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Is belief "works"?

Good morning,

I suppose if a person doesn't believe, then he just needs to work harder. lol. Is there any atheists here? Can you please tell everyone you haven't been given the ability to believe. To everyone who has a lack of faith, they will hear this and they might come to the conclusion that they haven't been working hard enough. This reminds of those healing revivals, you know where the sick and lame come to receive a healing. You know what, they always leave in the same condition they came because they didn't work hard enough or 'believe' enough. I don't know when they will ever learn their lesson.

Those are some of the saddest stories I've ever heard.

- Davies
 
Davies said:
Hi Webb,

If I understand you properly, you mean that anything we do does not merit justification. When we walk in the Spirit and produce the fruit of the Spirit seen by the things we do, I think we can call these righteous deeds and I think God is happy with them, but these good deeds we do, don't merit justification. Justification is merited by the righteousness of Jesus alone. I think this may be the point of confusion in the thread.

- Davies
Click to expand...
Hi Davies
I believe the following words from Jesus, our Saviour covers it: ''SO LIKEWISE YE, WHEN YE SHALL HAVE DONE ALL THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE COMMANDED YOU, SAY, WE ARE UNPROFITABLE SERVANTS: WE HAVE DONE THAT WHICH WAS OUR DUTY TO DO.'' Luke 17:10
God bless
 
Wonder what this means...

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
davies

God holds our hand(gives us faith) to do what is necessary to be forgiven and
receive the gift of eternal life. We didn't do anything to receive the gift of
faith.
Click to expand...

You are teaching salvation by works also, we are not in agreement, nowhere close ! Man is not forgiven by doing anything, by believing anything, forgiveness is by the Blood of Christ through the redemption in Christ Jesus Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

ones Believing had nothing to do with what Christ accomplished for them by His Blood.
 
Savedbygrace

Do you believe Christ died for your sins? Do you believe you have been forgiven?

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
 
I find it odd that some of the simplest teachings of Christ get completely twisted into something unrecognizable...

Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

How is it that Christ determines who receives eternal life and who receives everlasting punishment? BY WHAT THEY DO, in other words, BY THEIR WORKS.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
davies



You are teaching salvation by works also, we are not in agreement, nowhere close ! Man is not forgiven by doing anything, by believing anything, forgiveness is by the Blood of Christ through the redemption in Christ Jesus Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

ones Believing had nothing to do with what Christ accomplished for them by His Blood.
Click to expand...


Mark 16:15,16, John 8:24, the words of Jesus.
 
heymikey80 said:
I would think that the citation of Adam's relationship with God being agreeable to the term "covenant", there's little else to say. The single command is not a covenant on it's own, but it's clearly a stipulation of a covenant. This covenant seems to constitute God's relationship of life with Adam. When it was violated, the condemnation of the violation was to revoke Adam's life, as God first stated and then executed.

The issue is, pretty clearly, Adam performs in order to continue life in the Garden.

None of the commands of Jesus declare this quid-pro-quo agreement the way it appears in Genesis. In fact most are completely backwards from it. Most are either direct commands, or are statements like, "If you love me you will do what I command." The basis for following Christ's commands are thus not based on continued life, but on love above life.
Click to expand...

Jesus said, if a man does not abide in Me he is cut off as branch which men gather to be burned, if that is not life what is it?
 
You know guys, this debate needn't be. All one needs to do is to look at Paul's works argument in it's context and it becomes abundantly clear that he is speaking of the works of the Mosaic Law, not good deeds. I find it amazing that Christians simply will not do this. It suggests to me that men's doctrines are more important to many than what the Scriptures actually say.
 
Philippians 2:13 reads: ''FOR IT IS GOD WHICH WORKETH IN YOU BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE." From this some reason: "---this is a work of God in man and not man." Folks, the Bible is its own best commentary. The previous verse (vs.12) reads: ''WHEREFORE, MY BELOVED, AS YE HAVE ALWAYS OBEYED, NOT AS IN MY PRESENSE ONLY, BUT NOW MUCH MORE IN MY ABSENCE, WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING." Man has been endowed with free will. God does not make us DO something. The faith that obeys is the faith that saves. The belief that saves is the belief that obeyes, Mk.16:15,16. The book of Romans begins with "obedience to the faith" 1:5 and ends with "obedience of faith" 16:26.
 
reba said:
Are we forgiven if we don't repent?
Click to expand...

Act_11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

I believe that repentance is very much a part of salvation. I remarked to a 6th grade Sunday School class that I rarely heard repentance preached in that church. The preachers daughter
replied. "We have never done anything wrong." She had asked Jesus into her heart and was baptized, but had never been convicted of sin or repented. Something is wrong here. That church was full of adultry, incest, leadership in sin. Yes I believe
that repentance is a part of salvation, but it is also a gift from
God since it was GRANTED to the gentiles at the house of Cornelius. LK 13:3 NKJV "I tell you, no: but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.". But I also believe repentance is just changing our minds, agreeing with God about sin and looking to Jesus as the near kinsman who purchased our forgiveness with His blood.
 
Carolyn said:

Act_11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

I believe that repentance is very much a part of salvation. I remarked to a 6th grade Sunday School class that I rarely heard repentance preached in that church. The preachers daughter
replied. "We have never done anything wrong." She had asked Jesus into her heart and was baptized, but had never been convicted of sin or repented. Something is wrong here. That church was full of adultry, incest, leadership in sin. Yes I believe
that repentance is a part of salvation, but it is also a gift from
God since it was GRANTED to the gentiles at the house of Cornelius. LK 13:3 NKJV "I tell you, no: but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.". But I also believe repentance is just changing our minds, agreeing with God about sin and looking to Jesus as the near kinsman who purchased our forgiveness with His blood.
Click to expand...

Carolyn:

I am sure that among people described as evangelicals there is a proportion, sadly, who hold to their own traditions rather than the Biblical gospel itself. It is so necessary, as you did, to stress repentance for sin as part of the glorious gospel message.

Blessings.
 
Carolyn said:

Act_11:18

 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

I believe that repentance is very much a part of salvation. I remarked to a 6th grade Sunday School class that I rarely heard repentance preached in that church. The preachers daughter
replied. "We have never done anything wrong." She had asked Jesus into her heart and was baptized, but had never been convicted of sin or repented. Something is wrong here. That church was full of adultry, incest, leadership in sin. Yes I believe
that repentance is a part of salvation, but it is also a gift from
God since it was GRANTED to the gentiles at the house of Cornelius. LK 13:3 NKJV "I tell you, no: but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.". But I also believe repentance is just changing our minds, agreeing with God about sin and looking to Jesus as the near kinsman who purchased our forgiveness with His blood.
Click to expand...

First let me say that I agree with you in what you have said. But I would ask you to give me your understanding of a few things.
I judge my own repentance by this...if I could undo something I have done would I. If I can honestly say yes then I have truly repented.
If I can do something about it and do if it will not cause harm to someone, I will.


ARE THEY STILL SAVED?
What do you think would happen if someone where to die and they have not forgiven someone. They have tried but in all honesty they have not. They have not truly repented (chcanged their mind).
What happens if someone gets in an arguement and says unkind things, crosses the road, gets hit by a truck and dies. Are they still saved?
When a person sins, any sin, are they still in Christ or are they not in Christ until they repent of that sin?
 
reba said:
Are we forgiven if we don't repent?
Click to expand...

Sure, If Christ died for you, however one whom He died for will eventually repent as an evidence of forgiveness ! But a person Christ died for is born into this world forgiven of all their Trespasses, because God charged them all to Christ instead of them !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Sure, If Christ died for you, however one whom He died for will eventually repent as an evidence of forgiveness ! But a person Christ died for is born into this world forgiven of all their Trespasses, because God charged them all to Christ instead of them !
Click to expand...

This in not Biblical nonsense because there is nothing Biblical about it, its rather, religious nonsense. JESUS said in Luke 13:3, "--except ye repent, ye shall ALL (emp. mine) LIKEWISE (emp.mine) perish. How many is ALL? What meaneth the word "except"?
 
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