Is believing/faith a work ?

[for_his_glory]

I can't remember if this board has a rule against discussing OSAS vs OSnAS - or any discussion of Arminianism vs Calvinism - one board I know has a rule against it. I would hate for that rule to knock out our "Faith is a work - vs "Faith is not a work" discussion; but I think we are on a slippery slope.

OSAS vs OSNAS is no longer allowed to be discussed here in CF. Same goes with Arminianism vs Calvinism or pinning any particular religion against another that causes division among the members in what and how they believe by what or who is teaching them.

CF.net does not hold to the various doctrines of man or his religious affiliation, but only the Doctrines of Christ for what He has already given to the Apostles to write in what we study from. God is infallible in all knowledge as He alone is our knowledge, man is not and errors are made in their own views and opinions. These are discussions done in a mature manner as we are all ever learning and could never exhaust our understanding of what is written in the Bible. We need to be opened for correction as the Holy Spirit gives us when we do error in our understanding as only the Holy Spirit, not man's various religions and philosophies, as only the Holy Spirit teaches us all truths in what God wants us to learn.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

John 1:1-14

 

[GodsGrace]

OSAS vs OSNAS is no longer allowed to be discussed here in CF. Same goes with Arminianism vs Calvinism or pinning any particular religion against another that causes division among the members in what and how they believe by what or who is teaching them.

CF.net does not hold to the various doctrines of man or his religious affiliation, but only the Doctrines of Christ for what He has already given to the Apostles to write in what we study from. God is infallible in all knowledge as He alone is our knowledge, man is not and errors are made in their own views and opinions. These are discussions done in a mature manner as we are all ever learning and could never exhaust our understanding of what is written in the Bible. We need to be opened for correction as the Holy Spirit gives us when we do error in our understanding as only the Holy Spirit, not man's various religions and philosophies, as only the Holy Spirit teaches us all truths in what God wants us to learn.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

John 1:1-14

If Calvinism vs Arminianism is not supposed to be discussed,,, then why is this thread allowed?

 

[for_his_glory]

If Calvinism vs Arminianism is not supposed to be discussed,,, then why is this thread allowed?

This thread is about believing faith a work and when this topic comes up there are always different points of views and opinions. It's only when these discussions take a turn down a path of destruction as man's religion begins to war against another's saying they are right and other's are wrong is when the Administrators take any action that needs to be made.

One thing I have learned since becoming a member here is that many different religions are displayed in the forums with each presenting various doctrines. We do not point fingers saying they are wrong or we are right, but to discuss why we disagree by discussing the scriptures each one of us presents in how we understand them. I have been corrected many times by the Holy Spirit using others to correct me and for that I am thankful.

Our common ground is that we all love the Lord and have accepted Him as our Lord and Savior and that only God can judge the heart as who are His own. Many only give lip service to the Lord, but deny the power there of as they would rather believe those who teach them without searching out the scriptures for them self.

 

[Hopeful]

Jesus taught the Church Leadership, His apostles to teach His doctrine to their disciples.

Why did you capitalize "church leadership"?
BTW, He taught a lot more that just the apostles.
But all those folks were of the OT, and not able to avail themselves of NT gifts we have been provided for our lives/missions.

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. Matthew 28:18-20
Paul and the other apostles taught the doctrine of Christ.

Yes He did, and we are to continue that teaching.

 

[Hopeful]

The only time believing isnt a work is when its understood that the Faith in which a believer believes did not originate from within him or her self, but it was granted to them by Sovereign Grace, otherwise believing faith defaults to a work of man naturally from within himself.

I thank God for blessing me with everything I needed to do the "work" of "believing".
And I thank God for blessing me with every other thing I was able to choose to partake of.
I pray that I may bless Him with a life spent enduring faithfully till the end.

 

[rogerg]

I use John's definition form 1 John 5:17..."All unrighteousness is sin:..."

But... if sin = unrighteousness, then unrighteousness must = sin, and therefore, we are still left without a definition of either, right? So, I guess my question remains: what is it that makes sin, sin? That particular logical dilemma aside for the moment, the Bible informs us that:

[Rom 5:19 KJV] 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Doesn't this verse instruct that many will be "made" righteous? By the word "made", we can know that for those who are righteous, it was/is given as a gift, and also know that through Christ alone is that righteousness imparted: we contribute nothing

 

[for_his_glory]

This thread is not about "sinful Perfection". Please stay on topic of the OP or your post will be deleted. Thank you.

 

[rogerg]

This thread is not about "sinful Perfection". Please stay on topic of the OP or your post will be deleted. Thank you.

I'm confused. Was that warning for me?

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm confused. Was that warning for me?

Only if it applies. This is for everyone as the postings are straying off topic.

 

[rogerg]

Only if it applies. This is for everyone as the postings are straying off topic.

Oh okay. It seemed to me the postings are all related to the topic in one way or another

 

[rogerg]

As all men were born with a conscience, it isn't hard to distinguish righteousness from unrighteousness.

I'd really like to reply but will we be off topic if I do?

 

[Hopeful]

I'd really like to reply but will we be off topic if I do?

If your post deals with faith manifested by actions (work) or not, go ahead and post !

 

[rogerg]

Receiving is a "work", according to your POV.
But we must receive it.

Okay, maybe a poor choice of words - but I'm not entirely sure that "receive" dictates a work on our part, but anyway, how about "have righteousness," instead.

We (should) all live the way we would want to be treated ourselves.

Yes, but that has nothing to do with becoming saved, does it?

o be led, one must follow.
Following is a work according to your POV.

No, to be led means that you are directed, brought. No choice involved:

to lead, take with one
to lead by laying hold of, and this way to bring to the point of destination: of an animal

Without turn from sin, one will not be saved at the final judgement.

Who is the Saviour?

It is there for the taking.
But taking, receiving, hearing, believing, turning from sin, etc. are not allowed under your POV.

No, they're not allowed in order to gain salvation because they're works, instead, they result from becoming saved.

[Rom 9:15-16 KJV]
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Embracing it would be a "work" according to your POV.

Yes, it is. But that's not what saves us.

ut taking, receiving, hearing, believing, turning from sin, etc. are not allowed under your POV.

They're definitely "allowed," they just don't bring salvation - they're from salvation - they're works. Not sure what you mean.

Nowhere did He say I could just sit on my hands and be saved.

[Rom 5:9-10 KJV]
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The above doesn't say anything that we must do to be saved. It is exclusively by Christ.

You do believe that Christ is the Saviour, don't you? If so, then you should also believe that He must be the one to do the saving.

 

[GodsGrace]

This thread is about believing faith a work and when this topic comes up there are always different points of views and opinions. It's only when these discussions take a turn down a path of destruction as man's religion begins to war against another's saying they are right and other's are wrong is when the Administrators take any action that needs to be made.

One thing I have learned since becoming a member here is that many different religions are displayed in the forums with each presenting various doctrines. We do not point fingers saying they are wrong or we are right, but to discuss why we disagree by discussing the scriptures each one of us presents in how we understand them. I have been corrected many times by the Holy Spirit using others to correct me and for that I am thankful.

Our common ground is that we all love the Lord and have accepted Him as our Lord and Savior and that only God can judge the heart as who are His own. Many only give lip service to the Lord, but deny the power there of as they would rather believe those who teach them without searching out the scriptures for them self.

Making statements affirming that faith is a work,
Is a calvinist teaching.

When someone replies that faith is not a work,
It is an arminian teaching.

So, calvinism vs arminianism IS being discussed.

Aside from the fact that calvinism and arminianism are not opposites.

 

[Hopeful]

Okay, maybe a poor choice of words - but I'm not entirely sure that "receive" dictates a work on our part, but anyway, how about "have righteousness," instead.


Yes, but that has nothing to do with becoming saved, does it?



No, to be led means that you are directed, brought. No choice involved:

to lead, take with one
to lead by laying hold of, and this way to bring to the point of destination: of an animal



Who is the Saviour?


No, they're not allowed in order to gain salvation because they're works, instead, they result from becoming saved.

[Rom 9:15-16 KJV]
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.


Yes, it is. But that's not what saves us.



They're definitely "allowed," they just don't bring salvation - they're from salvation - they're works. Not sure what you mean.


[Rom 5:9-10 KJV]
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The above doesn't say anything that we must do to be saved. It is exclusively by Christ.

You do believe that Christ is the Saviour, don't you? If so, then you should also believe that He must be the one to do the saving.

Isn't it kind of a moot point?
As the "works" Paul wrote against were the "works of the Law"?
Neither circumcision, feast keeping, tithing, travel restrictions, diet, nor anything else can save a man.
We must want salvation, and God has graciously provided the way to do so.

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

Jhn 6:28
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jhn 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

If that doesn't make it obvious that faith/believing is a work - I don't know what will.

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

Making statements affirming that faith is a work,
Is a calvinist teaching.

When someone replies that faith is not a work,
It is an arminian teaching.

Neither of those is true, wondering.

 

[Hopeful]

Neither of those is true, wondering.

In the context of this thread, it doesn't matter.
There is a doctrine out there that forbids any kind of acts "for salvation".
Paul wrote against the acts of the Law for salvation, (circumcision specifically), and some have expanded on the idea that everything including believing is one of those acts.
Living is an act.

 

[DancesWithGnostics]

Yes, There is a doctrine out there that forbids any kinds of "acts" that can be done by a person - the doctrine forbids any type of synergy between God and Man - reducing man to an automaton, a robot, a puppet.

 

[rogerg]

Isn't it kind of a moot point?
As the "works" Paul wrote against were the "works of the Law"?
Neither circumcision, feast keeping, tithing, travel restrictions, diet, nor anything else can save a man.
We must want salvation, and God has graciously provided the way to do so.

Anything someone may try to do to become saved is a work. As far as salvation is
concerned, that which is not of a gift, is a work. No natural man will of themselves, nor can of themselves, want the salvation of Christ, until they have been given it. This is because natural man (as were we all), are born worshipping and following the gospel of Satan.

[Psa 58:3 KJV]
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

The "wicked" are the unsaved.