In Christianity, Is anybody ever wrong?

[Edward]

What about someone who does not have a beam, plank, mote, speck, or log in his/her eye? (For instance, someone who has heeded Christ's counsel, and has thus removed whatever beam, plank, mote, speck, or log he/she formerly had lodged in his/her eye.) Is he/she wrong to call attention to the beam, plank, mote, speck, or log in another's eye?

I think the thing about that is, by the time someone reaches that level has learned how to talk in such a way as to be non offensive and yet goes most certainly to the heart of the matter, and always says, just the right thing in just the right way.

I noticed that Jesus is like that. I have asked Him many strange things and while He may not always answer our question, He answers nonetheless, and He always says just the right thing to make one think and not be offeneded. He is so eloquent when He speaks.

But before one can get to the level, in the meantime he has to be politically correct. I'm only so so at speaking diplomat and usually respond to someones attitude. Try to be helpful at first cuz I can see they have something wrong. If they respond positive a good discussion can happen even if there is disagreement on a few points. But sometimes they'll react negatively. Attack you or play the victim. Or challenge you. Hey Christian, gonna turn the othe r cheek now? And smack you or something like that.

I have trouble with those moments for sure and usually am asking forgiveness later, lol.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If "NO ONE has any more truth than anyone else" then how can one person have a log in his/her eye while someone else can have merely a splinter in his/her eye?

You missed my point. I don’t say any of those points are true. They are a rough description of how many modern American christians think. All three are wrong, but the question was asked why they call you names if you say that they are wrong.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think the thing about that is, by the time someone reaches that level has learned how to talk in such a way as to be non offensive and yet goes most certainly to the heart of the matter, and always says, just the right thing in just the right way.

I noticed that Jesus is like that. I have asked Him many strange things and while He may not always answer our question, He answers nonetheless, and He always says just the right thing to make one think and not be offeneded. He is so eloquent when He speaks.

But before one can get to the level, in the meantime he has to be politically correct. I'm only so so at speaking diplomat and usually respond to someones attitude. Try to be helpful at first cuz I can see they have something wrong. If they respond positive a good discussion can happen even if there is disagreement on a few points. But sometimes they'll react negatively. Attack you or play the victim. Or challenge you. Hey Christian, gonna turn the othe r cheek now? And smack you or something like that.

I have trouble with those moments for sure and usually am asking forgiveness later, lol.

“Get behind me Satan” certainly would offend among many other sayings. Jesus certainly offended people and wouldn’t last 5 minutes in many christian circles.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

"I think it is important that we exercise caution when we judge another as being wrong."

I doubt anyone would disagree with that...or, at least, would not admit to disagreeing with that. But, if someone did disagree with it, should we not judge them as being wrong in their disagreement with it? Should we judge another as being wrong for their judging another as being wrong?

"He also spoke of it as Dorothy Mae already mentioned about removing the spec in our own eye before removing the plank in another's (Matthew, Chapter 7)."

What about someone who does not have a beam, plank, mote, speck, or log in his/her eye? (For instance, someone who has heeded Christ's counsel, and has thus removed whatever beam, plank, mote, speck, or log he/she formerly had lodged in his/her eye.) Is he/she wrong to call attention to the beam, plank, mote, speck, or log in another's eye?

"Declaring another person wrong declares yourself to be right and it presents an arrogant position that can close doors rather than opening them."

Should both a person who teaches the earth is round, and a person who contradicts that by teaching that the earth is not round—should each of these persons be declared right in his/her respective teachings, and should neither of them be declared wrong in their respective teachings?

Is it possible to declare a person to have "an arrogant position" without judging them to be wrong?

"Declaring another person wrong declares yourself to be right..."

But also, declaring another person wrong is usually to declare yet another person(s) (someone who is not yourself) to be right. For example, Joe, who teaches that the earth is round, declares that Fred is wrong in teaching that the earth is not round, and thus, in doing so, Joe is not only declaring himself to be right, but he is also declaring many other people besides himself to be right, since many other people agree with Joe that the earth is round, and that those who teach that the earth is not round are wrong. And, if far more people agree with Joe that the earth is round than agree with Fred that the earth is not round, then, for Joe to declare that Fred is wrong is for Joe to declare that far more people are right than are wrong.

"Scripture also tells us that we are not to think more highly of ourselves than we ought."

But, so far as I can tell, Scripture never tells us that for us to think someone else is wrong is for us to think more highly of ourselves than we ought. Am I wrong?

Last paragraph addressed: you are right. The general response among christians as seen above is that many will blame you if they are offended by you telling them the truth. Read the response of people to Jesus. Some certainly were offended. Jesus didn’t blame himself nor think he was proud because he told the truth.

Now it is important that the Holy Spirit within test you if you are proud or not. But telling others they are wrong doesn’t mean you are proud although the cultural norm says it is. However, your motive must be that you love them. This means you need to tell them as you would like to be told that you are wrong.

Paul taught to correct others so that they might receive the benefit. That’s the difference. Not that you win, but that they, in this case, might realize they are not saved (a weighty matter.)

Realize that all the prophets of God who spoke not only truth but powerful words from God offended people and those people killed them. So never use whether someone else is offended or not as the standard. It is the cultural standard but not the godly one.

The standard is letting the HS search your heart and hearing him pronounce judgement whether God approves or disapproves of what you did.

Now a word on pleasing people, if a man’s goal is never to offend others, he is choosing to be a people pleaser and will not want to receive much truth because truth, by definition, challenges untruth. That is unpleasant and offends. It is also walking in the fear of man and not the fear of God. People followed Jesus because he told the truth, which offended their pride on occasion. But for them, the truth was worth the price of pride being offended.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

1.3 Do not post your opinion of another members standing in the Christian faith. Judging someone's soul is not Christ like; only they and God know their relationship with God. This includes collective beliefs and groups in general.

The above is a quote form the rules. There are some problems here.….
1. How are we supposed to determine who to present the gospel to if we don’t pass judgment on their spiritual condition.
Christ has said that we already have what is going to judge us in the end. It’s his word. Jn 12:48.
We are also instructed to judge by using “righteous judgment“. Jn 7:24.
We are told…that all his commandments are righteousness. Ps 119:172.
We can read study and learn exactly what it means to obey the gospel. We can then pass judgment (righteous judgment) on who does it and who doesn’t.

2. Christ like? Is it Christ like to call people….snakes (brood of vipers)? White washed tombs? Full of dead mens bones? You are of your father the devil? You are full of iniquity? (so i cant tell someone they are full of sin because its not ”Christ like”?). HaHa
In Mt 15 he flat out told the scribes and pharisees….in vain you worship me teaching for doctrine the commandments of men. Christ like?
Those approached him in Mt 22 with a question and he flat out told them they were wrong and didnt know their Bible. 22:29. Christ like?

We should all want to be “Christ like”. I don’t believe in getting personal. I attack the doctrine and the doctrine only. It’s not Christ like to let people continue to live in their false doctrines just because the cool preachers of the day are teaching them wrong.

The rules are for this forum, not for living being pleasing to Him. I will PM you more.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's never appropriate to tell another they are wrong because someone does not agree with them as sometimes we find that we were actually wrong. It's better to say "I do not agree with you and then the two of you can discuss with using scripture that of the differences of your understandings.

“If you keep my teachings you will know the truth”

 

[Dorothy Mae]

1.3 Do not post your opinion of another members standing in the Christian faith.

The above is a quote form the rules. There are some problems here.….
1. How are we supposed to determine who to present the gospel to if we don’t pass judgment on their spiritual condition.
Christ has said that we already have what is going to judge us in the end. It’s his word. Jn 12:48.
We are also instructed to judge by using “righteous judgment“. Jn 7:24.
We are told…that all his commandments are righteousness. Ps 119:172.
We can read study and learn exactly what it means to obey the gospel. We can then pass judgment (righteous judgment) on who does it and who doesn’t.

The rule is actually not limited to the forum but wider. The fact is, for us, many people we cannot tell if they belong to Him without a lot of observation which we rarely have access to. Some we know for sure are and some we know for sure are not. However, because it’s not easy, there is the tendency to avoid the question altogether and say we cannot know at all although we don’t actually live like that. There are those who so shutdown any internal discernment that unless you say in words, “I am a believer” they insist that they don’t know. (That a person saying they are doesn’t make it so doesn’t occur to them.)

Discernment in the church is not taught and fairly rare. What is kind of funny is here on online sites is where people write their thoughts, post after post, and if you tell them you understand their thinking, they get mad. Some ask how and the simple answer is you read and remember what they wrote. The west knows Putin wants the old Soviet Union back because he wrote something to that effect long ago.

So one can tell in some but in others we haven’t enough evidence one way or another.

 

[WIP]

Paul E. Michael, my point was that we are to be humble in our approach and in our thought. God calls us to be witnesses, not attorneys and judges.

 

[Cnkw3]

Paul E. Michael, my point was that we are to be humble in our approach and in our thought. God calls us to be witnesses, not attorneys and judges.

I think the whole idea is that we MUST pass judgment to determine what course we should pursue. There is nothing wrong with Judging. We all do it everyday all day long but for some reason when it comes to Gods word I now have no business judging anymore. The one thing in this life that actually matters and we are told not to pass judgment. How backwards can we get in society and sadly….in the church?
I would ask….is there anybody wrong in religion? I’m a Christian so that means….Muslims, Jews, and every other religious view out there is wrong. I have to believe that or I am no Christian.
Within Christianity….Is there anybody wrong?
Paul tells us….
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17
What this says is that If you cant find it in the word of God then it cant be done “in Faith”. You can have no “faith” in something that is not taught in the word of God. That right there is going to eliminate a lot of “Christian” practices.
For example…
I do not celebrate Christmas as Christ birthday. He is not “the reason for the season”. If you can show it to me in Gods word ill change my position. Gods word does say in numerous places…not to add to or take away from his word.
So how can Christians in good conscience add a religious celebration to Gods word that He never cared to mention?
Please tell me how all of these people are NOT adding to Gods word? Something God specifically prohibits.

I just passed judgment on millions of Christians! I guess I am wrong.

 

[Edward]

“Get behind me Satan” certainly would offend among many other sayings. Jesus certainly offended people and wouldn’t last 5 minutes in many christian circles.

I think you're right about this. See any parrellels with David and Goliath too? I do. David walked up and there was some big punk talking crap to God's people about their God. He got offended. He said, what's your guys problem, someone tell him to shut up. No one would cuz they all wanted to be politically correct, lol.
So David moseied on out there and said, Hey punk! And he still wouldn't shut up, so David took him to the woodshed.

I actually think that was very cool response. You got the same thing nowadays. The Atheists and Homo's, and Satanist's have taken to hanging out on the Christian boards and being trolls under the guise of "Teaching" Christians about life, God and how to live! And forgive me if I have a hard time turning the other cheek sometimes, but it's like David said...I know a punk when I see him.

They think they are a giant now because they can cry victim through political correctness. New unspoken rule, if you don't celebrate diversity then you are a troll...To us, Christians, on our board. Because w e beieve in God. There's something wrong with that and sometimes it seems like they let the punks run wild without restraint so somebody has to say something. Those are the people who are here to steal kill and destroy.

SO I don't seem to speak diplomat very well sometimes. Maybe I'll be banned for it one day? Or maybe they could ban the homo's, lol. What a thought! I dunno though, I seem to be able to talk to former Atheists and former homo's without conflict so maybe it's just a natural reaction to a recognition of when somes words are honest and reasonable while others spout nonsense?

Should a Christian be able to be provoked? They sure provoked Jesus enough for Him to go make a whip and come back!

I'll be back. (Terminator voice).

 

[Edward]

“Get behind me Satan” certainly would offend among many other sayings. Jesus certainly offended people and wouldn’t last 5 minutes in many christian circles.

This is a real good point. And Jesus did have a whip, and told them they should have at least a couple swords. Today that translates to small arms. Can't really carry a sword nowadays, they'd put you on the news, lol. So, rifle/pistol pistol/pistol?

Remember that statement Jesus made? ...and the gates of hell shall not prevail over them....? Now think about gates. Gates are at home. Gates are a defensive structure.

Swords, Armor of God, Gates, think not that I come to bring peace but a sword...?? These all add up to, next time Jesus comes, uh, He wont be doing much turning of the other cheek. And you wanna know a secret?! He's already here!

In Christ? Christ in me? Kingdom at hand? Oh yes, He's already here. But don't forget to tell the unbelievers!

 

[for_his_glory]

“If you keep my teachings you will know the truth”

The teachings of Jesus absolutely, but not from man's doctrines.
You have every right to believe what you want, but you also need to be opened to oppositions when you present their doctrines.

 

[for_his_glory]

We should all want to be “Christ like”. I don’t believe in getting personal. I attack the doctrine and the doctrine only. It’s not Christ like to let people continue to live in their false doctrines just because the cool preachers of the day are teaching them wrong.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

John 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 the same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 in him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 and the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.​

 

[for_his_glory]

“Get behind me Satan” certainly would offend among many other sayings. Jesus certainly offended people and wouldn’t last 5 minutes in many christian circles.

But Jesus judgements are righteous, ours not so much.

 

[WIP]

I think the whole idea is that we MUST pass judgment to determine what course we should pursue. There is nothing wrong with Judging. We all do it everyday all day long but for some reason when it comes to Gods word I now have no business judging anymore. The one thing in this life that actually matters and we are told not to pass judgment. How backwards can we get in society and sadly….in the church?
I would ask….is there anybody wrong in religion? I’m a Christian so that means….Muslims, Jews, and every other religious view out there is wrong. I have to believe that or I am no Christian.
Within Christianity….Is there anybody wrong?
Paul tells us….
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17
What this says is that If you cant find it in the word of God then it cant be done “in Faith”. You can have no “faith” in something that is not taught in the word of God. That right there is going to eliminate a lot of “Christian” practices.
For example…
I do not celebrate Christmas as Christ birthday. He is not “the reason for the season”. If you can show it to me in Gods word ill change my position. Gods word does say in numerous places…not to add to or take away from his word.
So how can Christians in good conscience add a religious celebration to Gods word that He never cared to mention?
Please tell me how all of these people are NOT adding to Gods word? Something God specifically prohibits.

I just passed judgment on millions of Christians! I guess I am wrong.

I see your point. Notice that I did not say that we are never to judge. I did say that we need to exercise caution when judging. I also don't think Jesus said that we are never to judge. What I do believe He said was that when we do judge we can expect to be judged with the same measure. Again, use caution for we will bring judgment upon ourselves as well. Technically, we make judgments with every decision we make. We must remember there are consequences for our actions and inactions.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

But Jesus judgements are righteous, ours not so much.

There’s no evidence that Jesus in a man cannot generate righteous judgements. “Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment." …a command of Jesus

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The teachings of Jesus absolutely, but not from what preterist teach.
You have every right to believe what they teach, but you also need to be opened to oppositions when you present their doctrines.

You ought to refrain from attacking my character demonstrated by saying openly I “need to be opened.” The rules require you to address the issue, not the person. And the above is not respecting me. You need to say that you disagree with my position, not that I am lacking in good character (not open.)

In fact, I am quite open and understand more about the position of those I disagree with than they do usually. Jesus himself said that those who convicted him would see his “coming in the clouds” which meant judgement not a misty elevator. He thought that fulfillment would be within the next 40 years. That was Jesus’ teaching on the subject.

 

[jasonc]

There are grey areas in the Bible.

Is a person a heretic because he or she is amil,pre mil,preterist?
Versus
Trinity ,only Jesus is the way


Definition of sins etc

 

[Paul E. Michael]

I do not celebrate Christmas as Christ birthday. He is not “the reason for the season”. If you can show it to me in Gods word ill change my position. Gods word does say in numerous places…not to add to or take away from his word.
So how can Christians in good conscience add a religious celebration to Gods word that He never cared to mention?
Please tell me how all of these people are NOT adding to Gods word? Something God specifically prohibits.

I just passed judgment on millions of Christians! I guess I am wrong.

On another forum website, from which I am banned, someone used the phrase, "Christian holidays." I asked why anyone would call things "Christian holidays" which not only are not promoted in the Bible, but also are not even observed by all Christians. It's just as absurd as calling Fords "Christian cars," despite the fact that not all Christians own or drive Fords.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

But Jesus judgements are righteous, ours not so much.

What do you mean by that?

Obviously it's righteous for Jesus to judge (say) coveting one's neighbor's wealth to be sinful. Is it somehow not righteous, or less righteous, for someone who is not Jesus to judge that coveting one's neighbor's wealth is sinful?