Is believing/faith a work ?

[Jethro Bodine]

And what if the "believers" change their mind later?

They either lose the justification they had, or they show they never really had it to begin with (i.e. Galatians 5:2-4).

Or act like unbelievers by sinning against a neighbor?
Still saved?

Depends on if their bad behavior is the result of unbelief or not.

Sin condemns the person who has stopped believing, or never believed to begin with (Hebrews 10:26-28).
Sin does not condemn the person who's sin is covered by the Ministry and Sacrifice of Christ that they believe and trust in, that Ministry and Sacrifice continually interceding for them on their behalf on the altar in heaven (Hebrews 7:25, Romans 8:34).

Or was Jesus talking about a completed life of belief before the day of judgement?

He was talking about the person who is presently 'believing'.
'Hearing' and 'believing' are in the present tense in John 5:24.
Whoever is presently hearing His word, and presently believing has eternal life and has passed from death to life.

Truly, truly, I say to you that the one hearing My word and believing the One having sent Me, he has eternal life and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:24

This is in real time and in this age and not at the moment of transition into the afterlife, being easily confirmed by these passages:

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
1 John 2:24-25

The person who believes and continues to believe is saved now and has eternal life now, and will remain that way as long as they are believing.

 

[GodsGrace]

James 2:14-26
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
_________________
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen - Hebrews 11:1

So faith and works work together in unison. True genuine faith automatically produces works, for example if you have faith in a chair what will you do? Sit in it, if you don't, you won't. Works is the proof of your faith since faith isn't a tangible thing. Many can claim faith due to it not being tangible but true faith produces works, or as Jesus said in Matthew 7, ye shall know them by their fruit.
And in verses 21-23, anyone can say Lord Lord but not all truly have faith. Faith is measured by your walk not your talk by your life not your lips by your movement not your mouth. So works don't get us into heaven no we obey not to become children of God but because we are children of God we obey. But faith in Christ, through the power of the Holy Spirit, changes us and good works AUTOMATICALLY come if your faith is genuine.

Wow. Where did you learn to post like this?
So young.
:nod

 

[Rookie]

You erroneously think that you have to add works to faith to be made righteous by that faith.

I said that good works automatically come from faith.

 

[Rookie]

Wow. Where did you learn to post like this?
So young.
:nod

Jesus Christ, reading Scripture and a ton of sermons. Glory to God. My heroes in the faith today are men like Tony Evans, Voddie Baucham, Paul Washer, RC Sproul, John Macarthur, Jeff Durbin and my own local pastor and especially my mom & pops

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus Christ, reading Scripture and a ton of sermons. Glory to God. My heroes in the faith today are men like Tony Evans, Voddie Baucham, Paul Washer, RC Sproul, John Macarthur, Jeff Durbin and my own local pastor and especially my mom & pops

Amen and God bless you!
I look forward to more of your posts.

 

[Rookie]

Amen and God bless you!
I look forward to more of your posts.

Thank you so much, very encouraging for a young one tryna navigate this walk... Not too much of those around me that i know.

And yes I will keep posting!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I said that good works automatically come from faith.

That post was to Hopeful, not you.

 

[Hopeful]

Justification occurs when we believe he exists and that he is the ransom for our sins, and we want that. Then we will do what He said to do.

We won't be justified until we do what He wants us to do.
The devils believe He exists and He is the payment for sin.
But they won't act on their belief.

What you're not getting is that is not how you get justified (made righteous). The believing does that ALL BY ITSELF. The work that follows is the RESULT of being made righteous, not the work that makes you righteous. Work does not make us righteous.

The devils are justified then, according to your doctrine.

Work can never do that because justification occurs when your unrighteousness is forgiven, not when you do a righteous ritual or work.

Sin is remitted by an action on our part.
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ...for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

That's how Abraham, our example (Romans 4:23-24) was justified (Romans 4:6). God does not wait until you do something righteous to make you righteous. You do something righteous because you were made righteous. At which time you are SHOWN to be righteous, not made righteous. Abraham was MADE righteous in Genesis 15:6. He was SHOWN to be righteous in Genesis 22:12.

Belief without action is just a smoke screen.
Abraham believed and acted on that belief.
So must we.

 

[brightfame52]

Alrighty then, using your logic then Bible is then a fallible and untrustworthy resource as if your interpretation is right, then all those verses contradict themselves and the foundation of the Bible collapses. My friend, maybe we need to reevaluate things.

You sound like you are unsure!

 

[brightfame52]

No. (You didn't actually ask me the question).

Answer: Everybody is justified when they believe just as Abraham our example was justified. I wanted to see if you could answer this basic Biblical question. Romans 4:3, Romans 4:23-24.

Evasion and dodge ball

 

[Hopeful]

I did not know I said that. I didn't, of course.

You didn't say it., and on further musing have decided that faith can be eclipsed by inaction.
If someone believes Jesus came and died for our sins, but refuses to follow His directives, did they really believe unto righteousness?
I think not.

 

[Hopeful]

You erroneously think that you have to add works to faith to be made righteous by that faith.

The only works Paul wrote against were circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, tithing, and sabbath keeping.
These won't save a man.
But repentance from sin and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins are not the works of the Law and are essential to salvation.
Your doctrine robs folks of doing anything by their faith.

 

[Hopeful]

Belief was worth everything to Abraham.
He was justified by his faith apart from work when he believed God in Genesis 15:6.
That justification was shown to be genuine by his obedience in Genesis 22:12.

Abraham's obedience in Genesis 22:12 did not make his faith effectual towards justification. It showed his faith in Genesis 15:6 to have been effectual.

Faith shown by obedience.
Perfect !
I showed my faith by obedience to the exhortations about repentance from sin and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins.
How about you?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We won't be justified until we do what He wants us to do.

Abraham was justified solely on the basis of his believing.
The demonstration and proof of his believing in Genesis 22:12 did not make him righteous. It showed him to be righteous. He became righteous way back in Genesis 15:6. You are still stuck in the erroneous Catholic doctrine of justification.

The devils believe He exists and He is the payment for sin.
But they won't act on their belief.

Because they don't have faith. They believe the gospel is true because they know it's true. They do not believe their sins are forgiven in Christ. Big difference. They do not have justifying faith in God. That's James' point about dead faith. Dead faith is NO faith. It's not real faith that their sins are forgiven in Christ. That's why that 'faith' does not work righteousness. It's not faith that one's sins are forgiven in Christ.

 

[Hopeful]

Believing implies trust.
Demons do not trust in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin.
They do not have the faith of Abraham who believed the promises of God as demonstrated by his obedience.

Demonstrating that faith is the difference between devils and those who actually trust God.
The devils won't act on faith.
Abraham and the repentant have.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Demonstrating that faith is the difference between devils and those who actually trust God.

No, lol.
The difference is demons don't believe that their sins have been forgiven in Jesus Christ.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The devils won't act on faith.

They have no faith that their sins have been forgiven in Christ to act on. That's why demons don't do acts of righteousness.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Abraham and the repentant have.

Abraham and the righteous have works to SHOW they have the righteousness of God through faith. We don't become righteous by doing righteous things. That only happens by having your unrighteousness removed through forgiveness of that righteousness. Righteous deeds and rituals do nothing to make a person righteous. Only forgiveness can do that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I showed my faith by obedience to the exhortations about repentance from sin and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins.

Yes, but that did not MAKE you righteous.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The only works Paul wrote against were circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, tithing, and sabbath keeping.
These won't save a man.
But repentance from sin and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins are not the works of the Law and are essential to salvation.

Not even the righteousness of 'love your neighbor as yourself' can make you righteous. Only having your sins removed through forgiveness can make you righteous.