In Christianity, Is anybody ever wrong?

[Cnkw3]

Which mind? The mind that canonized a book or the mind that kicked it back out years later? This sort of thinking reveals a mangled concept of what Truth is! If Truth is no more reliable than that, then why waste your time searching for it?

No brother, the concept of Truth is pretty clear:

• Truth is that which is ALWAYS reliable, trustworthy.
• Truth is objective.

So, if you rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit, then you won't have to rely on which books were or were not selected by some early 'church father'. As was stated in a previous comment, rely on God's Word and not the human distributors of it.

The mind of Christ. 1 cor 2:16. this directly follows the command he gave in 1:10
The best thing you said was….truth is objective. That is correct
The HS directly talking to you is subjective because you cant prove any of it. So this message could just as likely be from the devil.

 

[eddif]

When is it appropriate to tell someone they are wrong or that they are not adhering to truth?

How should one go about doing that? In Christianity, shouldn’t the Bible and ONLY the Bible be our standard for doctrine and practice? 1 pet 4:11. Col 3:17
If someone is practicing doctrine that cannot be found in the NT; Is that wrong? If not, why not?
For example…
You have Baptist and many other Denoms teaching that you MUST tithe if you want to be faithful to God. That is not a NT doctrine; so am I a bad person if I tell you that you are wrong?
You have other Denoms sprinkling babies for baptism. That is not a NT doctrine; so am I wrong if I point that out and tell you that you need to stop and get it right?

The way error is supposed to be revealed.
Galatians 6:1 and following
Step 1 / private talk
Matthew 18:17
Step 2 / take a second spiritual person to tal
Step 3 / take it before the church
Step 4 / if needed kick him out of the church
Step 5 / 1 Corinthians 5:5 turn over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.
At any point the person repents -stop the steps and welcome him into full fellowship.

Romans 1:20 creation teaches truth about God

Google text with favorite web site.
Turn over to Satan (Bible hub)

I will try and keep up with the thread. Be humble.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Cnkw3]

The way error is supposed to be revealed.
Galatians 6:1 and following
Step 1 / private talk
Matthew 18:17
Step 2 / take a second spiritual person to tal
Step 3 / take it before the church
Step 4 / if needed kick him out of the church
Step 5 / 1 Corinthians 5:5 turn over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh.
At any point the person repents -stop the steps and welcome him into full fellowship.

Romans 1:20 creation teaches truth about God

Google text with favorite web site.
Turn over to Satan (Bible hub)

I will try and keep up with the thread. Be humble.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

I like Gal 6:1. That’s a good one. Thanks for pointing that out

Matt and 1 Cor wont really work because the folks I’m talking about are in a church but not the church and we don’t worship together so those wont really work. It definitely wont work in settings such as this too.

 

[eddif]

I like Gal 6:1. That’s a good one. Thanks for pointing that out

Matt and 1 Cor wont really work because the folks I’m talking about are in a church but not the church and we don’t worship together so those wont really work. It definitely wont work in settings such as this too.

I post here and abide by TOS here.
eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I don't think so, I see it continually every day in it's various forms. Even on this site I see it occasionally. I pray that none of us reach that point which was warned about in scripture. Thankfully, God is abundant patience and forgiveness. Much more so than we tend to be.

I see more believers refuse the truth than embrace it. Some go so far as to say no one can be sure they have truth. The idea that we might all be wrong is real to them. So they easily reject the truth they don’t like. You show them Bible verses and they ignore them or give obtuse excuses why that doesn’t apply. These kind are more prevalent than those who “search the scriptures to see if these things be so.” The latter are very rare.

 

[christian1724]

Which mind? The mind that canonized a book or the mind that kicked it back out years later?

The mind of Christ. 1 cor 2:16. this directly follows the command he gave in 1:10

Did the mind of Christ canonize some books and then later remove them? Help me out here.

The best thing you said was….truth is objective. That is correct

Thanks, at least I got one thing right!

The HS directly talking to you is subjective because you cant prove any of it. So this message could just as likely be from the devil.

If I've read Luke 11:2-13 and then prayed that the our Father send me the Spirit of Truth to draw me to His Word and to understand it, do you think the devil might hijack it so to speak? Thank you for your help by the way.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Did the mind of Christ canonize some books and then later remove them? Help me out here.

No, it was a different and somewhat out of the hands of a few men process.

Thanks, at least I got one thing right!


If I've read Luke 11:2-13 and then prayed that the our Father send me the Spirit of Truth to draw me to His Word and to understand it, do you think the devil might hijack it so to speak? Thank you for your help by the way.

Sorry, Jesus said that those who
keep his teaching will know the truth. You can ask for wisdom which God gives generously. But just praying without the obedience is less likely to lead one into truth.

There’s a poster here who
claims God has revealed mysteries to him but his posts are so esoteric, they fail at the test of God actually speaking, for example. He claims it not infrequently, but doesn’t realize that we then are required to test his words. Not required by an opinion expressed.

The outcome is a man rather proud of this “secret” knowledge which lacks the character of a real word to someone from God. This can come from someone thinking I’ll ask the HS to show me the truth sans me having to obey and whatever pops into my head is Him. Make no mistake, I’ve seen it happen.

 

[christian1724]

If I've read Luke 11:2-13 and then prayed that the our Father send me the Spirit of Truth to draw me to His Word and to understand it, do you think the devil might hijack it so to speak? Thank you for your help by the way.

Sorry, Jesus said that those who
keep his teaching will know the truth. You can ask for wisdom which God gives generously. But just praying without the obedience is less likely to lead one into truth.

So that wasn't meant for me, Wow. How sad... for me anyway. How did you know all of this? Serves me right for sticking my nose into the theology forum.

...There’s a poster here who
claims ... Make no mistake, I’ve seen it happen.

Yeah, I know who you are talking about. Pity him. Pity us both I suppose.

 

[Cnkw3]

Did the mind of Christ canonize some books and then later remove them? Help me out here.

Which books would you like back in? You seem to think that we are lacking something.

If I've read Luke 11:2-13 and then prayed that the our Father send me the Spirit of Truth to draw me to His Word and to understand it, do you think the devil might hijack it so to speak? Thank you for your help by the way.

you already have the total revealed will of God given to you by the Spirit. Do you really think the Spirit will come and tell you something different? If so, give me an example.
If it is different then his revealed will then yes you can know it was from the devil.

I‘ll start out by giving you an example I’ve heard countless times.
…..“I was in my bed one night and this warm sensation fell over me and I could tell it was the presence of God and so I got down on my knees, prayed that he would forgive me my sins and I knew right then I was saved, born again and cried the rest of the night.”
Ever heard that one before? The problem is…..It’s not Biblical! Nowhere was anyone in the new covenant EVER “saved” “born agin” in that way. Nobody EVER had an experience and then fell down and prayed and was then declared saved. Sins removed. NEVER.
Cornelius prayed. he was told to send for a preacher
Saul prayed for three days. Guess what? He was sent a preacher
The Eunuch was having a hard time in Acts 8. Did the Spirit come and save him? Yes. By sending a preacher. He did not act directly on the man.
And none of these people were told to get down and pray. They were all told to be baptized to wash away their sins.
So yea. You can ask for the Spirit all you want but God has already given him to all of us in the form of the written word.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So that wasn't meant for me, Wow. How sad... for me anyway. How did you know all of this? Serves me right for sticking my nose into the theology forum.

Jesus said that’s how one knows the truth. I can explain why as well and it’s makes perfect sense but it’s more detail.

Yeah, I know who you are talking about. Pity him. Pity us both I suppose.

I don’t pity you. Should I?

 

[Edward]

it says…one faith. that one faith refers to one doctrine, one teaching, one gospel. It is “the faith“ that justifies Gal 2:16, It is “the faith” we are to contend for. It is ‘The faith“ that both Paul and Peter preached. Gal 1:23. And that faith can only be found in the one book.

All flesh? refers to Jew and gentile. That was fulfilled in acts 2 and acts 10 And demonstrated in the first century church. We are also told that those miraculous gifts would cease. 1 Cor 13

it does if the preacher is using book chapter and verse

We are told to prove all things, hold fast to that which is good. 1 thes 5:21
We are told…
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:1
Paul said something similar in Gal 1:6-9
1 cor 14 tells us God is not the author of confusion. What you are promoting leads to nothing but confusion. That’s how i know its not from truth.

How do you know its not Satan talking back? He plays a part in this world too.

Again, I say…how do you know its not the devil? The devil likes scripture and Gods word too. It’s what he has used in the past.

k so you can not hear the still small voice of God. You're too scared it be the Devil, BOO!

What do you think will happen? Start to pray to God and the devil steps inwith a couple lies, boom all of a sudden, Im selling my soul to the enemy...is that what you really think?

You can't trust hearing testimonies, they all be lies. Come on, let me tell you a testimony. I promise it's true. No reason to lie about it. Oh, I will need your debit card number first..lol.

So do you even believe in the spiritual world? Or is Christianity all about what you can see feel and hear? I got my Bible so I don't don't need any stinking Prophets or testimonies? I see you list a lot of your favirite scriptures too. Did you miss a couple? How about...

2 Corinthians 4:
18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.../

Everybody except you, right? Cuz you don't wanna be tricked by any Devil!

2 Timothy 1:4
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.../

Perhaps you should ponder this one?

John 10:
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.../

Uh-oh, it doesn't say no demon can pluck them out of my hand! Maybe the demons are stronger than Jesus?!
Is that what you are saying??!!

 

[Edward]

How do you know its not Satan talking back? He plays a part in this world too.

So, are you really saying that one can pray to God when they need help, that the prayer can somehow be intercepted and a Devil show up and speak instead of God?

So God doesn't have His own Norton Prayer security??

So would you like to hear about the time the police were looking for me to arrest me, and I prayed for help to not be arrested? I very distinct voice spoke and said to me, turn left up the next alley. now turn right. Stop here and rest. Now go quickly, go right....

And so forth and so on. There was three cars looking for me in the neighbrohood and I was hurt so couldn't walk far. Every once in awhile, as I was crossing an intersection, I would see them drive by a couple blocks down. They never found me. My praye r was answered, Praise the Lord!

Now are you saying that a Devil showed up and mislead me to make me think that God was speaking....and the nice little demon saved me from being arrested?

Um, it doesn't really work like that bro.

 

[Edward]

it does if the preacher is using book chapter and verse

It sounds to me like you are denying the existance of Rhema's.

You have to find a way to have Rhema'a in your construct, because scripture sure talks about them!

 

[christian1724]

you already have the total revealed will of God given to you by the Spirit.

There is a difference between having the Truth set before you and understanding it, is there not?

Do you really think the Spirit will come and tell you something different?

Oh my, did I say that? I don't think so. You'll need to quote me on that please.

Our topic is:
Truth is the Word of God (which is reliable, ... always)
The necessity of the Holy Spirit to draw people to the Truth.

If so, give me an example.

Ok. I'd like to understand Ezekiel 17. The whole chapter is a riddle to the house of Israel. I'll give ear to your explanation if you're willing to share that with me.

If so, give me an example.

Help me understand the passages in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9. What does it mean when it refers to those who say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue or satan.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

If so, give me an example.

Help me understand the blessing given to Joseph's family beginning at Genesis 49:22. How is that applying today?

I‘ll start out by giving you an example I’ve heard countless times.
…..“I was in my bed one night and this warm sensation fell over me and I could tell it was the presence of God and so I got down on my knees, prayed that he would forgive me my sins and I knew right then I was saved, born again and cried the rest of the night.”
Ever heard that one before? The problem is…..It’s not Biblical!

You should take that up with the people who have told you that. I can't speak to their experiences, I can only speak for my own, surely you can understand that. Let's be honest, why did you even bring that up to me? Are you just trying make fun of somebody's spiritual experience? What's the point of that in the this forum?

Thank you for what I hope will be a well thought response.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

you already have the total revealed will of God given to you by the Spirit. Do you really think the Spirit will come and tell you something different? If so, give me an example.

Paul wanted to go to Asia and the spirit told him to go elsewhere. This is the Spirit revealing something else but not against known scripture.

If it is different then his revealed will then yes you can know it was from the devil.

Nothing devilish about being told to go west instead of east.

I‘ll start out by giving you an example I’ve heard countless times.
…..“I was in my bed one night and this warm sensation fell over me and I could tell it was the presence of God and so I got down on my knees, prayed that he would forgive me my sins and I knew right then I was saved, born again and cried the rest of the night.”
Ever heard that one before?

I have never ever heard this. Sensing the presence of God by an atheist? Never. Seeing your sin? Mentioned in many places in the Bible. Knowing you are saved with no preaching? Doubtful.

You: The problem is…..It’s not Biblical! Nowhere was anyone in the new covenant EVER “saved” “born agin” in that way. Nobody EVER had an experience and then fell down and prayed and was then declared saved. Sins removed. NEVER.
Me:
Is any individual declared “already saved” in the Bible?

Cornelius prayed. he was told to send for a preacher
Saul prayed for three days. Guess what? He was sent a preacher
The Eunuch was having a hard time in Acts 8. Did the Spirit come and save him? Yes. By sending a preacher. He did not act directly on the man.
And none of these people were told to get down and pray. They were all told to be baptized to wash away their sins.
So yea. You can ask for the Spirit all you want but God has already given him to all of us in the form of the written word.

I don’t think God is limited to the Word already given and is otherwise silent.

 

[Cnkw3]

k so you can not hear the still small voice of God. You're too scared it be the Devil, BOO!

What do you think will happen? Start to pray to God and the devil steps inwith a couple lies, boom all of a sudden, Im selling my soul to the enemy...is that what you really think?

You can't trust hearing testimonies, they all be lies. Come on, let me tell you a testimony. I promise it's true. No reason to lie about it. Oh, I will need your debit card number first..lol.

So do you even believe in the spiritual world? Or is Christianity all about what you can see feel and hear? I got my Bible so I don't don't need any stinking Prophets or testimonies? I see you list a lot of your favirite scriptures too. Did you miss a couple? How about...

2 Corinthians 4:
18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.../

Everybody except you, right? Cuz you don't wanna be tricked by any Devil!

2 Timothy 1:4
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.../

Perhaps you should ponder this one?

John 10:
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.../

Uh-oh, it doesn't say no demon can pluck them out of my hand! Maybe the demons are stronger than Jesus?!
Is that what you are saying??!!

So Satan does not exist?
1 pet 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Your John 10 passage says….”no MAN is able to pluck them out”. Doesn’t say the devil Can’t. Pick another passage. And, how would the devil do that?
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Satan makes it look and sound right!

You mock the idea of relying on the book.
When Jesus was tempted by the devil in the wilderness; what did he rely on? IT IS WRITTEN!

 

[Cnkw3]

So, are you really saying that one can pray to God when they need help, that the prayer can somehow be intercepted and a Devil show up and speak instead of God?

So God doesn't have His own Norton Prayer security??

So would you like to hear about the time the police were looking for me to arrest me, and I prayed for help to not be arrested? I very distinct voice spoke and said to me, turn left up the next alley. now turn right. Stop here and rest. Now go quickly, go right....

And so forth and so on. There was three cars looking for me in the neighbrohood and I was hurt so couldn't walk far. Every once in awhile, as I was crossing an intersection, I would see them drive by a couple blocks down. They never found me. My praye r was answered, Praise the Lord!

Now are you saying that a Devil showed up and mislead me to make me think that God was speaking....and the nice little demon saved me from being arrested?

Um, it doesn't really work like that bro.

Good luck with all of that!

 

[eddif]

So Satan does not exist?
1 pet 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Your John 10 passage says….”no MAN is able to pluck them out”. Doesn’t say the devil Can’t. Pick another passage. And, how would the devil do that?
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Satan makes it look and sound right!

You mock the idea of relying on the book.
When Jesus was tempted by the devil in the wilderness; what did he rely on? IT IS WRITTEN!

And the written Word became flesh. Not only that, but the flesh died was raised and became a quickening spirit. A seed is not intended to be displayed, but planted; that it might bear much fruit.

We also know the end of the evil one.

eddif

 

[Cnkw3]

There is a difference between having the Truth set before you and understanding it, is there not?

This is true. And you will be lead astray if your understanding is wrong.
You didnt tell me which books you think we need that we don’t have. The ones that will really strengthen our faith. The ones God really wants us to have.

Oh my, did I say that? I don't think so. You'll need to quote me on that please.

Our topic is:
Truth is the Word of God (which is reliable, ... always)
The necessity of the Holy Spirit to draw people to the Truth.

How does the HS draw us to truth?
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 6:44-45
It is through hearing and learning.

Ok. I'd like to understand Ezekiel 17. The whole chapter is a riddle to the house of Israel. I'll give ear to your explanation if you're willing to share that with me.

I asked you for an example where the Spirit is telling you something different then what the text says..
Since you aren’t apart of the house of Israel some 2600 years ago; how will Ez 17 help you?

Help me understand the passages in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9. What does it mean when it refers to those who say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue or satan.

In rom 2 we find this...
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 2:28-29
The church today is referred to as “the Israel of God”. Real “Jews” today are found in the church. They are Jews inwardly and not outwardly. In the first century it was the Jews at every turn that persecuted the church. Just read Pauls missionary journeys and they were all over him. They actually stoned him to death but God brought him back to life. The “Jews” did not want to give up their religion and they fought hard not too.
Who killed Jesus? Jews!
Why? He was a threat.
Was Paul a jew? Yes, and very devout. Did he ultimately change his religion? Yes. That is the pattern of salvation for every so called “Jew” today.
Dont let people today tell you that the “Jews” today are still Gods people. They aren’t. That is a message from the devil. They have the opportunity to believe in Jesus but they wont.

​

​

Help me understand the blessing given to Joseph's family beginning at Genesis 49:22. How is that applying today?

In chapter 49 we have Jacob prophesying and blessing his kids. The one we should be the most interested in is this one…..
Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Genesis 49:8-10
He just prophesied the coming of Jesus through the tribe of Judah. Thats the one that concerns us today. it speaks to the reliability and confirmation of the Bible as Gods word. We know these words were written years before Jesus came. How did he know “Shiloh” would come through Judah if he wasn’t inspired of God. Why do I believe in the Bible? One of the reasons are prophesies just like this.

You should take that up with the people who have told you that. I can't speak to their experiences, I can only speak for my own, surely you can understand that. Let's be honest, why did you even bring that up to me? Are you just trying make fun of somebody's spiritual experience? What's the point of that in the this forum?

You just said above…..”truth is the word of God”.
Nowhere in the ”truth” do you find the example i mentioned above. My point is…..If that was your experience it came from the devil and not from God. How do I know? Because it cant be found in the “truth” he left us.
Jesus said…Sanctify them in thy truth, thy word is truth.
Now you explain to me why these people get to have their own experience that is contrary to the word of God (which you said is truth) and I am supposed to just except that and move on. I guess anybody can be saved in any ole way they think. As long as it feels right. That’s not in truth!

 

[Cnkw3]

And the written Word became flesh. Not only that, but the flesh died was raised and became a quickening spirit. A seed is not intended to be displayed, but planted; that it might bear much fruit.

We also know the end of the evil one.

eddif

It does not say…”the written word became flesh”.