In Christianity, Is anybody ever wrong?

[Dorothy Mae]

Are you boasting now? (Lol)

You seem to have me surrounded and I know I can't win this argument discussion, so I'ma bow out before I upset you. I shore doan' wanna do that!

What an adventure your husband must of had/have (?)!!
Now of course I am just kidding and I like boy/girl jokes so am speaking ever so light hearted, ok?

I don’t think you can upset me. And I do know and understand God.

 

[Edward]

Neither of us like to be falsely labeled “stubborn” but if that’s the class you put me in, seldom have I been so honored.

You were able to see the compliment in that! Bravo Sister. I didn't think you would, but I meant it in a good way. You just don't know how I think. But you nailed that one!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You were able to see the compliment in that! Bravo Sister. I didn't think you would, but I meant it in a good way. You just don't know how I think. But you nailed that one!

I did change my text. I actually do not think it wise to accuse God of being stubborn but I was at first being light.

 

[jasonc]

On water baptism ,my reformed church sprinklers water

As does the Lutherans

 

[Free]

So they didnt lay hands on anyone to give them miraculous gifts?

That is besides the point. Yes, God gifted people for certain tasks, but that was only part of it. There were still writings, teaching, and training.

Peter, Paul, and others who had received the miraculous working of the Spirit listed in 1 Cor 12. There were gifts of knowledge and discernment, wisdom, etc. How about Stephen..
And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people. Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen. And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.
Acts 6:8-10
Where did Stephen get this ability and info? It wasn’t from a book. We do see this..
And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
Acts 6:5-6
Philip too went out preaching and working miracles. Was he reading from a book or did he have miraculous memory through the spirit.
What is the gift of ‘knowledge’ if its not miraculous revelation?

Right. So, there were a number of individuals through whom God spoke and gave revelation. Yet, you originally stated, "In Jn 12-16 we have Jesus at the final supper speaking DIRECTLY to the apostles. He was not speaking to you."

If Jesus was "speaking directly to the apostles" and that is used as an argument that "He was not speaking to you," what of all the others you listed that aren't apostles?

The fact is Jesus promised this to the apostles and not to you.
But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Matthew 10:19-20
It doesn’t matter under what condition they were currently in. Peter wasn’t being persecuted in Acts 2 but I don’t think anyone would doubt that it was the Spirit speaking directly through him.

It's a promise for all believers, not just the apostles.

You are correct.
Lk 24 is another part of the great commission just like Mt 28 and in this text he said…
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luke 24:45-48
This isn’t spoken to us today. You havent been a witness to anything. We aren’t beginning in Jerusalem. Can we learn from it? Absolutely. What did Jesus want preached? His death and resurrection, repentance, and remission of sins (which comes through baptism).
But just because he wasn’t speaking directly to us in the great commission doesn’t mean we cant learn from what he said. There are many other passages that tell Christians to spread the word of God.

So, the apostles took the great commission, which Jesus supposedly only commanded them to do, and used it to command other Christians to do. That is essentially what you are saying, correct? Kind of makes your argument that it is only for the apostles rather moot, since the apostles apparently didn't see it that way.

Just like in Jn 16. Are we guided into all truth today? Absolutely.
Through a direct miraculous operation of the Spirit? No. When we read what they wrote we too are being guided into all truth.

Just how are we guided into all truth today if it isn't a direct miraculous operation of the Spirit? Is it all intellect and reasoning?

Yes

Looking at the context:

1Co 13:8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
1Co 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. (ESV)

Prophecies, tongues, and knowledge will cease. When? When the perfect comes. Clearly for Paul, the perfect had not yet come--"For we know in part and we prophesy in part." But what will be the result of the coming of that which is perfect? The result will be seeing "face to face" and "then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."

There are a couple of observations worth making in regards to "when the perfect comes": 1) Paul says that everyone will see "face to face" and 2) Paul says that he will "know fully."

So, how could Paul say to believers back then that they will see "face to face" with the completion of the NT, when that wasn't for some time yet? And what does it even mean to see "face to face" when the NT is completed? Similarly, how could Paul say that he will know fully at the completion of the NT, if the NT was completed until long after he died? How is it that no believer ever since the completion of the NT has known fully?

The argument that "perfect" refers to the completion or compilation of the NT just doesn't make sense given the context. What makes much better sense is the coming of Christ--we can state with certainty that all believers will then see face to face and know fully, even as each of us have been fully known.

 

[Cnkw3]

No I’m not. Like I wrote, believers can, of course, pick out the verses they like and insert their name at will. It doesn’t obligate God to then apply those words to them. Or maybe when they stand before Him, He will insert their name into the verses they didn’t particularly like. Depends upon “the deeds done in the body.”

God is obligated. If he said…He that believes and is baptized shall be saved then if you follow through with his conditions, at that moment you are saved. The reason God is obligated is that in Heb 6:18 we are told……”it is impossible for God to lie”. If he makes a promise and then provides conditions to that promise then you can bank it! It will happen just as he prescribed. Otherwise he is a liar and we know that cant happen.
God is not obligated or do I think he will accept anything other then what he has asked in his will to us. Show me where he is going to accept anything you throw up at him? And again…good luck with that.

 

[Cnkw3]

For anyone else following, God requires us to do justly, love mercy and walk humbly with Him. Micah 6:8. No where are we given procedures to follow to be assured of a desired result sans walking with Him.

First of all….
What does it mean..”to do justly”? Does this mean you can do what ever you want or does it mean, in order to be “just“, you must do what God has asked you to do? I think everyone knows the answer to that. You cant be “just” by doing whatever you want. We are told numerous times that the “just” shall live by faith. Rom 1:17. Where does ”faith” come from? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:17
If you didnt hear God say it than it cant be done in faith. Therefore you aren’t “just” or doing “justly”.

Second.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1 John 1:6-7
You don’t think the Bible gives us “procedures” to follow or has described the way in which a person can ‘walk in the light“? Then how are we to know HOW to walk in the light? I have shown numerous times now that God don’t just accept anything you want to offer up to him. The above passage is for a Christian.
God has given “procedures to follow” in order for us to become saved.….He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. If that is not instructions or “procedures” in order to be “saved” then what in the devil is it?
And then in the first gospel sermon when they asked…what shall we do? Were they given instructions to follow? YES! Repent and be baptized! Why? So that your sins can be removed! What is that? SALVATION.

I hope there are many more people following this discussion because it should be very illuminating.

 

[Cnkw3]

The Lord looks at the heart of men first, and to the doctrine second.

So how could you know? You can't for sure.

Where does the Bible say this? I believe God can and does know your heart by the “doctrine” you follow..

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:9
Show me where we are promised to be judged by our “heart” APART FROM doctrine or the instructions he has given.
I see the Bible saying this….
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Jeremiah 17:9-10
The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.
Prov 10:8
The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge: but the mouth of fools feedeth on foolishness.
Prov 15:14
Im afraid that what you are teaching above is foolishness extending from mans reasoning and not from Gods word..

 

[Dorothy Mae]

God is obligated. If he said…He that believes and is baptized shall be saved then if you follow through with his conditions, at that moment you are saved. The reason God is obligated is that in Heb 6:18 we are told……”it is impossible for God to lie”. If he makes a promise and then provides conditions to that promise then you can bank it! It will happen just as he prescribed. Otherwise he is a liar and we know that cant happen.
God is not obligated or do I think he will accept anything other then what he has asked in his will to us. Show me where he is going to accept anything you throw up at him? And again…good luck with that.

The problem is God is the one who determines if one believed. The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. The heart of a man often lies to him (meaning of deceitful.) So if the man decides that he believes, he might indeed face Jesus who says to him, "depart from me" because that man did not believe according to Jesus. And Jesus is the judge, not us.

Now, one cannot take a document that has a promise made to a man and say that this promise also includes you. God makes that judgement. You admit God, not man, determines who is saved but your basis for deciding you are saved is, in fact, your deciding that you fulfill the conditions, not him.

This is the flaw in your thinking. You have decided that you have fulfilled the conditions as you understand them to be. You read the passages and decided what those conditions are and did them to the letter. I am not saying you are not. But the rich young. ruler also felt that he had fulfilled the conditions for eternal life. Jesus proposed him a test which was NOT in the scriptures at all. Why? Because it revealed the true heart of that man and gave him a chance to fulfill the conditions Jesus expected.

 

[Cnkw3]

That is besides the point. Yes, God gifted people for certain tasks, but that was only part of it. There were still writings, teaching, and training.


Right. So, there were a number of individuals through whom God spoke and gave revelation. Yet, you originally stated, "In Jn 12-16 we have Jesus at the final supper speaking DIRECTLY to the apostles. He was not speaking to you."

If Jesus was "speaking directly to the apostles" and that is used as an argument that "He was not speaking to you," what of all the others you listed that aren't apostles?

Were the apostles able to pass on the miraculous gifts of the Spirit or not? I do not think that any of the others like Barnabas or Timothy were able to have that kind of knowledge until Paul laid his hands on them. The apostles had a measure of the Spirit like nobody else has ever had. They could pass on abilities. Nobody else has ever been able to do that.
If Jesus was speaking to everyone why did the apostles need to lay hands on anyone? Jesus could have worked directly through all individuals. But he didnt.

It's a promise for all believers, not just the apostles.

The Promise to be guided into all truth is a promise for all believers but we do not receive that truth the same way and are not guided in the same way. There’s was through miraculous intervention, and ours is through the Bible they gave us.

So, the apostles took the great commission, which Jesus supposedly only commanded them to do, and used it to command other Christians to do. That is essentially what you are saying, correct? Kind of makes your argument that it is only for the apostles rather moot, since the apostles apparently didn't see it that way.

This is what the apostles taught…
And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
2 Timothy 2:2
Are we to spread Gods word? Absolutely.

Just how are we guided into all truth today if it isn't a direct miraculous operation of the Spirit? Is it all intellect and reasoning?

The only place to get truth today is through the Bible we have been given. When we read what they wrote we too are guided into all truth. The HS was not given directly to us like it was to them.

Looking at the context:

1Co 13:8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
1Co 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. (ESV)

Yes. Look at the context. The context is about knowledge. What were prophecies? Information. Knowledge.
What were tongues used for? To pass on knowledge. How would knowledge cease? Miraculous knowledge would cease. New revelation would cease. We still can have knowledge today when we read ”that which is perfect”. How does Jesus fit in with tongues?
What does “know in part” mean? Themchurches were being given information little by little. Parts at a time. We have it all today on day one. We don’t need to wait for Pauls next letter or for him to stop by and lay hands on more people. We don’t need to hear this..
For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
Romans 1:11
When did miraculous gifts cease? When the last apostle died because gifts could no longer be passed on. Or when the last person who was given them died.

Prophecies, tongues, and knowledge will cease. When? When the perfect comes.

If “the perfect” is Jesus then all the miraculous gifts listed in the previous chapter should be still active today? But, they aren’t. You can claim it all you want but I’ve been around this for forty years and not ONCE have I EVER witnessed a miraculous gift of the Spirit. It was undeniable in the first century. People didnt wonder if what they saw was real or not. People that claim these abilities today are a joke. I heard a radio program recently listing some of the reasons people leave religion and the top two were…
1. Hypocrisy
2. Miraculous. People are told that it still exist but they quickly learn they have been lied to. People in the first century, in the early church, had no doubts about what was happening.

Clearly for Paul, the perfect had not yet come--"For we know in part and we prophesy in part." But what will be the result of the coming of that which is perfect? The result will be seeing "face to face" and "then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."

Yes. Total and complete revelation had not yet come.

 

[Cnkw3]

There are a couple of observations worth making in regards to "when the perfect comes": 1) Paul says that everyone will see "face to face" and 2) Paul says that he will "know fully."

So, how could Paul say to believers back then that they will see "face to face" with the completion of the NT, when that wasn't for some time yet?

I don’t see the problem here. Im sure there were difficulties that came with trying to conduct the Lords business through these miraculous gifts. I believe he is trying to comfort the brethren by telling them its not always gonna be this way. I don’t believe it was that far into the future. I think the whole of the NT was completed before 70 AD.

And what does it even mean to see "face to face" when the NT is completed?

When a glass is held up in front of something the view is not clear. When you are face to face there is no barrier to distort so therefore you can see all you need to see. The difficulties they encountered through these gifts would no longer be a barrier to the church. So Paul would lay his hands on people. Then he would leave. What were the new converts, after Paul left, to do? They were witnessing people with these gifts but now they are left out. There in lies many problems. One would be jealousy. When the completed NT arrives and the gifts cease we, in the church, can see all we need to see and understand.

Similarly, how could Paul say that he will know fully at the completion of the NT, if the NT was completed until long after he died? How is it that no believer ever since the completion of the NT has known fully?

The argument that "perfect" refers to the completion or compilation of the NT just doesn't make sense given the context. What makes much better sense is the coming of Christ--we can state with certainty that all believers will then see face to face and know fully, even as each of us have been fully known.

I believe we have a parallel passage in Ephesians…
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Ephesians 4:11-14
The beautiful thing about the completed revelation is that we ALL can now study it and see if people are trying deceive us. We can see “face to face”. A new convert in the early church would not have had that ability especially if an apostle wasn’t around. This is what I’ve been talking about up til now. When someone tells me to just believe in Jesus and then say some prayer for salvation, I can know that they are deceiving me. I can know it didnt come from truth. Why? Because when I look into that which is perfect I can know ALL I need to know about obeying the gospel and becoming a christian and NOWHERE does “that which is perfect” tell me to just believe and say some prayer for salvation. Now, if I didn’t have “that which was perfect” then I might be more easily persuaded and deceived. Jesus in his second coming is not going to help me with any of that.

 

[Cnkw3]

The problem is God is the one who determines if one believed. The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. The heart of a man often lies to him (meaning of deceitful.) So if the man decides that he believes, he might indeed face Jesus who says to him, "depart from me" because that man did not believe according to Jesus. And Jesus is the judge, not us.

Now, one cannot take a document that has a promise made to a man and say that this promise also includes you. God makes that judgement. You admit God, not man, determines who is saved but your basis for deciding you are saved is, in fact, your deciding that you fulfill the conditions, not him.

What if that promise is made to the entire world. Can I do it then?
Go preach the gospel to EVERY creature. Does that include you? The thought there continues.….
If he (the creature that was preached to and I believe that would include you) believes and is baptized he (the same creature) shall be saved.

This is the flaw in your thinking. You have decided that you have fulfilled the conditions as you understand them to be. You read the passages and decided what those conditions are and did them to the letter. I am not saying you are not. But the rich young. ruler also felt that he had fulfilled the conditions for eternal life. Jesus proposed him a test which was NOT in the scriptures at all. Why? Because it revealed the true heart of that man and gave him a chance to fulfill the conditions Jesus expected.

I do not agree that Jesus tested the ruler with something that was NOT in the scripture. When Jesus listed a few of the 10 commandments he left an important one out. Thou shall not covet. The first four of the Ten Commandments deal with God. The last six deal with mans everyday life and his dealing with his fellow man. And Jesus listed 5 of these 6. I find it interesting that he left covet out. And then he asked the ruler to sell all he had and follow him, but he didnt want to do that because he was rich. To covet means…to yearn to have something. This man coveted his earthly riches. He yearned to be wealthy rather then be poor and follow Jesus. So, I believe Jesus actually did use the scripture to ultimately find out what was truly in this mans heart.

 

[Edward]

The apostles had a measure of the Spirit like nobody else has ever had. They could pass on abilities. Nobody else has ever been able to do that.

Nobody else at all? How do you know for sure?

I think I agree with you that the Apostles had a measure of the Holy Spirit like nobody else ever had...(up until then, and the Apostles were not "the only ones"...they were "The First of many")

 

[eddif]

Nobody else at all? How do you know for sure?

I think I agree with you that the Apostles had a measure of the Holy Spirit like nobody else ever had...(up until then, and the Apostles were not "the only ones"...they were "The First of many")

As was Stephen.

eddif

 

[Edward]

As was Stephen.

eddif

Otherwise they have to throw out the scripture that says , all these things that Jesus did, we will do and more.

John 14:12-18

The Answered Prayer​

12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you [a]ask anything in My name, I will do it.../(NKJV)

And Jesus goes from there right into telling them that, I will send you the Holy Spirit...!!

Jesus Promises Another Helper​

15 “If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.../

 

[Cnkw3]

Nobody else at all? How do you know for sure?

I think I agree with you that the Apostles had a measure of the Holy Spirit like nobody else ever had...(up until then, and the Apostles were not "the only ones"...they were "The First of many")

Well here is how this is going to go…I’m gonna say no they weren’t “the first of many” because people performing miracles as they did in the early church no longer exist. You’re then gonna say…oh yes they do. then I’m gonna say…in 40 years I have NEVER seen a member of the church perform any of those things listed in 1 cor 12. Then you’re gonna say…well you haven’t been in the right places. I’m then gonna point out that the only churches we see with the miraculous had been in contact with an apostle. They were the only ones that could pass these abilities on. Read acts 8. That means since the apostles are dead theses gifts have ceased just as Paul prophesied they would.

 

[Cnkw3]

As was Stephen.

eddif

Stephen was given his ability through the laying on of an apostles hands. Since the apostles are dead that not longer exist nor does it need to.

 

[Cnkw3]

Otherwise they have to throw out the scripture that says , all these things that Jesus did, we will do and more.

John 14:12-18

The Answered Prayer​

12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you [a]ask anything in My name, I will do it.../(NKJV)

And Jesus goes from there right into telling them that, I will send you the Holy Spirit...!!

Jesus Promises Another Helper​

15 “If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.../

What you just quoted means nothing for today. Just because he promised the miraculous power of the Spirit does not mean it would always exist within the Church. lets look at Mk16
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark 16:17-18
This wasn’t a promise for all time. Paul even said…these things would cease. 1 Cor 13. What Jesus promised above did come true. Believers in the first century could do those things listed but it was not to always continue. It was a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel mentioned in Acts 2:16-20. Those in the first century both women and men, Jew and gentile (all flesh) had these abilities given to them by the apostles. Read Acts 19:1-7. When these disciples came across Paul he questioned them and found out their understanding was lacking and corrected that and then gave them this miraculous ability. That is how it went.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What if that promise is made to the entire world. Can I do it then?
Go preach the gospel to EVERY creature. Does that include you? The thought there continues.….
If he (the creature that was preached to and I believe that would include you) believes and is baptized he (the same creature) shall be saved.

The question has to be asked not if one believes but WHAT one believes. You see, all the US cults use scripture. They claim they believe the scripture. So what they believe is very important, not that they believed.

I do not agree that Jesus tested the ruler with something that was NOT in the scripture. When Jesus listed a few of the 10 commandments he left an important one out. Thou shall not covet. The first four of the Ten Commandments deal with God. The last six deal with mans everyday life and his dealing with his fellow man. And Jesus listed 5 of these 6. I find it interesting that he left covet out. And then he asked the ruler to sell all he had and follow him, but he didnt want to do that because he was rich. To covet means…to yearn to have something. This man coveted his earthly riches. He yearned to be wealthy rather then be poor and follow Jesus. So, I believe Jesus actually did use the scripture to ultimately find out what was truly in this mans heart.

He man was already rich but it’s true he valued his power and possessions. The commandment about coveting are specifically about another’s man’s wife or possessions. In any case, neither Paul nor Peter used scripture to measure a man’s heart. Solomon also not. But that’s an interesting take on those verses.

 

[Edward]

This wasn’t a promise for all time. Paul even said…these things would cease. 1 Cor 13. What Jesus promised above did come true. Believers in the first century could do those things listed but it was not to always continue. It was a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel mentioned in Acts 2:16-20. Those in the first century both women and men, Jew and gentile (all flesh) had these abilities given to them by the apostles. Read Acts 19:1-7. When these disciples came across Paul he questioned them and found out their understanding was lacking and corrected that and then gave them this miraculous ability. That is how it went.

Didn't you read the entire passage?

You gotta talking about 1 Corinthians 13:8-10
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is [d]perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

Prophecies will fail..
Tongues will cease.
knowledge will vanish...

But when that which is perfect is come...they will be done away.

Is that which is perfect, has it come yet? That's easy one, NO!!! But why didn't they say healings will cease? Or casting out of demons cease? Or raising the dead? I guess those thigs never ceased.

Prophecying will cease, because that which is perfect has come and fulfilled them all!
Tongues will cease because that which is perfect has come and He'll make the entire earth one language again.
Knowledge will cease because that which is perfect has come and revealed to us all things.

That's what that passage means. None of the gifts ever ceased.