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Is believing/faith a work ?

atpollard said:
As a beggar, he was already ‘de facto’ excommunicated from society.
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Not from his own family, or from communicating with anyone who might want to talk to him. After his conversation with the religious leaders, he was considered dead to everyone. His own parents were afraid to answer them, because confession of Christ meant a living death sentence.
Their sons' answer is one of the boldest in scripture.
atpollard said:
I think that I agree that HE was saved at HIS initial encounter with Jesus, I was just not prepared to draw a universal rule that everyone Jesus healed
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I would, because I think that's what an ordinary person of normal intelligence would do. I believe mental faculties are Godly gifts to all people (generally speaking.)
I know I would and my family would like Jn.4:53. Our Lord even rebuked that guy a little, which seems a tad strange considering that his child was dying. That's desperation. He knew his only hope was to petition our Savior.
atpollard said:
(or who witnessed a miracle) was immediately saved by the experience.
Judas saw many miracles and many other blind men had their sight restored … all do not seem to have been “saved” as well.
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It's difficult to know who actually saw what. Even in close proximity to an event, it really doesn't take much to obscure the view of people just 100 feet away when a few thousand people are blocking their view. I would believe a close friend, or seeing someone I recognized as healed.
I'm not sure it even says Judas himself witnessed any miracle. I do know he was a thief. He sold Jesus for no good reason. I'll give Judas this,

I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood Mt.27:4

And they said, Who cares? Who cares???
Ummm....maybe his Father cares. Maybe his Father wasn't in favor of it at all. Maybe his Father was pleased that his Son didn't turn them into smoke, before they had a little more time to think about it.
Now we can't point fingers, because they told everyone that Jesus was being punished for sins by God. Many believed that heresy.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I agree:

9Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works. 11Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me—or at least believe on account of the works themselves. John 14:9-11
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Hello Jethro Bodine.
I believe a real problem with seeing the truth is that people aren't like the Jews in Berea anymore. Paul often taught from the OT and they looked to see if what he said was true. They learned what the OT said from how the Apostles interpreted the scriptures. That's a big problem in churches today, because Jesus taught obedience to the law in mercy, which is what it was meant to be.
 
Deidr said:
Your thoughts are totally unscriptural.
You have yet to write anything to me that proves the point of the posted title.

The salvation I speak of is scriptural.
And I've never said at any point that salvation was not dependent upon God.

You obviously have ignored reading scriptures that have been posted to you. And because you will not argue your point with any scriptural evidence I find it better to move on.

✌️ and 🙌 s
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Yes it is better if you move on because nothing has changed, if you condition salvation on anything you do it is works and rejected by God!
 
brightfame52 said:
Yes it is better if you move on because nothing has changed, if you condition salvation on anything you do it is works and rejected by God!
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I know because it seems you are in a trance like state.
Especially when you neglect to read all the scriptures put in front of you that never say what you have written.

Fact is you can't even be saved by what you have written because that belief of yours would be rejected by God.

So go head and keep your pride if you wish to save face around people but God is gracious to the humble.
 
Deidr said:
I know because it seems you are in a trance like state.
Especially when you neglect to read all the scriptures put in front of you that never say what you have written.

Fact is you can't even be saved by what you have written because that belief of yours would be rejected by God.

So go head and keep your pride if you wish to save face around people but God is gracious to the humble.
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Pride is saying salvation is conditioned on what man does, so see you at the Judgment friend
 
Someone once asked USC philosopher and Christian theist, Baptist DW if he believed in "total depravity."

DW responded, “I believe in sufficient depravity.”
What’s that?
“I believe that every human being is sufficiently depraved that when we get to heaven, no one will be able to say, ‘I merited this.’”
 
Deidr said:
Someone once asked USC philosopher and Christian theist, Baptist DW if he believed in "total depravity."

DW responded, “I believe in sufficient depravity.”
What’s that?
“I believe that every human being is sufficiently depraved that when we get to heaven, no one will be able to say, ‘I merited this.’”
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Why does He use the word merit?

Merit has to do with earning.
As work you do to earn.

Recall this passage from Romans 11

Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be
recompensed unto him again?

Another words who has given to God first that God shall repay Him...
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Earning comes with an attitude.

Now what is the opposite of grace?

How about getting what you deserve
Merit, revenge or earning.

Just trying to put the title of the post in perspective of the motivation behind Ephesians 2:8-9

Therefore, when we believe we are believing in the one that has done the work. Therefore again believing in this case it not a "work" that earns/merits us anything. Even I do not see it as a work, but the way.
 
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Deidr said:
Why does He use the word merit?

Merit has to do with earning.
As work you do to earn.

Recall this passage from Romans 11

Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be
recompensed unto him again?

Another words who has given to God first that God shall repay Him...
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Earning comes with an attitude.

Now what is the opposite of grace?

How about getting what you deserve
Merit, revenge or earning.

Just trying to put the title of the post in perspective of the motivation behind Ephesians 2:8-9

Therefore, when we believe we are believing in the one that has done the work. Therefore again believing in this case it not a "work" that earns/merits us anything. Even I do not see it as a work, but the way.
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Ephesians 1

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Show one way this could be possible?



5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
brightfame52 said:
We will see
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You will see
 
When we misconstrue Faith/Believing to be that which is a condition performed by man in order to get God to save us, then we invalidate it being opposed to woks/law, and unwittingly make it a law. The principle of law works is this, when we deem it necessary to do something to gain the approval of God, and if not done, its to our eternal peril, that's the principle of law works at work in our mind, because the law work principle requires man to do something for eternal life, or Gods acceptance and approval, or favor. Moses wrote of the law principal Rom 10:5

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

So it matters not what we make the condition to be, if the non-performance of it be to our eternal peril, or the performing of it be to the gaining of Gods blessing and approval, we put ourselves under and confirm ourselves under law, and hence become obligated to keep the whole law for our final salvation, having forsaken the way of grace. 32
 
brightfame52 said:
When we misconstrue Faith/Believing to be that which is a condition performed by man in order to get God to save us, then we invalidate it being opposed to woks/law, and unwittingly make it a law. The principle of law works is this, when we deem it necessary to do something to gain the approval of God, and if not done, its to our eternal peril, that's the principle of law works at work in our mind, because the law work principle requires man to do something for eternal life, or Gods acceptance and approval, or favor. Moses wrote of the law principal Rom 10:5
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Jesus prayed, Jesus Disciplined Himself by fasting- He also learned obedience. Paul beat His body to bring it into submission.
brightfame52 said:
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

So it matters not what we make the condition to be, if the non-performance of it be to our eternal peril, or the performing of it be to the gaining of Gods blessing and approval, we put ourselves under and confirm ourselves under law, and hence become obligated to keep the whole law for our final salvation, having forsaken the way of grace. 32
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brightfame52 said:
When we misconstrue Faith/Believing to be that which is a condition performed by man in order to get God to save us, then we invalidate it being opposed to woks/law, and unwittingly make it a law. The principle of law works is this, when we deem it necessary to do something to gain the approval of God, and if not done, its to our eternal peril, that's the principle of law works at work in our mind, because the law work principle requires man to do something for eternal life, or Gods acceptance and approval, or favor. Moses wrote of the law principal Rom 10:5

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

So it matters not what we make the condition to be, if the non-performance of it be to our eternal peril, or the performing of it be to the gaining of Gods blessing and approval, we put ourselves under and confirm ourselves under law, and hence become obligated to keep the whole law for our final salvation, having forsaken the way of grace. 32
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Faith that is in Christ is faith that works by love
 
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