In Christianity, Is anybody ever wrong?

[for_his_glory]

What do you mean by that?

Obviously it's righteous for Jesus to judge (say) coveting one's neighbor's wealth to be sinful. Is it somehow not righteous, or less righteous, for someone who is not Jesus to judge that coveting one's neighbor's wealth is sinful?

What I am saying is only God can judge the intents of the heart. All we can judge is the fruits of the spirit whether they be good or bad fruits that proceed out of the heart.


Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

1Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

You ought to refrain from attacking my character demonstrated by saying openly I “need to be opened.” The rules require you to address the issue, not the person. And the above is not respecting me. You need to say that you disagree with my position, not that I am lacking in good character (not open.)

In fact, I am quite open and understand more about the position of those I disagree with than they do usually. Jesus himself said that those who convicted him would see his “coming in the clouds” which meant judgement not a misty elevator. He thought that fulfillment would be within the next 40 years. That was Jesus’ teaching on the subject.

I am not attacking your character, but the doctrines of man that preterist teach, or any of the various religious doctrines of man that are out there that comes against scripture. You have the right to believe what you want, but be opened to oppositions when they arise in disagreeing with you.

 

[for_his_glory]

There’s no evidence that Jesus in a man cannot generate righteous judgements. “Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment." …a command of Jesus

only God can judge the intents of the heart and if one truly has Christ in them then they will obey His commands and know His teachings, Matthew 7:15-20.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am not attacking your character, but the doctrines of man that preterist teach, or any of the various religious doctrines of man that are out there that comes against scripture. You have the right to believe what you want, but be opened to oppositions when they arise in disagreeing with you.

When you write I am “needing to be open” that is attacking me personally, not my argument. That’s a direct attack on my character.

Also you have judged me. It is not a righteous judgement.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

only God can judge the intents of the heart and if one truly has Christ in them then they will obey His commands and know His teachings, Matthew 7:15-20.

And yet you judge the intents of my heart pronouncing my intent as closed and “needing to be opened.”

 

[Edward]

And yet you judge the intents of my heart pronouncing my intent as closed and “needing to be opened.”

Don't be so thin skinned. I don't think she sounded like she was attacking you. Just talking.. Ease up some. Everything's ok. You are blessed. You are saved. No worries.

(ducks back out side door real fast...)

 

[for_his_glory]

Sometimes we are right and sometimes we are wrong and we need to be opened for correction when others show us with scripture where we made a mistake in our understanding. I've been corrected many times by those who have more Spiritual knowledge than I have and I appreciate the kindness of those corrections.

 

[christian1724]

I think the whole idea is that we MUST pass judgment to determine what course we should pursue. There is nothing wrong with Judging. We all do it everyday all day long but for some reason when it comes to Gods word I now have no business judging anymore.

I agree, though I think a more accurate way to put it would be that there is nothing wrong with 'discerning'. We should (and are expected to ) discern between: good and bad, right and wrong, what is True and what is not True, ...etc. And we should probably be sharing our understanding with others, especially those who we think are in error. But it should be done in a respectful manner.

​

In Christianity, shouldn’t the Bible and ONLY the Bible be our standard for doctrine and practice?

Truth (that which is always reliable, dependable, trustworthy) is what we are all striving for. I don't think God's Word (Truth) is restricted to the Bible. And of course the Bible didn't exist in the apostle's day and for centuries it has been argued what scriptures should be included within it. Some books have been added and removed again, right.

Unless the mind has been vacated by the Holy Spirit, it's very difficult to reject the Truth not matter what the source

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I agree, though I think a more accurate way to put it would be that there is nothing wrong with 'discerning'. We should (and are expected to ) discern between: good and bad, right and wrong, what is True and what is not True, ...etc. And we should probably be sharing our understanding with others, especially those who we think are in error. But it should be done in a respectful manner.

​

Truth (that which is always reliable, dependable, trustworthy) is what we are all striving for. I don't think God's Word (Truth) is restricted to the Bible. And of course the Bible didn't exist in the apostle's day and for centuries it has been argued what scriptures should be included within it. Some books have been added and removed again, right.

Unless the mind has been vacated by the Holy Spirit, it's very difficult to reject the Truth not matter what the source

What does the mind being vacated by the HS mean exactly?

And for sure and certain people reject truth they don’t like HS or no. It’s actually very hard to accept the truth. Look at disagreements here. Assuming one of them has the truth, the other is rejecting it full force at times.

 

[Cnkw3]

There are grey areas in the Bible.

Is a person a heretic because he or she is amil,pre mil,preterist?
Versus
Trinity ,only Jesus is the way


Definition of sins etc

I might agree slightly and would not call someone a heretic because they have been mislead, but what you posted above does not seem grey to me.
The Bible does not teach that Jesus will return to set up a kingdom here on earth. People pick passages like Rev 20 and Zech 14 and none of these mention a second coming. I find it funny when people think that the Old Testament prophets like Zech are looking forward to a second coming when Christ had not even come the first time. “The day of the Lord” has different meanings in the Bible. It does not always mean a second coming.
So the amil, premil is out. The Bible clearly teaches in Mt 24 and Lk 21 that Jesus would come back and declare judgment on Jerusalem and destroy the temple which he did in AD70. This is referred to as a “coming” or “day” of the Lord.
Trinity? Not a phrase that is in the Bible but the idea definitely is. The Bible uses the phrase Godhead. It is clearly taught that there is a father, son, and HS. All are called God. I’m just curious about some other grey areas you might be referring to? I believe with a little bit of study they wont be as grey as you think.

 

[Cnkw3]

I don't think God's Word (Truth) is restricted to the Bible.

You just highlighted in one short sentence what is wrong with Christianity today.
This means you can have a feeling or thought and others can have a feeling or thought. You claim it is from God and that can be accounted as “truth” and nobody can say anything about it. You sure cant prove you got it from God. How horrible! The Bible that we have has all we need.

And of course the Bible didn't exist in the apostle's day

The OT did. They were in the process of creating the NT. This is why the “gifts of the Holy Spirit“ were given. This was how they could teach, learn, and practice Christianity without the completed revelation. This is what Paul spoke of in1 Cor 13.
Truth in the first century was confirmed through the miraculous. Mk 16:17-20
Since there is no miraculous today truth is confirmed through book, chapter, and verse of the Bible we have been given that was created though the miraculous.

and for centuries it has been argued what scriptures should be included within it. Some books have been added and removed again, right.

Unless the mind has been vacated by the Holy Spirit, it's very difficult to reject the Truth not matter what the source

I keep hearing people say….but there were other books. There should be more. Do you really think they would say anything different then what these already say? John tells us that there could be VOLUMES more we could have about Jesus but what we have is sufficient to create faith in a person.

We are told in many places, actually commanded, to be of one mind, come to the same understanding, that there should be unity. The ONLY WAY to achieve that is if we ALL use the same standard. And that standard are the books of the Bible we have been given.

 

[Edward]

Since there is no miraculous today truth is confirmed through book, chapter, and verse of the Bible we have been given that was created though the miraculous.

You should get out more friend. There is the miraculous today. I have quite a few Testimonies, how many would you like to hear? Have you ever did a search for miracles or testamonies on Youtube and watch some accounts on there? Ask the Holy Spirit to confirm for you which ones are true and which ones are not. And He will. He did for me.

I'm not discounting the Word in the least. That is a supernatural book. Geez, Genesis 1:1 is Pi they discovered! That's no coincidence. But God does not change, so the miracles never really ceased. There seems to be more miracles happening overseas rather than inside the US, but that's because we were the lucky ones to be selected to be indoctrinated against miracles. But now we have internet! So the word on miracles is getting around and they are on the rise in the US now...(barely).

God wont leave you hanging. He promised to never leave you or forsake you. But! you are the one which has to reach for it. You, must get out of the boat and committed towards the water in faith before the Lord makes it support you. You have to be in His hands!

That's when it works. That's when miracles happen.

 

[Edward]

The ONLY WAY to achieve that is if we ALL use the same standard. And that standard are the books of the Bible we have been given.

Are you sure? I mean, doesn't it say, in scripture one faith one spirit one God?
I found it. Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in [c]you all.../

It doesn't say one book. Scriptures are precious and our main key, but God said that in the last days that He will pour out His Spirit on all flesh and knowledge will be increased. Now a lot of this is done with the scriptures, new discoveries in the scriptures happen all the time now because of computers. Bible codes and such. Plus, Holy Spirit gives new revelation on scriptures to Teachers and Pastors and they come out with new light. But when we talk about the word of God, we have to be careful what we're talking about because there's two interpsretations. One is Logos, which means the written word...the Bible. The other is Rhema which means the voice of God. It's that still small voice of His.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God....that doesn't mean hearing a preacher talk.
Faith comes by hearing the voice of God. That's a better translation of that.

I've heard countless testimonies of people who have been hearing from God, and He is telling them new things and says go tell my people. This stuff is not all in scripture. None of it disagrees with scripture either.

Can you hear the still small voice of God inside you Brother? You know how I learned to hear Him?
It had to start out like a game. (As a child! It takes the same amount of detachment from "reality" "Logic" and all that stuff as playing with a child takes!). It goes like this:
I pray, say something to the Lord. I'm about to go to work Lord, will you come too and ride with me and we'll talk?
(and the rule is, the first thing that pops into your head is this unseen beings answer)
Sure, let's go.
(and I would leave for work and "pretend" that I have my best friend with me. and one does not ignore their best friend, we talk)
(Me, trying to keep it sspiritual, lol): What about this Lord?
(sometimes a scripture would pop into my head, sometimes I'd remember a point a preacher made somewhere, sometimes He'd change the subject with a better question, but could it be a reasonable answer to what I asked? Yes it was)
(Him): Wouldn;t a better question be, da da da?

And it was weird because these things I heard inside of me could be real answers in a conversation with an unseen being. I am not going insane hearing voices here, I'm simply "playing a game". right? So everything's ok. I must just be good at this game, lol! But still, privately in my little secret place inside of me, I am feeling that, this is the real deal here or at the very least, at least coud be. Only way to be able to tell is to "play" more!

And so I kept it talking with the Lord and listening for the voice which answered me. And it turned into a regular conversation and went long enough that I was able to notice differences in HIS grammatical speech patterns. He don't talk like I do! And He always seems to say just the right thing. It's eerie and comforting at the same time. It's harder to learn than it is to do.

Now I have no problem hearing Him. And believe me, He doesn't always say what I like to hear. But he always keeps me out of trouble and dat's a fact. So here I am and carry on Lord!
I asked Him one time...(I was saved around 12 or 14 but backsliid for 30 whatever years when I got old enough to see girls and then get married...)

Me: Lord I'm sorry that I wasted all that time in my life not working for you and the Kingdom...
Him: I forgive you...
Me: Where would I be right now Lord, if I hadn't wasted all that time?
Him: Right where you are now.
Me: (Tilt)

I'm not sure if that was a compliment or a criticism, lol.

 

[T. E. Smith]

In Galatians 2:14, we see, "But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, 'If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?'" Paul had no discomfort rebuking the most prominent of all the apostles.

1 Timothy 5:20 says, "As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear." The context for this may be the rebuking of elders (v. 17). Titus 2:15 says, "Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you."

In other words, the epistles teach that it is appropriate to rebuke "with all authority" when necessary, and that the goal should even to be to cause fear. It is good to rebuke even elders and apostles, too. In fact, rebuking is not just permitted or recommended, but commanded.

 

[christian1724]

We are told in many places, actually commanded, to be of one mind, come to the same understanding, that there should be unity. The ONLY WAY to achieve that is if we ALL use the same standard. And that standard are the books of the Bible we have been given.

Which mind? The mind that canonized a book or the mind that kicked it back out years later? This sort of thinking reveals a mangled concept of what Truth is! If Truth is no more reliable than that, then why waste your time searching for it?

No brother, the concept of Truth is pretty clear:

• Truth is that which is ALWAYS reliable, trustworthy.
• Truth is objective.

So, if you rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit, then you won't have to rely on which books were or were not selected by some early 'church father'. As was stated in a previous comment, rely on God's Word and not the human distributors of it.

 

[christian1724]

... And for sure and certain people reject truth they don’t like HS or no. It’s actually very hard to accept the truth. Look at disagreements here. Assuming one of them has the truth, the other is rejecting it full force at times.

Yes, sometimes it is actually very hard to accept the Truth.
But what's even more difficult is to reject the Truth once you encounter and understand it. It is a direct finger in the eye of our Father and the Holy Spirit which leads us. If a person keeps sticking their finger in His Eye they may find themselves without the Spirit of Truth to lead them. This is a particularly woeful position to be in.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, sometimes it is actually very hard to accept the Truth.
But what's even more difficult is to reject the Truth once you encounter and understand it. It is a direct finger in the eye of our Father and the Holy Spirit which leads us. If a person keeps sticking their finger in His Eye they may find themselves without the Spirit of Truth to lead them. This is a particularly woeful position to be in.

You would be surprised to know how many do this.

 

[christian1724]

You would be surprised to know how many do this.

I don't think so, I see it continually every day in it's various forms. Even on this site I see it occasionally. I pray that none of us reach that point which was warned about in scripture. Thankfully, God is abundant patience and forgiveness. Much more so than we tend to be.

 

[Cnkw3]

You should get out more friend. There is the miraculous today. I have quite a few Testimonies, how many would you like to hear? Have you ever did a search for miracles or testamonies on Youtube and watch some accounts on there? Ask the Holy Spirit to confirm for you which ones are true and which ones are not. And He will. He did for me.

I'm not discounting the Word in the least. That is a supernatural book. Geez, Genesis 1:1 is Pi they discovered! That's no coincidence. But God does not change, so the miracles never really ceased. There seems to be more miracles happening overseas rather than inside the US, but that's because we were the lucky ones to be selected to be indoctrinated against miracles. But now we have internet! So the word on miracles is getting around and they are on the rise in the US now...(barely).

God wont leave you hanging. He promised to never leave you or forsake you. But! you are the one which has to reach for it. You, must get out of the boat and committed towards the water in faith before the Lord makes it support you. You have to be in His hands!

That's when it works. That's when miracles happen.

That’s all you get today…”testimony”. I don’t need your stories. I need people to demonstrate. The works done in the Bible were demonstrated works that were verifiable. None of that happens today. There are plenty of so called Miracle gift believers and teachers where I live and NOBODY has ever demonstrated anything. And no, I’m not going to go get it off of you tube. Its all true on you tube isn’t it?

 

[Cnkw3]

Are you sure? I mean, doesn't it say, in scripture one faith one spirit one God?
I found it. Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in [c]you all.../

It doesn't say one book.

it says…one faith. that one faith refers to one doctrine, one teaching, one gospel. It is “the faith“ that justifies Gal 2:16, It is “the faith” we are to contend for. It is ‘The faith“ that both Paul and Peter preached. Gal 1:23. And that faith can only be found in the one book.

Scriptures are precious and our main key, but God said that in the last days that He will pour out His Spirit on all flesh and knowledge will be increased. Now a lot of this is done with the scriptures, new discoveries in the scriptures happen all the time now because of computers. Bible codes and such. Plus, Holy Spirit gives new revelation on scriptures to Teachers and Pastors and they come out with new light. But when we talk about the word of God, we have to be careful what we're talking about because there's two interpsretations. One is Logos, which means the written word...the Bible. The other is Rhema which means the voice of God. It's that still small voice of His.

All flesh? refers to Jew and gentile. That was fulfilled in acts 2 and acts 10 And demonstrated in the first century church. We are also told that those miraculous gifts would cease. 1 Cor 13

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God....that doesn't mean hearing a preacher talk.

it does if the preacher is using book chapter and verse

Faith comes by hearing the voice of God. That's a better translation of that.

I've heard countless testimonies of people who have been hearing from God, and He is telling them new things and says go tell my people. This stuff is not all in scripture. None of it disagrees with scripture either.

We are told to prove all things, hold fast to that which is good. 1 thes 5:21
We are told…
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:1
Paul said something similar in Gal 1:6-9
1 cor 14 tells us God is not the author of confusion. What you are promoting leads to nothing but confusion. That’s how i know its not from truth.

Can you hear the still small voice of God inside you Brother? You know how I learned to hear Him?
It had to start out like a game. (As a child! It takes the same amount of detachment from "reality" "Logic" and all that stuff as playing with a child takes!). It goes like this:
I pray, say something to the Lord. I'm about to go to work Lord, will you come too and ride with me and we'll talk?
(and the rule is, the first thing that pops into your head is this unseen beings answer)
Sure, let's go.
(and I would leave for work and "pretend" that I have my best friend with me. and one does not ignore their best friend, we talk)
(Me, trying to keep it sspiritual, lol): What about this Lord?
(sometimes a scripture would pop into my head, sometimes I'd remember a point a preacher made somewhere, sometimes He'd change the subject with a better question, but could it be a reasonable answer to what I asked? Yes it was)
(Him): Wouldn;t a better question be, da da da?

How do you know its not Satan talking back? He plays a part in this world too.

And it was weird because these things I heard inside of me could be real answers in a conversation with an unseen being. I am not going insane hearing voices here, I'm simply "playing a game". right? So everything's ok. I must just be good at this game, lol! But still, privately in my little secret place inside of me, I am feeling that, this is the real deal here or at the very least, at least coud be. Only way to be able to tell is to "play" more!

And so I kept it talking with the Lord and listening for the voice which answered me. And it turned into a regular conversation and went long enough that I was able to notice differences in HIS grammatical speech patterns. He don't talk like I do! And He always seems to say just the right thing. It's eerie and comforting at the same time. It's harder to learn than it is to do.

Now I have no problem hearing Him. And believe me, He doesn't always say what I like to hear. But he always keeps me out of trouble and dat's a fact. So here I am and carry on Lord!
I asked Him one time...(I was saved around 12 or 14 but backsliid for 30 whatever years when I got old enough to see girls and then get married...)

Me: Lord I'm sorry that I wasted all that time in my life not working for you and the Kingdom...
Him: I forgive you...
Me: Where would I be right now Lord, if I hadn't wasted all that time?
Him: Right where you are now.
Me: (Tilt)

I'm not sure if that was a compliment or a criticism, lol.

Again, I say…how do you know its not the devil? The devil likes scripture and Gods word too. It’s what he has used in the past.