Growth Interpretation of Tongues - misunderstood and underused

[ezra]

Many Christian see it like Ezra, above wrote.

ezra wants what God wants to give him through the spirit .not what some man tells me i need personally i like reba approach to the subject. it says as the spirit gave them utterance. if the Holy Spirit does not lead me then i aint going there

 

[Pegasus]

“Jesus therefore said to them again, Peace be unto you: as the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit: whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whose sins you retain, they are retained” (John 20:21-23).

 

[K2CHRIST]

In keeping with the Word of God it says what it says...
My family is full of personal experiences.. they are great...
When we imply we are baptized in the Holy Spirit by the evidence of tongues .. With the implication those who do not speak in tongues are not yet we are short of the Scriptures in Acts 2;3 .. i will cry foul ... Which is what has happened in this thread..

I am not sure exactly what you are getting at, but I have a few thoughts. Forgive me if you don't think they are a response to your post. I'm not sure what you mean by "I will cry four"

I love the personal experiences. If we really know God, how can we not be "full of personal experiences"? I don't think you can.


Yet knowing what those personal experiences really mean can not always be known. So can a person have the Holy Spirit and not have experienced speaking in tongues. I think so.

If it is a gift to be desired, it would only make since to think it possible to have the Spirit but not a particular gift, and the Scriptures show that possibility. Indeed that is why I am writing to "believers" telling them to desire the gifts, as was Paul to the church at Corinth.

1 Cor 14: 24 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted mean or unbelievers enter, will they not say you are mad.

The above verse pretty much sums up what I see. Note: both "ungifted", and "unbelievers" enter!!! So when discussing this topic I will see both the "unbeliever" and the "ungifted" posting and saying I am mad. Well, I want the "unbeliever" to come to believe and I also want the "ungifted" to desire the gifts. Specifically this thread is for the "ungifted" who are "ungifted" because for some reason do not desire the gifts. I'm not saying they don't have the Spirit! I am saying they are "ungifted", and so they need to desire the gifts, like Paul instructed in the Scriptures.

So a question as to whether a person has the gift of tongues is not meant to be "snarky" or "foul" but is meant to find out whether they are "ungifted" or not.

 

[K2CHRIST]

ezra wants what God wants to give him through the spirit .not what some man tells me i need personally i like reba approach to the subject. it says as the spirit gave them utterance. if the Holy Spirit does not lead me then i aint going there

Was the Bible writing by men hearing from God (even the Spirit of God)? If so, wasn't Paul hearing from the Spirit when he wrote "Desire the Gifts"? So is that not the Spirit trying to lead men to the gifts, and we even have a record of that? So the problem I see is that we read the Bible and study it, but we don't want to do what is written. Still, I do agree that we need to personally be lead by that small voice of the Lord. So I would suggest you talking to Him about desiring the Gifts like it is written, and do not lean on your own understanding. You might ( and I think probably will) find that He wants you personally to desire the gifts and that is why He had Paul write what he did. But if we get stubborn and will not ask God about what is written, then what?

My thread was written to get "ungifted" men to seek God on the gifts of the Spirit to consider that those gifts are for them. They just need to desire them and ask for them. But talk to the Lord about it and listen to what He says. Thanks

 

[reba]

Question to you K2Christ ... Were the scriptures written in chapter and verse from the beginning. the answer is no.
We Pentecostals tend to ignore Acts 2:3 while claiming Acts 2:4 in that is where i see foul

As for ungifted i dont buy that .. the gifts are given to what extent we use them is on us
Rom_11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom_12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

 

[ezra]

Was the Bible writing by men hearing from God (even the Spirit of God)? If so, wasn't Paul hearing from the Spirit when he wrote "Desire the Gifts"? So is that not the Spirit trying to lead men to the gifts, and we even have a record of that? So the problem I see is that we read the Bible and study it, but we don't want to do what is written. Still, I do agree that we need to personally be lead by that small voice of the Lord. So I would suggest you talking to Him about desiring the Gifts like it is written, and do not lean on your own understanding. You might ( and I think probably will) find that He wants you personally to desire the gifts and that is why He had Paul write what he did. But if we get stubborn and will not ask God about what is written, then what?

My thread was written to get "ungifted" men to seek God on the gifts of the Spirit to consider that those gifts are for them. They just need to desire them and ask for them. But talk to the Lord about it and listen to what He says. Thanks

well it appears that your more concerned about the gift of tongues than any thing the Bible says as the spirit gave them utterance. i have been in church services where many was talking in tongues nobody interpreted. it was confusion which God is not the author of . i attended a AOG service at the end it got quite very still one spoke in tongues few min later the interpretation. so if we desire this gift will God give it? i am through with this thread i dont understand enough about tongues .there fore i leave it alone... curious do you ahve every giftt of the spirit?

 

[Free]

My thread was written to get "ungifted" men to seek God on the gifts of the Spirit to consider that those gifts are for them. They just need to desire them and ask for them. But talk to the Lord about it and listen to what He says. Thanks

The purpose of this thread as you have stated, is impossible. The only "ungifted men" are unbelievers. Every believer is given a gift or gifts:

1Co 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;
1Co 12:5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;
1Co 12:6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.
1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
...
1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. (ESV)

That effectively puts an end to your point. What you are teaching is not biblical.

 

[Edward]

Mind if I throw a monkey wrench into the machine? Lol Wow. I was reading up and studying on something else besides tongues just now, but this scripture about tongues was in there and...blew my mind. I've never heard it quoted or considered before but it is about tongues and is scripture so here it is;

1 Corinthians 14:22
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.../

I was under the impression that tongues is fairly important, but this scripture seems to indicate otherwise (except for the unbeliever). Unless I'm missing it, lol. It's more for the unbeliever than for the believer? Just for a sign for them which do not believe. Now when I spoke in tongues that one time, there were no one there but me. I was alone. I thnk I must conclude that the Lord was helping my own unbelief, that plus perhaps I was being baptized in the Holy Spirit at the same time. I know the other scripture which said that when we speak in tongues it is our spirit which prayeth to God...(or the Holy Spirit praying for us because we don't pray for the right things), so some speak in tongues quite a bit, and that's good for them I suppose, but I'm not worried about it anymore. If the Holy Spirit wants to give an unbeliever a sign through me, let Him do so and God be glorified. But I'll pray normally to God myself unless the, like was said, the Holy Spirit leads me there. That's a great position.

 

[reba]

some times we sort agree Edward :tongue

 

[Kidron]

lest the confusion continue.......

There is the "gift of Tongues", which is a God given miraculous ability to speak in a foreign language that you have never learned, and its for the purpose of being a sign, and also, for the benefit of the listener who would not be able to understand YOUR language.
Peter, in Acts 2..."how WE HEARD in our OWN LANGUAGE"....= this is Peter speaking in their language for THEIR sake.
= the "gift of Tongues".

Now, this is not the same as a "prayer language" that would be for YOUR benefit, personally.
That is something completely different.

So, one is a Spiritual Gift, that is one of the 9 listed in Corinthians, and one is NOT .
So, if you are a tongue talker, good for you, but this is not the "gift of Tongues" you are committing, so, once you understand this distinction, then you are removed from the fog of the ignorant, regarding this simple to understand issue.
And then there is more....
Read the REASON for the "gift of Tongues". (speaking in a EARTHLY Foreign Language)
1st Corinthians 1:22, AND 1 Corinthians 14:22
All you have to do is read.
This is why PETER was speaking in "the gift of Tongues", during PENTECOST, as this is ONLY FOR JEWS.
So, you have a Jewish apostle speaking in "the gift of tongues" to a JEWISH audience, during a JEWISH feast, in JERUSALEM.

Study to show thyself approved. !!

 

[Edward]

lest the confusion continue.......

There is the "gift of Tongues", which is a God given miraculous ability to speak in a foreign language that you have never learned, and its for the purpose of being a sign, and also, for the benefit of the listener who would not be able to understand YOUR language.
Peter, in Acts 2..."how WE HEARD in our OWN LANGUAGE"....= this is Peter speaking in their language for THEIR sake.
= the "gift of Tongues".

Now, this is not the same as a "prayer language" that would be for YOUR benefit, personally.
That is something completely different.

So, one is a Spiritual Gift, that is one of the 9 listed in Corinthians, and one is NOT .
So, if you are a tongue talker, good for you, but this is not the "gift of Tongues" you are committing, so, once you understand this distinction, then you are removed from the fog of the ignorant, regarding this simple to understand issue.
And then there is more....
Read the REASON for the "gift of Tongues". (speaking in a EARTHLY Foreign Language)
1st Corinthians 1:22, AND 1 Corinthians 14:22
All you have to do is read.
This is why PETER was speaking in "the gift of Tongues", during PENTECOST, as this is ONLY FOR JEWS.
So, you have a Jewish apostle speaking in "the gift of tongues" to a JEWISH audience, during a JEWISH feast, in JERUSALEM.

Study to show thyself approved. !!

That is the scripture that cleared it up for me.

 

[K2CHRIST]

The purpose of this thread as you have stated, is impossible. The only "ungifted men" are unbelievers. Every believer is given a gift or gifts:

1Co 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;
1Co 12:5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;
1Co 12:6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.
1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
...
1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. (ESV)

That effectively puts an end to your point. What you are teaching is not biblical.

Does "everyone" refer to all believers or all "gifted men"? I believe you are making an assumption without realizing it. Often we see two verses that at first glace do not seem to match, but because they are both verse they both have to make sense.

Paul was writing to the church at Corinth, so while we can certainly get meaning out of it and it certainly applies to us today, the writing was still to the church at Corinth. So Paul talking about people coming in that were both "ungifted" and others that were "unbelievers". So there were ungifted men coming in that were separate from believers, but those were not the people he was writing to!!!

Now then; at that church you had a variety of gifts on display and the context Paul was referring to was specifically what we would call a service. So at the service or open meeting being held at Corinth, there were a variety of gifts being displayed. Certainly it was the Holy Spirit behind "everyone" of the manifestations of the Spirit seen there. And everyone manifesting those gifts (the gifted men there) each were being given a manifestation for the common good. But of course that did not apply to the "ungifted men" Paul wrote about!!

Also, your assumption that "all" (in the sense of everyone there) are given gifts, there would no longer be a reason to instruct them to desire the gifts! Paul could have only written 'desire the greater gifts', or 'desire more gifts' but he wrote "desire the gifts". So you have made an assumption in your interpretation of a few scriptures that does not take into account all the scriptures.

We need to desire the gifts. And we can probably expect both unbelievers and ungifted men will come to our services. That is what was happening then, so it probably is going to happen now. We can't ignore those verses. And while every gifts of the Spirit are manifestations of the Spirit in all the people, that does not mean all people are gifted! And the Spirit will and wants to use "everyone", but that does not mean that everyone wants the gifts! So the instruction to desire the gifts. And some don't want all the gifts and/or the greater gifts, so we also read where Paul wrote, 'especially prophecy'.

Thus the unbeliever needs to believe. The ungifted men need to want the gifts. And those gifted but not in all the gifts need to want the other gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. And all those gifts are manifestations of the Spirit. And the Spirit wants all to have them and will use all in those gifts as God deems best. You part is to desire them.

 

[reba]

Closed when one making assumptions it charging another of making assumptions .. the thread is through