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Is believing/faith a work ?

2nd Timothy Group said:
Believe me . . . I don't. I don't attend today's modern-day "church." Why? Because "it" hasn't a clue as to what the actual Gospel is. Totally . . . utterly . . . clueless just as were the Pharisees, Sadducees, and teachers of the law 2000 years ago. :)
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I guess I'll be reading about what you believe the actual gospel to be in your prior post.
Later...
 
rogerg said:
If you've come to the conclusion that we must do something to become saved, then you've misunderstood the gospel
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You never really reply to my posts. Just make remarks.

You said it's not the WHAT, it's the HOW.

So HOW do we become saved?
Please provide scripture.
 
wondering said:
What did Christ's role as Savior accomplish if God chooses who will be saved?
What would be the reason for the atonement?
Which theory would cover this sacrifice of the Lord?

How are the verses I've stated the WHAT and not the HOW?

They all state HOW we are to believe and behave IF we wish to receive salvation.
By what and how you mean descriptive and prescriptive....
I've showed you how they are PRESCRIPTIVE.

Now, show me how the above verses do not mean what they say by exegeting them, or by explaining how YOU understand them.

It's of no value to tell me I'm wrong...SHOW ME I'M WRONG.

Post some verse that state THE HOW, which is critical to you.
There must be so many if they're that critical....
Thanks.
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rogerg

Are you going to reply to the above?

Later.
 
wondering said:
You never really reply to my posts. Just make remarks.

You said it's not the WHAT, it's the HOW.

So HOW do we become saved?
Please provide scripture.
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Huh? As John McEnroe would say "you can't be serious"

We can do nothing to become saved. Those who become saved, are saved only because God has chosen them
for salvation - it is a complete gift - that is what makes is grace and not works.
 
Exodus 33:19 NKJV - "Then He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."

Exo 33:19 depends upon God . . . no one else.

The question is: What is "Grace"?
 
Over the years a thought struck me.
A born again sinner turned saint is transformed. The transformation happens when they put their faith in Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. But what does this actually mean? When they pray the sinners prayer? When they say the Nicene creed? Or is it when the spiritual birth happens, God only knows when, as none or some of these things have happened.

And after this event they can live anyway they like, sinful or spiritual, it does not matter.
Security. The individual has a problem. Are they changed or just deluded?

Jesus approved of John the Baptist and baptism for the forgiveness of sins. This gave a marker for those who accepted the conditions, repented and were prepared to publicaly be baptised. It gave a seal on their journey.
Paul talks about being sealed in the Holy Spirit, a deposit that guarantees the life to come. So maybe the heart lifted in praise to God is our seal. Certainly the apostles took the gifts of the spirit falling on people as confirmation of the Lords work.

But then people say, you are looking for a sign, which is sinful, God knows, and it does not have to show itself.
But then the dilemma is maybe nothing has happened if nothing has changed, and without change of what value is this today or in the future. Sinners stand under Gods judgement, and a guilty conscience is a burden that needs release.
Many believers testify that their burden was lifted, they walked in the daylight knowing forgiveness.

So if a belief system has no outward confirmation does it actually exist or is it not just deception and a mirage designed to give the feeling of belonging without its reality?

Those who seemed to want a none change faith, seemed not to know what faith was gained or in what, so maybe they just wanted the outward shell of belief without its content.

God bless you
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
You're kidding, right? You have completely ignored my message to you, and you're charging others of the same thing? You're expecting others to respond when you don't?

Maybe "Embassador" is a title meant for someone else?
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Did you read my posts to you above?
Am I going to be wasting my time by replying to your 3 page post?
Are you here for serious conversation or to deride members and to argue?
I hope you've read the TOS.
We're a small family here.
We treat each other with respect and love, as Jesus taught. No matter which denomination a person believes to be correct.
 
wondering said:
Are you going to reply to the above?

Later.
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there are many, many more I could post, but these should suffice.

[Rom 9:11, 15-16 KJV]
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) ...
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
 
Grace and Mercy? From what? Colossians 2:9-15 tells us of the ultimate Grace, which is the cutting away of the Sinful Nature by Christ. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, more Gracious than that. The point of the Bible is to Redeem the Holy Elect from the Spiritual Curse that corrupts the Nature of a human. We have all become corrupted by the Sinful Nature, and it is the Work of Christ alone that Redeems us from such an evil Nature, only to be replaced by the Divine Nature.

The above is the essence of the Gospel, yet extremely few are aware of it . . . for they rebel against the idea and incredibly Holy Word, Circumcision.

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

When will "we" wake up from our slumber and accept the Word of God instead of blatantly ignoring it?
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
Really? Christians should place their Faith into blood?
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Yes. Christians should place their faith into blood. Specifically, the blood of Jesus, our atoning sacrifice. You can see here that faith in Jesus is synonymous with faith in his blood for the atonement of sin:

Romans 3:23-26
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

25God presented Him as the atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood, in order to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had passed over the sins committed beforehand. 26He did this to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and to justify the one who has faith in Jesus.


That's what it means to have faith in Jesus. You're having faith in his blood to atone for your sins. A person is justified and saved when they believe that the blood of Christ is the sacrifice for sin through which they are forgiven and reconciled to God. That's the good news of the gospel.


Acts 13:32-39
32And now we proclaim to you the good news: What God promised our fathers 33He has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus.

38T...through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.
 
rogerg said:
Huh? As John McEnroe would say "you can't be serious"

We can do nothing to become saved. Those who become saved, are saved only because God has chosen them
for salvation - it is a complete gift - that is what makes is grace and not works.
Click to expand...
Once again.
Your opinion.
Where is the scripture that supports your belief system?
 
2nd Timothy Group said:
Grace and Mercy? From what? Colossians 2:9-15 tells us of the ultimate Grace, which is the cutting away of the Sinful Nature by Christ. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, more Gracious than that. The point of the Bible is to Redeem the Holy Elect from the Spiritual Curse that corrupts the Nature of a human. We have all become corrupted by the Sinful Nature, and it is the Work of Christ alone that Redeems us from such an evil Nature, only to be replaced by the Divine Nature.

The above is the essence of the Gospel, yet extremely few are aware of it . . . for they rebel against the idea and incredibly Holy Word, Circumcision.

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

When will "we" wake up from our slumber and accept the Word of God instead of blatantly ignoring it?
Click to expand...
Guess you've never heard of John Wesley.
Or Paul.
Or Peter.
Or James.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Yes. Christians should place their faith into blood. Specifically, the blood of Jesus, our atoning sacrifice. You can see here that faith in Jesus is synonymous with faith in his blood for the atonement of sin:

Romans 3:23-26
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

25God presented Him as the atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood, in order to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had passed over the sins committed beforehand. 26He did this to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and to justify the one who has faith in Jesus.


That's what it means to have faith in Jesus. You're having faith in his blood to atone for your sins. A person is justified and saved when they believe that the blood of Christ is the sacrifice for sin through which they are forgiven and reconciled to God. That's the good news of the gospel.


Acts 13:32-39
32And now we proclaim to you the good news: What God promised our fathers 33He has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus.

38T...through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.
Click to expand...

I hear what your'e saying, but I don't put my faith into the blood of Jesus Christ. Rather, I put my Faith into Christ Jesus who shed His blood as the final sacrifice so that we might be made Right with God. Below is a different rendition of the NKJV which was quoted above:

Romans 3:25 NKJV - "whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed . . ."
 
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