Is Being Against Tatoos the Law?

[Deborah13]

I'm glad he did not get a 'faith based' tattoo. That's the important thing.

A faith based tattoo would 'mark' you as a slave for the rest of your life. Everyone that saw it would know. Rather like the Hebrew slaves with a hole in their ear. You couldn't get away with anything, even when out of town. One would certainly have to be on their best behavior all the time or they would definitely be a stumbling stone.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm glad he did not get a 'faith based' tattoo. That's the important thing.

A faith based tattoo would 'mark' you as a slave for the rest of your life. Everyone that saw it would know. Rather like the Hebrew slaves with a hole in their ear. You couldn't get away with anything, even when out of town. One would certainly have to be on their best behavior all the time or they would definitely be a stumbling stone.

Which is why I won't have a 'Jesus' bumper sticker anymore. Not so I can 'not be on my best behavior', but so that when I am, other people--particularly unbelievers--don't use my failure to bring reproach on Christ and further justify their decision to reject Christ.

 

[reba]

Before ya all pounce on me i know this was generally written to women...

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Before ya all pounce on me i know this was generally written to women...

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

Just as true for men as it is for women.

After all, we men are just as much the bride of Christ--the body joined to Christ--as you women are.

The 'mark in the flesh' we Christians are to have to show that we are in covenant with God is the mark of the Holy Spirit ("...love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control..."

"Against such things there is no law." (Galatians 5:22-23 NIV) (But there is for tattooing).

 

[farouk]

Before ya all pounce on me i know this was generally written to women...

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

Just as true for men as it is for women.

After all, we men are just as much the bride of Christ--the body joined to Christ--as you women are.

The 'mark in the flesh' we Christians are to have to show that we are in covenant with God is the mark of the Holy Spirit ("...love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control..."

"Against such things there is no law." (Galatians 5:22-23 NIV) (But there is for tattooing[/I]).

Tell me more...

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Before ya all pounce on me i know this was generally written to women...

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

Just as true for men as it is for women.

After all, we men are just as much the bride of Christ--the body joined to Christ--as you women are.

The 'mark in the flesh' we Christians are to have to show that we are in covenant with God is the mark of the Holy Spirit ("...love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control..."

"Against such things there is no law." (Galatians 5:22-23 NIV) (But there is for tattooing[/I]).

Tell me more...

Blessings.

28 “‘Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord." (Leviticus 19:28 NIV)

Okay, cut loose with your Christmas and hair cutting questions. I have no problem explaining it again.

I used to do the easy thing that avoids all discussion about it and rationalize this away as meaning 'tattoo marks for the dead' like a lot of people do, but I simply can not honestly do that anymore.

 

[farouk]

Before ya all pounce on me i know this was generally written to women...

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

Just as true for men as it is for women.

After all, we men are just as much the bride of Christ--the body joined to Christ--as you women are.

The 'mark in the flesh' we Christians are to have to show that we are in covenant with God is the mark of the Holy Spirit ("...love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control..."

"Against such things there is no law." (Galatians 5:22-23 NIV) (But there is for tattooing[/I]).

Tell me more...

Blessings.

28 “‘Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord." (Leviticus 19:28 NIV)

Okay, cut loose with your Christmas and hair cutting questions. I have no problem explaining it again.

I used to rationalize this away as meaning 'tattoo marks for the dead' like a lot of people do, but I simply can not honestly do that anymore.

Do preachers shave? The adjacent verse says about not trimming the corners of beards, v. 27.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you know why that was forbidden for the people of God to do?

And if you do know, how many pagans do you know about who are actively participating in that activity for the express purpose of worshiping their false idols as was done at the time of the giving of the law? Answer that for Christmas, too.

Then before you start talking about how safe and wonderful and innocent and idol-free the practice of tattooing is these days among the pagans (like Christmas and hair trimming are) flip on M-TV or some other reality TV programming, perhaps even post links to how/when/where tattooing is being practiced in our western society these days. Then we'll talk.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you're tattooed I'm not trying to destroy you. I know a person can't easily fix what's been done on the skin, but they can change their endorsement of the practice for the sake of others who may be tempted to venture into the practice.

 

[farouk]

Do you know why that was forbidden for the people of God to do?

And if you do know, how many pagans do you know about who are actively participating in that activity for the express purpose of worshiping their false idols as was done at the time of the giving of the law? Answer that for Christmas, too.

Then before you start talking about how safe and wonderful and innocent and idol-free the practice of tattooing is these days among the pagans (like Christmas and hair trimming are) flip on M-TV or some other reality TV programming, perhaps even post links to how/when/where tattooing is being practiced in our western society these days. Then we'll talk.

So now you're saying that New Testament Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas either?

Now you're also saying that people shouldn't get nice haircuts (not even professional women?)

And this is on a par with the need for Old Testament-style bushy beards, and no tattoos, in your view, maybe.

(If I've misunderstood you, do correct me.)

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you know why that was forbidden for the people of God to do?

And if you do know, how many pagans do you know about who are actively participating in that activity for the express purpose of worshiping their false idols as was done at the time of the giving of the law? Answer that for Christmas, too.

Then before you start talking about how safe and wonderful and innocent and idol-free the practice of tattooing is these days among the pagans (like Christmas and hair trimming are) flip on M-TV or some other reality TV programming, perhaps even post links to how/when/where tattooing is being practiced in our western society these days. Then we'll talk.

So now you're saying that New Testament Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas either?

Now you're also saying that people shouldn't get nice haircuts (not even professional women?)

And this is on a par with the need for Old Testament-style bushy beards, and no tattoos, in your view, maybe.

(If I've misunderstood you, do correct me.)

Blessings.

No, that's NOT what I'm saying.

I brought those up because, as expected, the argument goes that if Christmas (involvement in pagan festivals) and hair trimming are forbidden in the law, but we do them anyway in the church, then tattooing can be done too.

The problem is the practice of tattooing is still very much alive among the pagans and for the reasons it originated--the worship of false idols, false gods. Not by name, but in regard to pride, and rebellion, and sensuality--the gods of this world.

It's impossible to argue that tattooing has some kind of history not connected with the express purpose and intent of serving the agenda of worldly and ungodly desires (like I say, just flip on M-TV or similar reality programming). You can, on the other hand, at this time in history, argue that Christmas and hair trimming DO have an innocent history NOT connected with the purpose and intent of serving false idols. But tattooing has always been the sole property and practice of the pagans, not the church.

Tattooing has no godly history or foundation on which we can make an appeal for it's authorized practice in the church. If you need me to explain this better, I will.

 

[farouk]

Do you know why that was forbidden for the people of God to do?

And if you do know, how many pagans do you know about who are actively participating in that activity for the express purpose of worshiping their false idols as was done at the time of the giving of the law? Answer that for Christmas, too.

Then before you start talking about how safe and wonderful and innocent and idol-free the practice of tattooing is these days among the pagans (like Christmas and hair trimming are) flip on M-TV or some other reality TV programming, perhaps even post links to how/when/where tattooing is being practiced in our western society these days. Then we'll talk.

So now you're saying that New Testament Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas either?

Now you're also saying that people shouldn't get nice haircuts (not even professional women?)

And this is on a par with the need for Old Testament-style bushy beards, and no tattoos, in your view, maybe.

(If I've misunderstood you, do correct me.)

Blessings.

No, that's NOT what I'm saying.

I brought those up because, as expected, the argument goes that if Christmas (involvement in pagan festivals) and hair trimming are forbidden in the law, but we do them anyway in the church, then tattooing can be done too.

The problem is the practice of tattooing is still very much alive among the pagans and for the reasons it originated--the worship of false idols, false gods. Not by name, but in regard to pride, and rebellion, and sensuality--the gods of this world.

It's impossible to argue that tattooing has some kind of history not connected with the express purpose and intent of serving the agenda of worldly and ungodly desires. You can, on the other hand, at this time in history, argue that for Christmas and hair trimming. But tattooing has always been the sole property and practice of the pagans, not the church.

Tattooing has no godly history or foundation on which we can make an appeal for it's authorized practice in the church. If you need me to explain this better, I will.

Thanks for your full response. I appreciate you having taken the trouble to write these thoughts.

What I'm wondering is, if a preacher tries to tell young Christian young people that getting a tattoo - even a Christian fish sign <>< - is an act of worldly rebellion against their Christian upbringing and against their parents, one or two of them might well reply: 'This is strange, because my mom has one, too...' (Whether or not this is ideal or everyone's preference is another matter entirely, but it wouldn't be unusual.)

An earnest young Christian man going into the military might well want to get inked with something Christian, before going to stay at a barracks. (Whether or not this is ideal or everyone's preference is another matter entirely, but it wouldn't be unusual.)

A preacher's daughter from a stable ad Godly home, if she was going away to college someplace, might well think of getting a Bible ref. or Christian fish sign, etc, on a wrist maybe. (Whether or not this is ideal or everyone's preference is another matter entirely, but it wouldn't be unusual.)

If you see my general point...

Blessings.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Being against tatoos is the Law.
But so what, none of us obey the Law anyway, even the ones who think they do.
So here's how it works, I'll smoke, Farouk can have tatoos, and Jethro can have his own personal line of Lamborghinis.

 

[farouk]

Being against tatoos is the Law.
But so what, none of us obey the Law anyway, even the ones who think they do.
So here's how it works, I'll smoke, Farouk can have tatoos, and Jethro can have his own personal line of Lamborghinis.

I guess my point is basically this: I don't say, people ought to get tattoos. But if a New Testament believer under grace is motivated to get a faith based design for witness purposes, the fact is that the New Testament believer isn't under the law in any case, as Galatians and Romans point out.

Blessings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thanks for your full response. I appreciate you having taken the trouble to write these thoughts.

Thank you. That sounds sincere. It means much to me because the truth is I'm struggling between my desire to post here and get work done I need to around here. So I'm glad you really do appreciate it .

What I'm wondering is, if a preacher tries to tell young Christian young people that getting a tattoo - even a Christian fish sign <>< - is an act of worldly rebellion against their Christian upbringing and against their parents...

Let me stop you right there. That's not really the argument for the Christian believer. I know full well that a sincere, faithful Christian can get a tattoo and have not the slightest thinking or intent toward rebellion, sensuality, or pride. Which is, IMO, why it's even being considered for practice by the church in the first place.

The problem is exactly what God wants the church to avoid: Identification with the pagans through what they do and approve of, and the potential for falling into the reasons they do what they do.

...one or two of them might well reply: 'This is strange, because my mom has one, too...' (Whether or not this is ideal or everyone's preference is another matter entirely, but it wouldn't be unusual.)

"A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough." (Galatians 5:9 NIV)

You don't have to remind me about the problem of one generations misguided decisions being embraced and endorsed by the next generation. But that hardly makes the practice okay now!

An earnest young Christian man going into the military might well want to get inked with something Christian, before going to stay at a barracks. (Whether or not this is ideal or everyone's preference is another matter entirely, but it wouldn't be unusual.)

A preacher's daughter from a stable ad Godly home, if she was going away to college someplace, might well think of getting a Bible ref. or Christian fish sign, etc, on a wrist maybe. (Whether or not this is ideal or everyone's preference is another matter entirely, but it wouldn't be unusual.)

If you see my general point...

Blessings.

I see you trying to rationalize the pagan practice by having a good conscience about it(?)

That does nothing for the fact that it is still very much the practice and tradition of the pagans who have had sole ownership of it and use it to glorify and serve worldly appetites and desires.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Being against tatoos is the Law.
But so what, none of us obey the Law anyway, even the ones who think they do.
So here's how it works, I'll smoke, Farouk can have tatoos, and Jethro can have his own personal line of Lamborghinis.

I guess my point is basically this: I don't say, people ought to get tattoos. But if a New Testament believer under grace is motivated to get a faith based design for witness purposes, the fact is that the New Testament believer isn't under the law in any case, as Galatians and Romans point out.

Blessings.

But you are so very wrong!

When we don't consider the effect of what we do on other people and the church we are breakers of the law.

Is keeping the command 'do not murder' being under the law?

I'm sorry, but you are the victim of some very seriously misguided teaching in the church these days. The way you stay out from 'under the law' is to KEEP the law (for all that means in this New Covenant).

Complicated subject, I know, but if I can get it, so can everyone else.

Going out to feed the hog....

 

[farouk]

Thank you. That sounds sincere. It means much to me because the truth is I'm struggling between my desire to post here and get work done I need to around here. So I'm glad you really do appreciate it .



Let me stop you right there. That's not really the argument for the Christian believer. I know full well that a sincere, faithful Christian can get a tattoo and have not the slightest thinking or intent toward rebellion, sensuality, or pride. Which is, IMO, why it's even being considered for practice by the church in the first place.

The problem is exactly what God wants the church to avoid: Identification with the pagans through what they do and approve of, and the potential for falling into the reasons they do what they do.



"A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough." (Galatians 5:9 NIV)

You don't have to remind me about the problem of one generations misguided decisions being embraced and endorsed by the next generation. But that hardly makes the practice okay now!

An earnest young Christian man going into the military might well want to get inked with something Christian, before going to stay at a barracks. (Whether or not this is ideal or everyone's preference is another matter entirely, but it wouldn't be unusual.)

A preacher's daughter from a stable ad Godly home, if she was going away to college someplace, might well think of getting a Bible ref. or Christian fish sign, etc, on a wrist maybe. (Whether or not this is ideal or everyone's preference is another matter entirely, but it wouldn't be unusual.)

If you see my general point...

Blessings.

I see you trying to rationalize the pagan practice by having a good conscience about it(?)

That does nothing for the fact that it is still very much the practice and tradition of the pagans who have had sole ownership of it and use it to glorify and serve worldly appetites and desires.

Thanks for your further thoughts.

Regarding what you say about 'sole ownership', these days it's not all about promoting paganism if the message being conveyed is Biblical, surely?

'Sole' suggests an exclusivity about paganism and tattoos. Whereas many Christians get them and use them for testimony. Including earnest, Godly women who, exercising tattoo equality, may want theirs to be a witness. So I'm not sure how the 'sole' can apply now.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

Being against tatoos is the Law.
But so what, none of us obey the Law anyway, even the ones who think they do.
So here's how it works, I'll smoke, Farouk can have tatoos, and Jethro can have his own personal line of Lamborghinis.

I guess my point is basically this: I don't say, people ought to get tattoos. But if a New Testament believer under grace is motivated to get a faith based design for witness purposes, the fact is that the New Testament believer isn't under the law in any case, as Galatians and Romans point out.

Blessings.

But you are so very wrong!

When we don't consider the effect of what we do on other people and the church we are breakers of the law.

Is keeping the command 'do not murder' being under the law?

I'm sorry, but you are the victim of some very seriously misguided teaching in the church these days. The way you stay out from 'under the law' is to KEEP the law (for all that means in this New Covenant).

Complicated subject, I know, but if I can get it, so can everyone else.

Going out to feed the hog....

Romans 6.14; Galatians 5.18

 

[TOG]

Being against tatoos is the Law.
But so what, none of us obey the Law anyway, even the ones who think they do.
So here's how it works, I'll smoke, Farouk can have tatoos, and Jethro can have his own personal line of Lamborghinis.

I guess my point is basically this: I don't say, people ought to get tattoos. But if a New Testament believer under grace is motivated to get a faith based design for witness purposes, the fact is that the New Testament believer isn't under the law in any case, as Galatians and Romans point out.

Blessings.

The law doesn't forbid tattoos. It only forbids getting them "for the dead" (i.e. as a mourning ritual). So whether we are under the law or not really has nothing to do with tattoos, unless we're getting them to honor or remember the dead. What I think is more relevant is that by getting a tattoo we are defacing for life the body God gave us. At least, that's how I see it. I've never seen a tattoo that made a woman more beautiful or a man more handsome.

The TOG
​

 

[farouk]

I've never seen a tattoo that made a woman more beautiful or a man more handsome.

The TOG
​

TOG: Aesthetics apart - which can be subjective - I guess for Christians with faith based designs another aspect is, Does the design communicate faith clearly, or otherwise assist in stimulating faith related conversations?

This more of a pragmatic than an aesthetic consideration, I guess.

Blessings.