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Infant Immersion

jaybo

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The death of Christ was necessary because a ransom had to be paid. There are other reasons.

If we are free to choose one might not choose Christ because of the heavy influence of an atheist. In other words the atheist kept the person from receiving eternal life.

I was a serious, confirmed atheist when I reached out to Jesus for healing while in the hospital. He healed me then and there and I have been a very serious Christian ever since.
 

Cygnus

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I was a serious, confirmed atheist when I reached out to Jesus for healing while in the hospital. He healed me then and there and I have been a very serious Christian ever since.

The way I see it......Jesus decided to heal you. God regenerated you and gave you the ability to reach out to Jesus.
 

jaybo

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The way I see it......Jesus decided to heal you. God regenerated you and gave you the ability to reach out to Jesus.

Well you're not me. When I was in the hospital a woman pastor read Matthew 11:28-30, then prayed, "Jesus, heal this man". I was instantly healed. That was it.
 

Cygnus

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Well you're not me. When I was in the hospital a woman pastor read Matthew 11:28-30, then prayed, "Jesus, heal this man". I was instantly healed. That was it.
That sounds like an experience no one can take away from you. How long ago was that?
 

Bob Carabbio

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Free-willers often see the fall as a slight slip. As mankind being sick rather than dead.

Dont know that I'd agree with that. Since the Bible is CLEAR that if you're not "Drawn" by God to Christ, you ain't coming, so there's no question that God has to do HIS thing before "Free will" ever gets to be involved. However, when GOd "Opens the door" - you CAN, of your own free will, decide NOT to enter (The "I" in TULIP not withstanding).
 

Cygnus

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Dont know that I'd agree with that. Since the Bible is CLEAR that if you're not "Drawn" by God to Christ, you ain't coming, so there's no question that God has to do HIS thing before "Free will" ever gets to be involved. However, when GOd "Opens the door" - you CAN, of your own free will, decide NOT to enter (The "I" in TULIP not withstanding).
Bob, I just can't buy into that theology. I can't see God opening the door so to speak and someone rejecting it...based upon what? Based upon someone being convinced Jesus doesn't exist by a clever liar who thinks they're being honest?
 

Bob Carabbio

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Bob, I just can't buy into that theology. I can't see God opening the door so to speak and someone rejecting it...based upon what? Based upon someone being convinced Jesus doesn't exist by a clever liar who thinks they're being honest?
I did - many times until the LAST time.
 
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There is free-will concerning salvation and free-will concerning daily choices.

Concerning salvaton mankinds default mode is not choosing Jesus. Free-willers often see the fall as a slight slip. As mankind being sick rather than dead.
Free will is free will whether it is choosing about salvation or what to eat for breakfast.

Man is not born totally depraved. Man has free will and chooses to do evil thereby making man culpable for sin. Calvinism makes God culpable for sin and the lost when He has no such culpability.
 
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Cygnus

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Free will is free will whether it is choosing about salvation or what to eat for breakfast.

Man is not born totally depraved. Man has free will and chooses to do evil thereby making man culpable for sin. Calvinism makes God culpable for sin and the lost when He has no such culpability.
As I just said..you see the fall as a slight slip.

NEXT
 
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As I just said..you see the fall as a slight slip.

NEXT
The Bible does not teach Adam sinning causes man to be born totally depraved. You read this idea into the Bible. Gen 4:7 Cain had the ability to choose to do well or not do well as shown by God. God even tells him to rule over sin which is something he could not possibly do if totally depraved.
 

Cygnus

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The Bible does not teach Adam sinning causes man to be born totally depraved. You read this idea into the Bible. Gen 4:7 Cain had the ability to choose to do well or not do well as shown by God. God even tells him to rule over sin which is something he could not possibly do if totally depraved.
One could easily argue because Cain was totally depraved...he didn't listen to God and killed his brother.

But from reading your post I don't think you understand what totally depraved actually means. Instead you grasp on to your form of Pelagianism.
 
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One could easily argue because Cain was totally depraved...he didn't listen to God and killed his brother.

But from reading your post I don't think you understand what totally depraved actually means. Instead you grasp on to your form of Pelagianism.
If Cain was totally depraved God would have known it. So why does God give Cain the option, the choice of doing well and tell him to rule over sin if it were impossible for Cain to do so? God is clearly showing Cain could choose to do well if Cain wanted to.
 

Cygnus

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If Cain was totally depraved God would have known it. So why does God give Cain the option, the choice of doing well and tell him to rule over sin if it were impossible for Cain to do so? God is clearly showing Cain could choose to do well if Cain wanted to.

....Or, God is demonstrating to Cain that he can't.
 
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....Or, God is demonstrating to Cain that he can't.
Makes no sense for God to tell Cain to rule over sin when God already know he cannot.

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

IF is a conditional word meaning it was up to Cain to choose which he will do. IF Cain choose to do well he would be accepted, IF he choose to not do well sin will dominate him.
God is clearly giving Cain a choice of two options and consequence comes with which ever choice Cain makes for himself.

Total depravity gives man an excuse for his sin, makes man a victim of sin rather than making man accountable for the sin man does.
 

Bob Carabbio

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But you got saved.

Of my own free will when the Opportunity to choose was given again. I considered NOT doing it again, but it had been a long time since the last "Drawing/Conviction", and HE said that His spirit would "Not always strive with man".
 

Cygnus

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Of my own free will when the Opportunity to choose was given again. I considered NOT doing it again, but it had been a long time since the last "Drawing/Conviction", and HE said that His spirit would "Not always strive with man".

if so it appears it was God alone who convinced you. He gave you the gift of faith and you said OK.
 

Bob Carabbio

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if so it appears it was God alone who convinced you.

Of course - that's what "Conviction" does. I couldn't have been Saved without it. Repentance, on the other hand, is a free will decision. Conviction, of course is the Beginning of Faith. HE made it real when I, of my own free will, surrendered, repented, and cried out to HIM to save me the last time he convicted me.
 
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