from the foot of God to be a servant of man. (Have you ever noticed this? Although we speak of the fact that He was a servant, whose shoes did He ever shine? Did He ever run an errand for anybody? He did not. He said, “I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will but the will of Him that sent Me.†He was God’s servant. He came to serve Him, and as He served the Father, He served men.) He did not come from the foot; He did not come from the head; it was from the bosom of the Father that He came. He came to reveal the heart of God. He was “the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father.â€Â
The third statement completes verse eighteen, “He hath declared him.†The Greek word here is exegesato. Ago is “to lead†and ex is “out.†It means that what Jesus Christ did was to lead God out into the open. Do you know anything bigger than that? A little trip to the moon is nothing in comparison. Here He comes out of eternity past, the God of this universe, the Creator of everything, taking upon Himself human flesh and bringing God out into the open so that men can know Him. My friend, the only way in the world you can know God is through this One, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ came to reveal God because He is God.
I am not through with these statements; there is something else here. Let’s put together the first verse in each of these three groups and see what we come up with:
In the beginning was the Word (verse 1)
And the Word was made flesh (verse 14)
No man hath seen God at any time (verse 18)
You could not see God; God is spirit. He had to become flesh; He had to become one of us in order for us to know Him. We could not go up there to understand Him; He had to come down here and bring God down where we are.
Now let’s put the second statements together from each of the three groups:
The Word was with God (verse 1)
And dwelt among us (verse 14)
The only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father (verse 18)
Consider this One for a momentâ€â€the angels bowed before Him; He was with God, on an equality with God. The apostle Paul wrote of Him, that He “thought it not robbery to be equal with God†(Philippians 2:6). That is, He did not go to school to become God, it was not something He worked overtime to attain. It was not a degree that He earned. He did not try to be God; He was God. I do not mean to be irreverent, but He did not say to the Father when He came to this earth, “Keep Your eye on Gabriel; he is after My jobâ€â€watch him while I’m gone.†He did not have to do that; nobody could take His place. He was God. Here He comes, born in Bethlehem, a few little shepherds there, not many; He goes up to Nazareth; for thirty years He is hidden away in Nazareth. God, out of eternity, comes down and goes to Nazareth, working in a carpenter shop. Why? So you can know God. The only way you will ever know Him, my friend, is to know this One. “The only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father,†He is the only One who can reveal God to us.
Now notice the third statement in each group:
The Word was God
And we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only
begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth
He hath declared him
When He was down here, He was still God, full of grace and truth. And He declared Him; He is the only One who can lead Him out in the open where we can get acquainted with Him.
We are not through with this. I want you to see something else. How do you divide up this universe? I sat with a man who designed the shield that has been on all these spacecrafts to make their re-entry. He is a scientist who is an authority on heat. As we had lunch together in New Jersey, he said, “You know, this universe is made up of just three things. I believe that God has put His fingerprints on everythingâ€â€the Trinity is everywhere.†Then he explained what he meant. The universe is divided up into time, space, and matter. Can you think of a fourth? The very interesting thing is that time, space, and matter include everything that is in this universe as you and I know it. Then time can be divided into just three parts: past, present, and future. Can you think of a fourth? And what about space? Length, breadth, and height. Is there another direction? Also in matter there is energy, motion, and phenomena. Those are the three divisions of the three divisions. The universe in which we live bears the mark of the Trinity.
Now notice the way in which the Incarnation is geared into this observation.
Time: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.â€Â
Space: “The Word was made fleshâ€Ââ€â€became flesh, came down into space. Where? To Bethlehem, a little geographical spotâ€â€and even this earth was a pretty small spot for Him to come toâ€â€and He pitched His tent here among us, we beheld His glory, full of grace and truth.
Matter: “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.†Because He became matter, became a man, took upon Himself humanity, men could see and know God. This is the time, space and matter of the Incarnation.
Let’s divide each of these into three. First, let’s look at time.
Past: “In the beginning was the Word.â€Â
Present: “The Word became flesh†(in our day).
Future: “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son … hath declared him.†The apostle Paul, at the end of his life, said, “That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection… †(Philippians 3:10). That will be for the futureâ€â€to really know Him; today we actually know so little because we are finite.
Then look at space, divided into length, breadth and height:
Length: “In the beginning was the Word.â€Â
Breadth: He came down to this earth and was made flesh.
Height: No man has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has come from the heights to set Him before us.
Consider the divisions of matter: energy, motion and phenomena.
Energy: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Godâ€Ââ€â€that’s energy. How did this universe come into existence? God spoke. Every rational person has to confront this problem of how the universe began. That is the reason evolution has been popularâ€â€it offers to the natural man an explanation for the origin of the universe. You must have an explanation for it, if you do any thinking at all. Where did it come from? Well, here is the answer, “In the beginning was the Word.†God spoke. That is the first thing that happened. When God speaks, when the Word speaks, energy is translated into matter. What is atomic fission? It is matter translated back into energyâ€â€poof! it disappears. Creation began with energy. In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, the Word was God.
Motion: The Word was made flesh. He came out of heaven’s glory, and He came to this earth.
Phenomenon: The greatest phenomenon in this world is Jesus Christ. The wonders of the ancient world and the wonders we see in our day are nothing in comparison to the wonder of the Incarnationâ€â€God became man!
These statements are bigger than any of us, and yet they are so simple. We have read them, probably memorized them, yet no man can plumb the depths of them.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.… And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.… No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1:1, 14, 18)
These three verses are the great building blocks. Now let us consider some of the cement that holds them together.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:3)
The Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator. Not only did He exist before Bethlehem, but He created the vast universe, including the material out of which man constructed Bethlehem. All things were made by Him. He is the instrument of creation. Nothing came into existence without Him.

 

[Rick the holypig]

So why would we use a Aramaic word to translate a hebrew idea of a greek word?

For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people (Isaiah 28:11, NKJV).

R7-12

Lame

I can't believe you had the nerve to repost that stupid translation of John 1:1 again.

MONGO TO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND THAT GREEK RULES & ENGLISH RULES FOR WORD ORDER ARE NOT THE SAME. isn't that right MONGO7-12

The word order in greek can only be translated "THE LOGOS WAS GOD"

Well the Bible has you pegged

thinking themselves to be wise they become utter fools.

Hey why don't you post the lame translation for the 45th times & maybe someone will believe you this time become one of your mindless disciples - after all that is what you are here for to try & impress people. what's the matter mommy never show you any love as a child.

Hey Mods how many times are you gonna let this Gnostic repost the same lies that have been disproved 2345235234532453243245 times? It would be one thing if they were posting something new but they have beaten the dead horse until it is now a rug. isn't it time he goes bye bye off to his cult kingdom.

Well while I taught Jr. high, I never taught retarded kids because I don't have the patients for it & Georges & MONGO7-12 are the two most retarded humans i have seen in a long time so i better get off before I loose it

 

[Oscar3]

Hi Everyone
This is my first time posting so please don't attack me. I have been following this thread with great interest.

JGredline I think your tactics are a bit harsh, but you make alot of sense and have affirmed the trinity to me although I really never heard of a Unitarium before.

R7-12
You sound much more eloquent but don't make any sense.

What bothers me the most is that you don't worship Jesus. That you actually believe Jesus is a created being. If this is true then you are preaching another Jesus or another gospel.
Thats what most of the cults do.

Thanks for your time.
Oscar

.

 

[R7-12]

Lame

I can't believe you had the nerve to repost that stupid translation of John 1:1 again.

MONGO TO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND THAT GREEK RULES & ENGLISH RULES FOR WORD ORDER ARE NOT THE SAME. isn't that right MONGO7-12

The word order in greek can only be translated "THE LOGOS WAS GOD"

Well the Bible has you pegged

thinking themselves to be wise they become utter fools.

Hey why don't you post the lame translation for the 45th times & maybe someone will believe you this time become one of your mindless disciples - after all that is what you are here for to try & impress people. what's the matter mommy never show you any love as a child.

Hey Mods how many times are you gonna let this Gnostic repost the same lies that have been disproved 2345235234532453243245 times? It would be one thing if they were posting something new but they have beaten the dead horse until it is now a rug. isn't it time he goes bye bye off to his cult kingdom.

Well while I taught Jr. high, I never taught retarded kids because I don't have the patients for it & Georges & MONGO7-12 are the two most retarded humans i have seen in a long time so i better get off before I loose it

Hi Rick,

I just wanted to apologize to you.

I’m sorry if I have caused you any offense. I did not intend to.

I apologize if I have contributed to your being angry. I didn't intend that either.

You are correct about the word order in Greek.

My mother loved me very much and still does.
My father however, did not, but he is no longer living.

Be well my friend,
R7-12

 

[R7-12]

Hi oscar3,

You said,

What bothers me the most is that you don't worship Jesus. That you actually believe Jesus is a created being. If this is true then you are preaching another Jesus or another gospel.

Likewise, what bothers me the most is that many worship Jesus. That they actually believe Jesus is the immortal God. If this is true (that they believe this) then they are preaching another Jesus or another gospel.

Do you see how it goes both ways equally?

No one can claim to have a higher authority for truth than anyone else. That's why these discussions should not be about those of us who are discussing them, but instead, it should be about what is written.

BTW, welcome to the forum. I hope your time here proves to be a blessing.

R7-12

 

[Georges]

http://www.jewidhencyclopedia.com[/url] and type a search for Memra...of course it won't do you any good...you are predisposed...[/color]

now this use of the word "word" in this verse is the perfect place to add your word Memra because it speaks of God Creating with His WORD but the writer chose to use DABAR.

Again...I think (know) you will find Memra in the Aramaic commentary. Hopefully you have the skills to research that...

There is a hebrew word 'imrah {im-raw'} or 'emrah {em-raw'} that is used for word & is used in the place of the Aramaic word Memra but it means

1) utterance, speech, word

a) word of God, the Torah

#0565 is the strongs number.

Please check your lies before you post them

So why would we use a Aramaic word to translate a hebrew idea of a greek word?

Answer - we wouldn't unless we were trying to cover up a lie.

Are you insane?

So you need to get some new research tools & but the ones from your cult "the Bible Church" away

How about lending me yours....I could use a good laugh....

Mr. Rick.....go to the website that I posted (if you have any guts to check it out).....Somehow I think you won't.....fear maybe?
[/quote:7bbde]

 

[Rick the holypig]

Lame

I can't believe you had the nerve to repost that stupid translation of John 1:1 again.

MONGO TO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND THAT GREEK RULES & ENGLISH RULES FOR WORD ORDER ARE NOT THE SAME. isn't that right MONGO7-12

The word order in greek can only be translated "THE LOGOS WAS GOD"

Well the Bible has you pegged

thinking themselves to be wise they become utter fools.

Hey why don't you post the lame translation for the 45th times & maybe someone will believe you this time become one of your mindless disciples - after all that is what you are here for to try & impress people. what's the matter mommy never show you any love as a child.

Hey Mods how many times are you gonna let this Gnostic repost the same lies that have been disproved 2345235234532453243245 times? It would be one thing if they were posting something new but they have beaten the dead horse until it is now a rug. isn't it time he goes bye bye off to his cult kingdom.

Well while I taught Jr. high, I never taught retarded kids because I don't have the patients for it & Georges & MONGO7-12 are the two most retarded humans i have seen in a long time so i better get off before I loose it

Hi Rick,

I just wanted to apologize to you.

I’m sorry if I have caused you any offense. I did not intend to.

I apologize if I have contributed to your being angry. I didn't intend that either.

You are correct about the word order in Greek.

My mother loved me very much and still does.
My father however, did not, but he is no longer living.

Be well my friend,
R7-12

If I thought you meant it I would accept it but Gnostics only come on christian sites to fight & make people made. that is why you never admit that you have been proved wrong because you didn't come here to talk & learn, you came only to attack & spread your Gnostic lies. You have not heard one thing anyone has said you are a god in your own world & noone can make you see the truth because you have dug out your spiritual eyes.

If John 1:1 says that the LOGOS (JESUS Rev 19:13) is God then all your theology is now dead. so repent of your misdeeds & Join Thomas in crying out to Jesus "MY LORD & MY GOD"!

 

[Solo]

Likewise, what bothers me the most is that many worship Jesus.

It bothers satan also.

 

[Oscar3]

Hi oscar3,

You said,

What bothers me the most is that you don't worship Jesus. That you actually believe Jesus is a created being. If this is true then you are preaching another Jesus or another gospel.

Likewise, what bothers me the most is that many worship Jesus. That they actually believe Jesus is the immortal God. If this is true (that they believe this) then they are preaching another Jesus or another gospel.

Do you see how it goes both ways equally?

No one can claim to have a higher authority for truth than anyone else. That's why these discussions should not be about those of us who are discussing them, but instead, it should be about what is written.

BTW, welcome to the forum. I hope your time here proves to be a blessing.

R7-12

R7-12
By the way. I'm Oscar. What's your name. Unless of course you don't want to share it. I understand. Its just that these are just such personal matters that it would make me feel more comfortable.

Ok. if Jesus is not God then your not a christian correct?
Because a Christian is someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savoir. Why would someone who does not believe Jesus is GOD call himself a Christian. If Jesus is your Lord and Saviour then he would be worthy and demand to be worshiped ? Correct. After all he did allow himself to be worshiped in Matthew 28:17
Did not Mary Magdeline worship Jesus as well?
And correct me if I am wrong but did not Thomas call him my Lord and my God..
The more I think about it the more your views don't make sense to me.
The New Testiment is about Jesus. In particular the 4 Gospels. Why would God not make them about Himself. Why would God create a son and call him God. Forgive me if I don't make sense. I never went to bible school.

Do you have any good websites I could look at?
Thanks Oscar

 

[Rick the holypig]

http://www.jewidhencyclopedia.com[/url] and type a search for Memra...of course it won't do you any good...you are predisposed...[/color]

now this use of the word "word" in this verse is the perfect place to add your word Memra because it speaks of God Creating with His WORD but the writer chose to use DABAR.

Again...I think (know) you will find Memra in the Aramaic commentary. Hopefully you have the skills to research that...

There is a hebrew word 'imrah {im-raw'} or 'emrah {em-raw'} that is used for word & is used in the place of the Aramaic word Memra but it means

1) utterance, speech, word

a) word of God, the Torah

#0565 is the strongs number.

Please check your lies before you post them

So why would we use a Aramaic word to translate a hebrew idea of a greek word?

Answer - we wouldn't unless we were trying to cover up a lie.

Are you insane?

So you need to get some new research tools & but the ones from your cult "the Bible Church" away

How about lending me yours....I could use a good laugh....

Mr. Rick.....go to the website that I posted (if you have any guts to check it out).....Somehow I think you won't.....fear maybe?

[/quote:18085]

No the concept of Memra comes the closest to the greek thought when John wrote his gospel to a Greek Gnostic group. Matthew is the only gospel written to Jews. Mark was written to the romans, Luke to the Greeks & John to the Gnostic Greeks

I know what the Targums is. it's just a uninspired commatary on the Inspired word of God. that is like quoting what Jo Shmo has to say about Jn 1:1 & calling it Scripture. No the Targums is not the inspired word of God, just some teachers ideas on what he thought it shoud say.

I'm the one who told you that the word was Aramaic not Hebrew.


you said

"How about lending me yours....I could use a good laugh.... "

well mine is Vine's, Strongs, Wesley, Matthew henry, JV McGee, Blue Letter bible.org Greek Classes in College where I got a degree in bible. You might not know these because thay are used by REAL CHRISTIANS not sold in the New Age Gnostic book stores.

What do you use. Billy Bob's bible for dummies or the TBN study Bible for the Name it & Claim it cult or the New World's translation of the Bible by the Jw's?

 

[TanNinety]

To Rick the pig,

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,23 gentleness, and self-control.

I bet you believe you are born of the spirit, "born again" believer. Why don't you test your posts with Galatians 5:22 and highlight for yourself what fruits of the spirit that you would claim you have in what you have thus far posted in this thread.

MONGO TO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND THAT GREEK RULES & ENGLISH RULES FOR WORD ORDER ARE NOT THE SAME. isn't that right MONGO7-12

what's the matter mommy never show you any love as a child.

Well while I taught Jr. high, I never taught retarded kids because I don't have the patients for it & Georges & MONGO7-12 are the two most retarded humans i have seen in a long time so i better get off before I loose it

I can count seconds before something like this from Novum would get deleted and he be warned.

Rick, you certainly better get off, either hand lotion or get a wife, it would balance your temperment a little.

If any mod edit or delete my post ..with the same conscience why dont you edit and mod Rick the pig's post?

 

[Klee shay]

[quote="R7-12"3476]

So why would we use a Aramaic word to translate a hebrew idea of a greek word?

For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people (Isaiah 28:11, NKJV).

R7-12

Lame

I can't believe you had the nerve to repost that stupid translation of John 1:1 again.

MONGO TO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND THAT GREEK RULES & ENGLISH RULES FOR WORD ORDER ARE NOT THE SAME. isn't that right MONGO7-12

The word order in greek can only be translated "THE LOGOS WAS GOD"

Well the Bible has you pegged

thinking themselves to be wise they become utter fools.

Hey why don't you post the lame translation for the 45th times & maybe someone will believe you this time become one of your mindless disciples - after all that is what you are here for to try & impress people. what's the matter mommy never show you any love as a child.

Hey Mods how many times are you gonna let this Gnostic repost the same lies that have been disproved 2345235234532453243245 times? It would be one thing if they were posting something new but they have beaten the dead horse until it is now a rug. isn't it time he goes bye bye off to his cult kingdom.

Well while I taught Jr. high, I never taught retarded kids because I don't have the patients for it & Georges & MONGO7-12 are the two most retarded humans i have seen in a long time so i better get off before I loose it[/quote3476]

Rick, GOD'S WORDS are not Gnostic lies, Catholic lies, Protestant lies and whatever denomination you may take exception to. God's words remain Gods and when heaven and earth pass away, they will be all which remain.

R7 is posting scripture - God's words.

Simply because you disagree with the translation doesn't mean God's words change. If you really do believe in God then demonstrate the fruits of perseverance and faith. For you would not fear them being posted as a threat to anyone and call them lies.