Is believing/faith a work ?

[Jethro Bodine]

It depends. Were you saved/Justified before God before or after you believed in Christ?

When was Abraham justified, before he believed, or when he believed? What does the Bible say?

 

[GodsGrace]

Well your right, I havent read this entire thread so maybe you did give it before. But if you're not willing to do a copy/paste or at least say which post you posted it in, then that hurts any credibility that you think you have.

Only one hand clapping there, huh?

Yes. I already posted it is some answer!

I've already posted everything hundreds of times.
Guess it's time to get off the forum!!
LOL
OR, that could just become my standard answer.
LOL

 

[GodsGrace]

According to the "You musn't do anything for salvation or be called a legalist" camp, God expects nothing from us but to roll over and play saved.
Or is that "work" too?

Didn't you know?
Jesus DID IT ALL.
You get yourself on that couch and DON'T DO ANYTHING!
It might even be a sin !

Gee. I wonder if that makes things NEUTRAL,
or
Maybe it even goes so far as to mean that I could sin all I want to (which I've heard)
and STILL BE SAVED!

Isn't Christianity wonderful?

 

[Edward]

Didn't you know?
Jesus DID IT ALL.
You get yourself on that couch and DON'T DO ANYTHING!
It might even be a sin !

Gee. I wonder if that makes things NEUTRAL,
or
Maybe it even goes so far as to mean that I could sin all I want to (which I've heard)
and STILL BE SAVED!

Isn't Christianity wonderful?

Tra la la, it sure is! His love covers a multitude of sins! He knows man will continue to sin even after he is born of the spirit because of his fleshly nature. Hmm, that does sound sorta like a blank check! Nothing too big though, ok?

Oh wait, what does this say?
Galatians 6
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not..../KJV

I must've missed that one before, Lol! These three verses totally destroy the premise given in the OP (and 2000 more after that Lol!). Do you know how angry God gets when somebody mocks Him? I don't but I fear the Lord more than that to mock Him! That sounnds dangerous and He gives us a warning not to do that. To the hearers but not doers of the word is the ones who Jesus will say, I never knew you. (that will be a terrrible day for Jesus to have to say that to these people).

But if you sit on your couch and say, tra la la I don't have to do anything at any time because Salavation is free so I don't have to do good works and Jesus will come one day and work His magic and make me perfect and take me to heaven...! Here's the problem with that (v8), ok zap you are born again and saved! Now we in our Family take equal responsibility towards the family and also, those who the Family may want to adopt so are charged with the responsibility of chasing stray sheep for our Father, because He told us to. We are commanded to sow to our new spirit that has been given to us and to stop sowing to the flesh (and being cheap & lazy). If you continue to live for your fleshly self and not your spirit, then you are making your own decisions and have turned your back on God and said, I'm my own family. So you better start treating yourself and others to some of your good works that you can do for them. Is "Let me Help" not in your vocabulary?

That brings us to good works. (v9). Do you Love the Lord? Would you do a favor for Him if he needed it? Would you make Him pay you or say no? Of course not! The Lord told us, as our Father, we are to be good kids and love our neighbor like we are doing the favor for Him and not the homeless alcoholic guy. You don't want to help him because he'll probably spend it on alcohol anyway, right? But newsflash they are human beings and get hungry every day just like your own righteous self. You don't know if he will spend it on alcohol, that's an excuse! He probably IS hungry.

The Lord said why wouldn't you give me to eat? You said, when? When you didn't see me sitting in diguise as a homeless man...There is a scripture for that if you really want me to look it up, lol. But these 3 verses are enough to destroy the threads premise.

 

[GodsGrace]

Tra la la, it sure is! His love covers a multitude of sins! He knows man will continue to sin even after he is born of the spirit because of his fleshly nature. Hmm, that does sound sorta like a blank check! Nothing too big though, ok?

Oh wait, what does this say?
Galatians 6
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not..../KJV

I must've missed that one before, Lol! These three verses totally destroy the premise given in the OP (and 2000 more after that Lol!). Do you know how angry God gets when somebody mocks Him? I don't but I fear the Lord more than that to mock Him! That sounnds dangerous and He gives us a warning not to do that. To the hearers but not doers of the word is the ones who Jesus will say, I never knew you. (that will be a terrrible day for Jesus to have to say that to these people).

But if you sit on your couch and say, tra la la I don't have to do anything at any time because Salavation is free so I don't have to do good works and Jesus will come one day and work His magic and make me perfect and take me to heaven...! Here's the problem with that (v8), ok zap you are born again and saved! Now we in our Family take equal responsibility towards the family and also, those who the Family may want to adopt so are charged with the responsibility of chasing stray sheep for our Father, because He told us to. We are commanded to sow to our new spirit that has been given to us and to stop sowing to the flesh (and being cheap & lazy). If you continue to live for your fleshly self and not your spirit, then you are making your own decisions and have turned your back on God and said, I'm my own family. So you better start treating yourself and others to some of your good works that you can do for them. Is "Let me Help" not in your vocabulary?

That brings us to good works. (v9). Do you Love the Lord? Would you do a favor for Him if he needed it? Would you make Him pay you or say no? Of course not! The Lord told us, as our Father, we are to be good kids and love our neighbor like we are doing the favor for Him and not the homeless alcoholic guy. You don't want to help him because he'll probably spend it on alcohol anyway, right? But newsflash they are human beings and get hungry every day just like your own righteous self. You don't know if he will spend it on alcohol, that's an excuse! He probably IS hungry.

The Lord said why wouldn't you give me to eat? You said, when? When you didn't see me sitting in diguise as a homeless man...There is a scripture for that if you really want me to look it up, lol. But these 3 verses are enough to destroy the threads premise.

Great post!
Nothing to add.
:nod


(I just don't understand the "works are not necessary" crowd when that's all Jesus spoke about).
(almost all).

 

[GodsGrace]

Your response:


Post #175 of the A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY thread
See link: https://christianforums.net/threads/a-discussion-on-total-depravity.95683/page-9
... and I quote ...


You're lying.... here's the proof .... you've done it so often that I started keeping track.
Now, it's possible you don't communicate ideas well. As a representation of the forum I would hope that is not the case. But I assume you mean what you say and you said and I will repeat it word for word per Post #175:


STOP IT! ... stop making things up. You done it elsewhere.

______________________________________________
Post 201 of A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY
wondering said:

Because I biblically back up what I state.
Because I quote it from the Institutes and the WCF.

keep your word per Post 201 ... try using quotes ....

I'm sorry if you love me.
I'm already married.

But, apparently you don't understand the difference between the following two scenarios:


1. Wondering states that the reformed faith teaches that God is unloving, unmerciful and unjust.

2. Wondering states that, due to its teachings, the reformed faith represents God as unloving, unmerciful and unjust.

I do think I can state pretty darn well what I believe.
PERHAPS it is YOU that cannot understand because you're clouded by your infatuation of me.
OR, you really are handicapped understanding the English language.
A problem I don't have.

But yes, you keep track of all my posts.
I'd do it too if I were infatuated with you.

Or is it infatuated BY you?

Come on, give us the answser.
Mr. English.

 

[GodsGrace]

Stop making false statements ... or prove me wrong and give quotes (title, author, page #)

You claim Reform Theology teaches God is Unjust, Unmerciful and Unloving ... go to one of the confessions are bring out the quote. You claim Piper and MacArthur said God is the author of evil ... give us the quote.
You are much better at support for the R.C. mass doctrine.

Ummm.
Do you know the difference between YouTube and a book?
I don't know what book you're speaking of.

If you have time to follow me around,
you have time to check out for yourself what Piper, MacArthur and Sproul believe.
It's rather shocking that you don't.

 

[jaybo]

There are now over 2,600 posts in this thread.

 

[brightfame52]

edward

Your comp[rehension isn't very good is it?

Its fair, but please stop with the sly insults.

You did not see me condition Salvation on works. You did see me condition our reward on works.

Okay, but still whoever it is, if we condition Salvation on anything we do, its works, no matter how much we deny it or minimize it !

 

[brightfame52]

When was Abraham justified, before he believed, or when he believed? What does the Bible say?

Im asking for your understanding. Are you afraid to answer the question ?

 

[atpollard]

In my non-Calvy understanding, inherent in the gospel message itself is the faith needed for a person to know that the gospel message they are hearing and can't see really is true (Romans 10:17, Hebrews 11:1 KJV). And so in that time of revelation and enlightenment when the door of faith is open to them they have the ability via the illumination of the Spirit (Hebrews 6:4-6) to choose or reject the gospel according to their own will concerning the matter. But certainly not absent the strong and persuasive force of God to help make the right choice.

That sounds a lot like the conclusion that John Wesley came to (not a bad thing at all considering what he and Billy Graham ... who believed likewise ... accomplished per Ephesians 2:10).

 

[Rookie]

It doesnt matter how you slice this, if we make anything we do a condition to get saved, its works

If you want to view it that way then that's between you and God. You asked a question and I answered it, so if you're not satisfied with it don't ask questions, unless your intent wasn't to really learn anything.

God Bless

 

[brightfame52]

If you want to view it that way then that's between you and God. You asked a question and I answered it, so if you're not satisfied with it don't ask questions, unless your intent wasn't to really learn anything.

God Bless

I tell you what I have learned, if we believe anything we have done was condition to do in order for God to save us, then its works salvation and a abomination before God. That I have learned friend.

 

[Rookie]

I tell you what I have learned, if we believe anything we have done was condition to do in order for God to save us, then its works salvation and a abomination before God. That I have learned friend.

Alrighty then, using your logic then Bible is then a fallible and untrustworthy resource as if your interpretation is right, then all those verses contradict themselves and the foundation of the Bible collapses. My friend, maybe we need to reevaluate things.

 

[Hopeful]

Didn't you know?
Jesus DID IT ALL.
You get yourself on that couch and DON'T DO ANYTHING!
It might even be a sin !

Such a forlorn doctrine.
Jesus did the suffering and dying, but we can't react to it with repentance and water baptism in His name for the remission of sins.

Gee. I wonder if that makes things NEUTRAL,
or
Maybe it even goes so far as to mean that I could sin all I want to (which I've heard)
and STILL BE SAVED!

Nothing would make any difference for those who imagine they are saved before the day of judgement.

Isn't Christianity wonderful?

Hundreds of sects with doctrines/ways to disobey God, and still call yourself a believer, suits the disobedient haters of Government to a tee.

 

[Hopeful]

Tra la la, it sure is! His love covers a multitude of sins! He knows man will continue to sin even after he is born of the spirit because of his fleshly nature. Hmm, that does sound sorta like a blank check! Nothing too big though, ok?

Oh wait, what does this say?
Galatians 6
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not..../KJV

I must've missed that one before, Lol! These three verses totally destroy the premise given in the OP (and 2000 more after that Lol!). Do you know how angry God gets when somebody mocks Him? I don't but I fear the Lord more than that to mock Him! That sounnds dangerous and He gives us a warning not to do that. To the hearers but not doers of the word is the ones who Jesus will say, I never knew you. (that will be a terrrible day for Jesus to have to say that to these people).

But if you sit on your couch and say, tra la la I don't have to do anything at any time because Salavation is free so I don't have to do good works and Jesus will come one day and work His magic and make me perfect and take me to heaven...! Here's the problem with that (v8), ok zap you are born again and saved! Now we in our Family take equal responsibility towards the family and also, those who the Family may want to adopt so are charged with the responsibility of chasing stray sheep for our Father, because He told us to. We are commanded to sow to our new spirit that has been given to us and to stop sowing to the flesh (and being cheap & lazy). If you continue to live for your fleshly self and not your spirit, then you are making your own decisions and have turned your back on God and said, I'm my own family. So you better start treating yourself and others to some of your good works that you can do for them. Is "Let me Help" not in your vocabulary?

That brings us to good works. (v9). Do you Love the Lord? Would you do a favor for Him if he needed it? Would you make Him pay you or say no? Of course not! The Lord told us, as our Father, we are to be good kids and love our neighbor like we are doing the favor for Him and not the homeless alcoholic guy. You don't want to help him because he'll probably spend it on alcohol anyway, right? But newsflash they are human beings and get hungry every day just like your own righteous self. You don't know if he will spend it on alcohol, that's an excuse! He probably IS hungry.

The Lord said why wouldn't you give me to eat? You said, when? When you didn't see me sitting in diguise as a homeless man...There is a scripture for that if you really want me to look it up, lol. But these 3 verses are enough to destroy the threads premise.

EEKS !!!
You should have provided a sarcasm alert before your initial paragraph !
I'm glad I read the rest before responding.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Im asking for your understanding. Are you afraid to answer the question ?

No. (You didn't actually ask me the question).

Answer: Everybody is justified when they believe just as Abraham our example was justified. I wanted to see if you could answer this basic Biblical question. Romans 4:3, Romans 4:23-24.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

saved before the day of judgement.

John 5:24

 

[GodsGrace]

Im asking for your understanding. Are you afraid to answer the question ?

LOL
No BF,
YOU are afraid of answering questions.

 

[Hopeful]

edward
Its fair, but please stop with the sly insults.

Okay, but still whoever it is, if we condition Salvation on anything we do, its works, no matter how much we deny it or minimize it !

It is not the "works" that Paul wrote about for salvation.
He wrote against circumcision, feast keeping, sabbath keeping, tithing, and dietary rule keeping for salvation.
Nothing against repentance from sin or water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
Nothing against praying or fasting.
He wrote nothing against loving God with all your heart, soul, and strength.
Nothing against doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.
These are all conditions for salvation.