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Is believing/faith a work ?

rogerg said:
Perhaps I'm wrong but in the stating of the receiving of grace, it seems to me that the "we " was intended to include all of the elect - apostles and others elect alike - for obedience to the faith - that through the Spirit, all elect are made obedient.

[1Pe 1:2 KJV] 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
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This is correct.
 
rogerg

Perhaps I'm wrong but in the stating of the receiving of grace, it seems to me that the "we " was intended to include all of the elect - apostles and others elect alike - for obedience to the faith
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I agree with the basic premise, I just dont think God gave everyone Grace to be an Apostle, obedience to the Faith, Yes, we can only obey the Gospel by and through the Grace of the Holy Spirit causing our obedience.

that through the Spirit, all elect are made obedient.
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Most definitely, 1 Pet 1:22

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
 
jaybo said:
Night Cooper!
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Do you understand what your postscript is actually saying? The verse is stating that to be transformed, the mind must be renewed. The question is: how can a corrupt mind renew itself? The answer is: it can't. So, to be transformed, something outside of itself, but not itself, must take action to renew it. That something is God- He has to be the one to do it. This means that until and unless He does, the mind remains conformed and corrupted, with the individual unable to comprehend the true gospel. God does not do this for everyone - only the elect.
So, it is not within an individual's power to transform their own mind.
By it, I think that by your own choice of that verse, you've contradicted your own prior statements.

""Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God—what is good and well-pleasing and perfect." Romans 12:2 NET""

I believe this verse confirms that - that the renewing is only by the Holy Ghost.

[Tit 3:5 KJV] 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 
brightfame52 said:
rogerg



I agree with the basic premise, I just dont think God gave everyone Grace to be an Apostle, obedience to the Faith, Yes, we can only obey the Gospel by and through the Grace of the Holy Spirit causing our obedience.



Most definitely, 1 Pet 1:22

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
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I definitely agree with that, brightfame52. I think that we were just looking at it from different perspectives.
God definitely gives abilities and grace to different people for different purposes - the Bible makes that very clear.
 
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rogerg said:
In case I wasn't clear, electedbyhim, I was agreeing with you, not disagreeing. Sometimes when I reread my posts,
I realize that I come across seeming to not convey what I had intended to.
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I understand this.

I think I do the same thing at times.
 
Cooper said:
Luke 3:6 And all flesh will see the salvation of God.’”
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Only those saved can see the salvation of God -- they are the "all". The "all" is not everyone because not everyone can or will be able to spiritually see (perceive) the salvation of God: that salvation is Christ Jesus.
Cooper said:
Acts 2:21 ‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
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As with the above, the "everyone" does not mean every person because it (the "everyone") is modified and delimited by "will be saved". Everyone who is saved, because they're saved, know the name of the Lord and His attributes as Saviour - so they comprise the "everyone". The salvation mentioned by the verse is the salvation of the last day from God's wrath.


Cooper said:
Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
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You forgot to include verse 5:17 too which explains who "all men" are. They are only those who receive (are given)
the "abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness" by "Jesus Christ."

[Rom 5:17 KJV]
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Cooper said:
Romans 10:13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
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Same as for Acts 2:21 above.

Cooper said:
1 Timothy 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
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Not that He "desires", but instead, "will have" (see KJV following). Big difference. But even should it say God desires it (or desires anything) to happen, He WILL make it happen. Should it be God's will that He desires all men to become saved and come to the knowledge of truth, then beyond question, they MUST be saved and come to knowledge of truth. But that is not what was intended. The "all men" can only be the elect not everyone, otherwise, everyone ever born must become saved.

[1Ti 2:4 KJV] 4 Who[G3739] will have[G2309] all[G3956] men[G444] to be saved,[G4982] and[G2532] to come[G2064] unto[G1519] the knowledge[G1922] of the truth.[G225]

thelō
  1. to will, have in mind, intend
    1. to be resolved or determined, to purpose
    2. to desire, to wish
    3. to love
      1. to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
    4. to take delight in, have pleasure
This verse shows that if God desires something, He will make it occur. It is not dependent man to accomplish.

[Job 23:13 KJV]
13 But he [is] in one [mind], and who can turn him? and [what] his soul desireth, even [that] he doeth.

Cooper said:
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 2:12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,
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Titus 3:4 & 5 explain who the "all men" are. They are NOT because of their works of righteousness, but "according to his mercy", they receive "the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost" - the elect.
Yes, Titus 2:12 provides instructions on how true Christians are supposed to live - that is how Christians gain spiritual wisdom and knowledge. This type of instruction is used throughout the Bible in many places. However, it does not mean we need to or can do anything to be saved, if that's your thought.

[Tit 3:4-5 KJV]
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Cooper said:
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
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[2Pe 3:9 KJV] 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The "us-ward" (or, if you'd prefer, the "you") are the elect. We see this by the salutation of 2 Peter 1:1 regarding who Peter's audience is -- it is the elect. They alone have "obtained like precious faith". How did they obtain it- of themselves? No, but only "through the righteousness of God and Saviour Jesus Christ" - they are the "us-ward" (or the "you") of 2 Pet 3:9. It is not intended to be everyone.

[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
 
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