Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Is believing/faith a work ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
If a person says that they were saved after they obeyed, or after they believed, this person is in essence saying, salvation is of myself, of my work, and whether they admit it or not, they have something to boast of. Yet Gods word insists that salvation is the Gift of God, not of man, its not of works lest any man boast Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 23
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 23
WHO on this forum ever stated we are saved by works?
Hi wondering,
It is my understanding that salvation by any means other than completely as a gift of God by His grace
through Jesus Christ, makes that means a work; that is, it is either fully a gift or it is fully a work with no in between.
It seems I recall people posting they were saved for various reasons including by their faith, or that they first had to first stop sinning in order to become saved. Both of those, along with anything else (I believe), would fall under works.
Post 502 did you understand what was said ?
I agree totally.
Obviously you didnt carefully read what was stated. You want to take it sentence by sentence to get the proper sense of what has been said ?
I understand that to mean that its Gods work to do, to cause His elect to believe on Christ. The elect believe according to Gods work Eph 1:19
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Sorry I didn't read all 500+ posts. But is it your thought a person is sanctified (prior to faith in Christ)?
Jesus Himself stated
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."
That does not mean their sins were forgiven by works performed. God Himself provided that lamb.
He asked, "Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
And it's a good thing He acted on that faith.
And this is the point in time His sins were forgiven not before.
Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Its still grace.
As the only "works" ever written against in the bible were the works of the Law, (primarily circumcision, and dietary rules), your POV impugns repentance from sin, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, any resistance to temptation, and even remaining faithful.
If one wants to be Pharisaical about it, breathing is a work.
Keeping your eyes open while driving is a "work".
Swallowing after chewing is a "work".
All three are "works" one must do to be saved.
Let me ask you thin...Will a man who never prays be saved on the day of judgment?
Were that correct Hopeful, then anything that someone has to do for salvation must be done solely because there is a law governing and demanding it be done. Otherwise, were there no such law, then there would be no need to do it, and so we couldn't be denied salvation for not doing it, right? That is, a law would be present whether we realized it or not.
So, just by saying there are things to be done by the recipient for salvation, is the equivalent of saying
there is a law and the works of law for it must be done. But we know salvation cannot be acquired through law. By that then, we can also know that it can only be as a gift from God because as a gift is all that remains.
Repentance is a gift given from God to those saved:
Rom 2:4 KJV] 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
But repentance from what? From dead works:
[Heb 6:1 KJV]
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[Heb 9:14 KJV]
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Christ's offering itself brought the remission of sin:
[Heb 10:16-18 KJV]
16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.
Concerning baptism, only baptism of the Spirit saves or has spiritual efficacy.
[1Pe 3:21 KJV]
21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
[1Co 12:13 KJV]
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
No, not to be saved because God will not permit one of His elect to die until saved.
randy
I just asked did you read post #502
I just asked did you read post #502
I have now.
I think eyes opened, coming to the knowledge of the truth points to salvation after they came to such light.
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men a 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Clearly sanctification is by faith in Jesus and the forgiveness of sins is received. (not before) God provide the lamb and Jesus purchased us for God by His blood. (grace)
Everyone born comes into this world lost because of Satan: we are all born as unbelievers. Only by God's direct intervention are eyes opened, which He does not do for everyone. Without that, the "gospel be hid" from them and they remain blind. Eyes can only become opened when, and by, being saved/born again, so clearly, faith in Christ and the forgiveness of sin comes FROM salvation, not before. Look closely below at the "blinded the minds", "not in words which man's wisdom teacheth", "natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God", and "NEITHER CAN HE KNOW(them), BECAUSE THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED". along with the remainder of the verses, because they inform inarguably of precisely that. With that in mind, how would an unsaved person then be able to come to a knowledge of the truth? Answer: they can't.
[2Co 4:3-4 KJV]
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Infant's are unbelievers?
Therefore the Lord himself will give you c a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. f 15He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, 16for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right,
Yes, from the womb:
[Psa 58:3 KJV] 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
The other verses you posted I believe are referring to Christ: Immanuel
A unbeliever is someone who doesn't believe in Jesus. A infant doesn't have that knowledge. It's learned and either rejected or accepted when one is old enough to understand. I would state I have believed and loved Jesus as far back as my memory goes not that I was set aside at birth or before to know the righteous one. Christ Jesus.
I do believe there are a few through the ages that are set aside for Gods purposes such as Paul who was set apart from birth and called to know and serve Jesus in the Lords timing.
The point is that until someone is saved, they CANNOT believe
Saul/Paul was saved with the same salvation that everyone else is. God chose to use him, but don't forget he
described himself as the chief of sinners.
[1Ti 1:15 KJV]
15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Adding to my reply, true belief is itself a fruit of the Spirit given when one becomes saved/born again, not before.
[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,