Is believing/faith a work ?

[Deidr]

EPHESIANS

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[Deidr]

EPHESIANS

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Do you see that this is the salvation-deliverence
that is spoken of? IT'S RIGHT THERE....

THEY WERE DEAD AND God made them alive

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Here it is again....showing you what He saved them from.
He quickened us -made us alive

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

He shows kindness "through Jesus"

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Now what does it say- read it over and over and over.

We are created in Christ Jesus unto....good works

not only that but God ordained that we should walk in good works.....

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

right here gives you a hint of what works of righteousness is. IT'S what you try to do out of your own flesh-natural ability to obtain righteousness.

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Now here's an amazing passage
Asked yourself why do we need access to the father?

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerFather?

Who is the foundation- Jesus Christ
Does it say Calvin's doctrine is the foundation? No

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Built so who habitates in us-?God through the Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

Then you have not read....the the Bible

Thats a false accusation

 

[brightfame52]

That's an issue for you in how you see.
You have not understood the Bible from the foundation of trusting Jesus......as you see you are trusting in your docrtine...

Christ is set forth in Doctrine, the Doctrine of Christ, the teachings of Christ 1 Tim 6:3


If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
2 Jn 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

You belittle Doctrine, you sound so foolish and unlearned !

 

[brightfame52]

I'm not stuck on Works in order to be regenerated....

Don't you see that you can be saved from many things..

Don't you see that regenerated comes before Justification.

Do you even know that man can be Justified
more than once.

Are do you choose not to read..?

Did you even read Ephesians 2 for yourself

If you did what were they saved(delivered) from.

You sound more and more mixed up and confused, and still promoting works salvation, which in essence is unbelief.

 

[Deidr]

Thats a false accusation

Maybe I should not have said that...and I'm sorry.
But It's hard for me to see that if you read Ephesians how you can continue to say what ya say.

 

[Deidr]

Christ is set forth in Doctrine, the Doctrine of Christ, the teachings of Christ 1 Tim 6:3


If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
2 Jn 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

You belittle Doctrine, you sound so foolish and unlearned !

If you say so

 

[Deidr]

You sound more and more mixed up and confused, and still promoting works salvation, which in essence is unbelief.

If you say so...and if you think you know so, and if you think the Bible teaches you are correct....then so be it to your understanding.

 

[brightfame52]

Maybe I should not have said that...and I'm sorry.
But It's hard for me to see that if you read Ephesians how you can continue to say what ya say.

I speak the Truth

 

[brightfame52]

If you say so

Scripture says so

 

[brightfame52]

If you say so...and if you think you know so, and if you think the Bible teaches you are correct....then so be it to your understanding.

Okay may God be pleased to grant you repentance friend

 

[Deidr]

I speak the Truth

I'm sure you believe that

 

[Deidr]

Scripture says so

Okay may God be pleased to grant you repentance friend

If you say so

 

[Fastfredy0]

Therefore, when we believe we are believing in the one that has done the work. Therefore again believing in this case it not a "work" that earns/merits us anything. Even I do not see it as a work, but the way.

Agreed.
To some degree it comes down to semantics:
Yes, we do no works to be saved (Eph. 2:8-9) (it is a gift of grace and grace is not grace if you earn it)
Yes, faith is some the individual does to be saved.
So, why is our faith not a work? ... because our faith is caused to be by God ..... or in technical terms the Spirit regenerates us (born again) causing us simultaneously to believe salvificly and be repentant.

John 6:29 Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe [adhere to, trust in, rely on, and have faith] in the One whom He has sent.” Here is says faith (belief) is a work and the work is of God.

 

[brightfame52]

The proper understanding of Faith not being a work condition that man performs in order to get God to save them, it is to understand that Faith to believe is all of grace, and not of us, and hence eliminates any grounds for boasting, as I believed and you didn't, and so, God saved me and not you because I believed in Christ, and you didn't.

Now everyone is familiar with Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This passage clearly shows that Faith in the realm of Salvation isnt of us , its included, comprehended in Grace Salvation, a Gift of God.

Understand here Paul is saying comprehensively #1 Grace is a Gift, #2 Salvation is a Gift #3 Faith is a Gift, so where is boasting ? If all these phases are of Grace, where is room for boasting?

Notice Rom 3:27

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Now what is the Law of Faith that excludes works ? Its the Law of Grace. The scripture consistently shows this contrast Rom 11:6

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

This is True because Faith is the product not of mans freewill, but of Grace Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

It cant be any plainer that Faith here is the product of Grace,

The word by as in by grace in Vs 16 is kata and it means according to, so faith is according to Grace, so Grace is the principle of operation that produces Faith, hence the of Faith versus the law of works in Rom 3:27

So thats the way and only way that Faith is in contrast to works, when its understood to be the product of supernatural grace. So in that regards, there is no room for boasting, not even in our faith or believing in Jesus Christ. Remember even the believing is by grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through/because of grace:32

 

[brightfame52]

fastfreddy

So, why is our faith not a work? ... because our faith is caused to be by God

Yes, caused by the Grace of regeneration, which releases one from the power of old adam

 

[brightfame52]

Believing is a work because its something we do Rom 10:9

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Believe here is in the active voice which:

Represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action. e.g., in the sentence, "Jesus returned to Capernaum" Jesus performs the action.

Again a work by definition, the greek word ergon:

1. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
2. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Also To believe is a work of mental ability of the mind and ; the understanding, and the will, conscience and affections. Paul wrote of receiving the Love of the Truth 2 Thess 2:10

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

So If I say Im saved because I believed, God saved me because I performed that action, thats Salvation by my works, even if we count it as a work of righteousness, what does Titus 3:5 say

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[brightfame52]

Faith becomes a work, a meritorious work at that, whenever its taught that Christ died for everyone, yet nobody is actually saved by that, His death merely made getting saved available or possible, but when someone adds their work/act of Faith or believing, that made them saved !

These will say though Christs death was a payment for sin, yet nobody is actually saved by it !34

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Believing is a work because its something we do Rom 10:9

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Believe here is in the active voice which:

Represents the subject as the doer or performer of the action. e.g., in the sentence, "Jesus returned to Capernaum" Jesus performs the action.

Again a work by definition, the greek word ergon:

1. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
2. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Also To believe is a work of mental ability of the mind and ; the understanding, and the will, conscience and affections. Paul wrote of receiving the Love of the Truth 2 Thess 2:10

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

So If I say Im saved because I believed, God saved me because I performed that action, thats Salvation by my works, even if we count it as a work of righteousness, what does Titus 3:5 say

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

So, according to you, when Paul wrote:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

...what he actually meant is:

For by grace are ye saved through  work; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

---

Here, contrary to your false teaching, we see Paul teaching the truth that believing is not working:

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Yet, according to you, what Paul must mean by that is:

But to him that worketh not, but worketh, his work is counted for righteousness.

 

[Fastfredy0]

we see Paul teaching the truth that believing is not working:

Interesting, God calls 'Faith' as work ... John 6:29 Jesus answered, “This is the work of God: that you believe [adhere to, trust in, rely on, and have faith] in the One whom He has sent.” .... maybe He made a mistake and you are correcting it

Interesting, the dictionary defines 'Faith' as work ... "Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something." ... maybe the dictionary made a mistake and you are correcting it