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In Calvinism why are the sinners God made responsible for what God has made them?

jasonc said:
Because changes and old English which is confusing.

Case in point .

The kingdom of God suffers violence and the violent take it by force .

It's better said the kingdom advances by force and pressing on.
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Hello jasonc.
Our Lord doesn't advance his Kingdom by force. Evil angels tried to take it by force. Wicked men try to take it by force. A good parable that shows what our King said is,

they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. Mt.21:38

He owns all of it. All live within his Kingdom,

the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. Pro.2:22
 
journeyman said:
Hello jasonc.
Our Lord doesn't advance his Kingdom by force. Evil angels tried to take it by force. Wicked men try to take it by force. A good parable that shows what our King said is,

they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. Mt.21:38

He owns all of it. All live within his Kingdom,

the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. Pro.2:22
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He doesn't ?
So we shouldn't press the Kingdom forward by any means.
If Satan lies ,just listen .
If the lost exist dint teach ,

That's force .no one is physically harmed but you bet that it's a war .

But that is another thread
 
"Jethro Bodine,
[The 'determination' of who is saved and who is not that I'm resisting is the Calvinistic belief that God purposely creates and ordains ahead of time some people to be believers, and purposely creates and ordains ahead of time others to not be believers.]

Hello Jethro,
I think of it this way, simply from scripture;
1] creation, fall ,flood, have already taken place, we have to deal with the reality of the aftermath.
SIN AND DEATH'

2]In scripture we discover that God did not have to wait as a mere onlooker, to see what would happen.

3] I trust God to do right. Gen.18:25

4]God deals with reality which He created for His own good pleasure'

5]He deals with us by way of Covenants.

6]God is Holy , Just, and Good and we are to trust Him 100%

7]Some have "emotional fears" that God is to be blamed and not trusted....Why?

8]JB, neither you nor I wrote the bible...but here it is.

9] First we look to see what it declares, whether we believe it or not.

10]Election, Predestination, ordination, God's Decree, Biblical foreknowledge, and Covenants, are all in there.

11]If anyone confuses or does not understand the differences in the terms, they will fail to get near the truth.

12] We see that take place on message boards every day.

13] Historic Confessions of faith have stood the test of time for a reason.

14]The truth comes through. False confessions fall quickly. Those with a gospel of works, or denying the trinity, fall away,

15] Without a doubt reformed confessions have stood the test of time.



[Of course, insofar as the gospel being preached, and who he saves and who he doesn't save, God does determine who he saves and who he doesn't]

I am glad we agree on this. Of course it has to be this way.


[ based on whether or not they receive and retain the gospel word in believing, not on whether or not he designed and created them to be a believer or not.]

Let's agree on as much as we can before we narrow down your concerns.God saves us for a purpose.
That purpose is to be a part of God's mission of extending Kingdom rule over the earth.
God is going to accomplish this mission.
God is going to save all He can possibly save.
Every single person He has purposed to be saved, will indeed be saved.
Not one will be lost.
He has accomplished redemption, it is an ACTUAL redemption, not a potential redemption.
 
wondering said:
[Romans 9, 10 and 11 are not about personal salvation,]
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Yes, it is. Paul shows that although at one time God singled out one nation, out of which He would harvest some to be believers, the elect remnant, not all of Israel was of Israel.... now salvation goes outside of physical Israel, it goes worldwide to gather each individual, one by one into the Kingdom/
 
Iconoclast said:
I do not have to prove something that does not exist, like ufo"s.
I see now you just try and disrupt truth, and twist wording.I will expose each time you do it.
Little subtle changes in wording to avoid direct answers to questions.
Mixing the wording is hiding and obscuring truth. Why do you do that?
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I have nothing further to say to you.
 
Iconoclast said:
Yes, it is. Paul shows that although at one time God singled out one nation, out of which He would harvest some to be believers, the elect remnant, not all of Israel was of Israel.... now salvation goes outside of physical Israel, it goes worldwide to gather each individual, one by one into the Kingdom/
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No comment.
 
journeyman said:
Not by violence.

Yes, we are in a war, but our swird is the word of God. 😀
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My point was that the Greek isn't clear to translate .it's translated in passive voice which the Greek says the kingdom is the one who acts not received the violence .

If you go to the Adam Clarke commentary he gives an example of that idea and note his isn't a Calvinist
 
wondering said:
I have nothing further to say to you.
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You had nothing to say several days ago, when I outlined 2 pet3...
I know already that you would not answer because You would have to agree, so you diverted away.
No problem.
Maybe you make a good meat sauce, or a good eggplant Parm.That could come in handy!
 
Iconoclast said:
You had nothing to say several days ago, when I outlined 2 pet3...
I know already that you would not answer because You would have to agree, so you diverted away.
No problem.
Maybe you make a good meat sauce, or a good eggplant Parm.That could come in handy!
Click to expand...
Perhaps you'd care to respond to post no. 168 in which I tagged you in.

It's John MaCarthur and John Piper clearing stating that God created evil.
This is the same blasphemy which Jesus accused the Pharisees of when they stated it was satan working the miracle.
Calling a good God evil is blasphemy.

You asked for the proof, this is the second and last time I'll be posting it.

I'm not responsible if you don't even know what your own theologians teach.

And you've certainly personally insulted me enough times to allow me to say that I find calvinists to be rather mean and hardhearted persons. You also have no respect for women.

No need to reply.
 
Free said:
That's not what I've heard from the pulpit. Man has free will, to an extent, and God is absolutely sovereign; the two are held in tension as a mystery, which I think more Christians would do well to do. I think the issue of free will is much more complicated, especially as a student of behavioural science, I understand that there is much more going on in how we make decisions than we realize.

Just searched and found this video/transcript by R.C. Sproul: https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/chosen-by-god/what-is-free-will

'Calvin, in examining the question of free will, says that if we mean by free will that fallen man has the ability to choose what he wants, then of course fallen man has free will. But if we mean by that term that man in his fallen state has the moral power and ability to choose righteousness, then, said Calvin, “free will is far too grandiose a term to apply to fallen man.” And with that sentiment I would agree.'
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Read it.
The question is:
How do we get the inclination?

If God predestinates EVERYTHING from the beginning of time, where does free will come in?

All that talk says nothing.
There is only compatible free will in calvinism.
Simply put, God makes your will, at any given moment, be compatible with what He has already determined. So you think you decided, but it's just God that caused the choice.

God predestinated EVERYTHING.
That needs to sink in.
 
How does a being outside of time express to man how he works.

Does he say he doesn't know our decisions and waits?
 
wondering said:
Perhaps you'd care to respond to post no. 168 in which I tagged you in.

It's John MaCarthur and John Piper clearing stating that God created evil.
This is the same blasphemy which Jesus accused the Pharisees of when they stated it was satan working the miracle.
Calling a good God evil is blasphemy.

You asked for the proof, this is the second and last time I'll be posting it.

I'm not responsible if you don't even know what your own theologians teach.

And you've certainly personally insulted me enough times to allow me to say that I find calvinists to be rather mean and hardhearted persons. You also have no respect for women.

No need to reply.
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The insults come from your keyboard most of the time.
 
Iconoclast said:
You do not know what Calvinists believe at all.
You think you are attacking, but it is a series of strawmen.
To say John Mac says God is the author of sin is ludicrous.
No Reformed confession says any such nonsense.
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Wondering says she understands the Reformed doctrine, she is wrong and has no clue.

Her theology is heretical.

Let it be known she has called the Reformed heretical and believes mary is sinless, as do other members on this board.

Perhaps there should be a thread on who is really saved, I mean born again.

Regenerated.

Grace and peace to you.





Grace and peace to you
 
wondering said:
Perhaps you'd care to respond to post no. 168 in which I tagged you in.

It's John MaCarthur and John Piper clearing stating that God created evil.
This is the same blasphemy which Jesus accused the Pharisees of when they stated it was satan working the miracle.
Calling a good God evil is blasphemy.

You asked for the proof, this is the second and last time I'll be posting it.

I'm not responsible if you don't even know what your own theologians teach.

And you've certainly personally insulted me enough times to allow me to say that I find calvinists to be rather mean and hardhearted persons. You also have no respect for women.

No need to reply.
Click to expand...
Proof those men called the Lord evil.
 
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