Is belief in the trinity essential for salvation?

[Free]

the word of God shows clearly what one what must believe to be saved and the trinity is not there.

What does it clearly show?

 

[jasoncran]

at first being a jw upon my salvation it was hard for me to accept the eternal godhead. But upon reading the word and the preaching and teaching of the word, i accepted the trinity.

jason

 

[bodhitharta]

no one does not have to believe in the trinity for salvation. that is traditions of men not the word of God( the idea that one has to believe in the trinity to be saved) the fruit of that shows it is an incorrect doctrine, it has been used to burn hang and torture more believers then most doctrines.
(again i am speaking of the doctrine that you must believe in the trinity- i am not speaking of the validity of the trinity itself)

the word of God shows clearly what one what must believe to be saved and the trinity is not there.

Perhaps the JW's and Mormons and all other false religions that deny the trinity, which is the very nature of God, are Christians according to your theology. To believe on the NAME of the Lord Jesus encompasses His very nature, which is revealed by,in and through the trinitarian nature of God.

Show me the scripture that says you must believe in the trinity, you cant but let me show you this:


John 17 (King James Version)

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

This verse says that Eternal Life is to know The Only True God AND Jesus Christ. Obviously this statement is not even calling Jesus "God" at all it completely seperates the 2 saying GOD and Jesus it is not even saying The Father and Jesus it is saying God and Jesus.


So according to the scriptures knowing The Only True God which is Our Father is eternal life and knowing that Jesus Christ was sent by Him.

Your theory dies at thsi point, there isn't even mention of The Holy Spirit in that statement that because The Holy Spirit is The Spirit of God.

 

[bodhitharta]

Actually believing in the trinity may cause you problems knowing God.

 

[lovely]

Test the Spirits

1 John 4
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, and if we confess this we know that we are of God. If one, after reading the Word of God, continues to reject that God's Son has come in the flesh, then he is of the sprit of the antichrist. The words 'come in the flesh' indicate to us, coupled with other testimony from Jesus, indicate that He is God who condescended to become man for our sakes.

 

[D4Christ]

Is belief in the trinity essential for salvation?

Nope. As long as you believe in the Father ( YHWH) and in HIs son, (Yahushua), and that the Holy spirit is a gift from YHWH to each us you are not out of order.

 

[Benoni]

Great question.

Problem is none of you can show me in the Bible where God is made up of three persons; if you can't prove this simple point using God's Word YOU HAVE NO TRINITY....

 

[wavy]

The NT does equate Jesus with God, but other parts of it are inconsistent with this view. In any case, the Trinity is nowhere found in the bible, although the elements which led to its creedal formalization are definitely there.

But the problem with the Trinity in its creedal form is not that it it's hard to understand; it's the fact that it's logically incoherent and therefore cannot be true since logical possibility is a necessary prerequisite of truth. There is a way to state the core of the doctrine without contradiction, but it requires abandoning the creeds.


Finis,
Eric

 

[bodhitharta]

Test the Spirits

1 John 4
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, and if we confess this we know that we are of God. If one, after reading the Word of God, continues to reject that God's Son has come in the flesh, then he is of the sprit of the antichrist. The words 'come in the flesh' indicate to us, coupled with other testimony from Jesus, indicate that He is God who condescended to become man for our sakes.

Jesus Christ is FROM God and is flesh and blood. God is a Spirit

 

[Free]

Let's keep this on topic and avoid actual discussion of the Trinity since that would take up several threads.

 

[mutzrein]

Is belief in the trinity essential for salvation?

O good grief, here we go again. Of course not.

So you don't have to know God and His nature to actually believe? What form of Christianity is this?

Believe in what?

 

[SpiritualSon]

A belief in the trinity is not essential for salvation. What a Christian and Jew does with their life is important than the doctrine they believe in. We enter heaven or hell to the degree that heaven or hell enter us.

Harry

 

[Tina]

A belief in the trinity is not essential for salvation. What a Christian and Jew does with their life is important than the doctrine they believe in. We enter heaven or hell to the degree that heaven or hell enter us.

Harry

.... :biglol .......


When a Christian denies Trinity, he is essentially denying Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

When he believes in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, he essentially believes in Trinity.


:shades

 

[justvisiting]

I think there are some that do not have perfect theology that will be saved. I do believe in the Father,Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
I suppose you could derive a different conclusion from the key verse, however, I think God judges us on what we know...and what we do with what we know. There are bound to be those that know only the name of Jesus...especially in their infancy as Christians. They do need to know about sin and forgiveness through Him though.

 

[bodhitharta]

Tina,

When a Christian denies the trinity he is simply denying the plurality of God which he was taught to do, for there are no persons of God that is why God is called THE LORD GOD, how many lords do you count there that are God?

 

[D4Christ]

Just curious....it seems weird to me that so many demoninations who deny Catholisism, embrace their doctrines as their own. But here is a copy of their trinity doctrine"

Athanasian Creed

"We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the persons; nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost.

"But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one: the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, so is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.

"The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal.

"And yet there are not three eternals, but one eternal. Also there are not three incomprehensibles, not three uncreated: but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible.

"So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet there are not three Almighties, but one Almighty.

"So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet there are not three Gods: but one God.

"So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords but one Lord.

"For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every person by himself to be God and Lord; so we are forbidden by the Catholic religion to say, There be three Gods, or three Lords.

"The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone: not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

"So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons: one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.

"And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other, none is greater or less than others; but the whole three persons are co- eternal together; and co-equal. So that in all things as is aforesaid: the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

"HE THEREFORE THAT WILL BE SAVED MUST THUS THINK OF THE TRINITY."

Per this definition Mary makes 4 since she is also a co-redemptrix equal to Christ...but I digress. My question...do trinity believers believe in this definition or is their some other version?

 

[Adullam]

A belief in the trinity is not essential for salvation. What a Christian and Jew does with their life is important than the doctrine they believe in. We enter heaven or hell to the degree that heaven or hell enter us.

Harry

:amen

 

[justvisiting]

Just curious....it seems weird to me that so many demoninations who deny Catholisism, embrace their doctrines as their own. But here is a copy of their trinity doctrine"

Athanasian Creed

"We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the persons; nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost.

"But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one: the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, so is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.

"The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal.

"And yet there are not three eternals, but one eternal. Also there are not three incomprehensibles, not three uncreated: but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible.

"So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet there are not three Almighties, but one Almighty.

"So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet there are not three Gods: but one God.

"So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords but one Lord.

"For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every person by himself to be God and Lord; so we are forbidden by the Catholic religion to say, There be three Gods, or three Lords.

"The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone: not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

"So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons: one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts.

"And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other, none is greater or less than others; but the whole three persons are co- eternal together; and co-equal. So that in all things as is aforesaid: the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

"HE THEREFORE THAT WILL BE SAVED MUST THUS THINK OF THE TRINITY."

Per this definition Mary makes 4 since she is also a co-redemptrix equal to Christ...but I digress. My question...do trinity believers believe in this definition or is their some other version?

Alright Deirdre, what is your take on it then.
The only other possibilities I can think of are oneness, but please expound your views.
P.S. Definitely not a Mary worshipper. I respect her as a saint of Christianity (as in all Christians are saints) though, and the blessed mother of our redeemer.

 

[justvisiting]

Tina,

When a Christian denies the trinity he is simply denying the plurality of God which he was taught to do, for there are no persons of God that is why God is called THE LORD GOD, how many lords do you count there that are God?

I take it then, that your stand is more Oneness? I don't deny John 4:24 God is a Spirit. However, what about the eternal place of Christ at the right hand of the Father. Is the Son...the Father...no. The Son is the Son.

 

[D4Christ]

When a Christian denies Trinity, he is essentially denying Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

When he believes in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, he essentially believes in Trinity.


:shades

That's really a judgmental and arrogant stance to take...and though this may come off strongly in black and white, I'm not angry or trying to be mean-spiritied....its just my observation. I don't particularly agree with the trinity but I have not condemned trinity believers as heretical unbelievers. Yet that is what, imho you did in your statement above especially with the emphasis of the crazy smiley face.

I believe in the Father...He is God...His name is YHWH...He alone has all power and ultimate authority...The Father has only one begotten Son...he is God....His name is Yahushua....presently He holds all authority and power because His Father gave it to Him, but He is not greater than the Father..when the Son destroys death He will transfer all authority back to His Father...I believe in the Holy Spirit....He is never described as God...but He is a witness for the Father for everything He says comes directly from the Father (sometimes via Christ)...He is also described as Truth, advocate, counselor, teacher, and comforter, who could only come once Christ left (although the OT prophets spoke by Him, they were not filled with Him).

These three imho are separate but operate as One....one meaning unity not entity (they will never contradict or disagree with one another) as expressed in John 14....Christ is in Father..the Father is in HIm. Christ is in us and prays that we are in Him and the Father so as to experience perfect unity. Christ prays we will all be one. The same language He uses to describe His relationship with His Father, he uses to describe His relationship with us and one another. Would anyone suggest that Christs' wish for us was to act as some frankenstien entity put together and walking as one unit but with three personalities or minds? Or was He suggesting that as members of the Body that we should function with one purpose and agenda in harmony with one another as He is in harmony with His Father?

Blessings,
Deirdre