No "sheweth" means to grant mercy not to show mercy "show us the way to salvation".
eleeō (Key)
1.to have mercy on
At this point, I'm pretty much done with you on this discussion.
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Is believing/faith a work ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
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No "sheweth" means to grant mercy not to show mercy "show us the way to salvation".
eleeō (Key)
1.to have mercy on
At this point, I'm pretty much done with you on this discussion.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
I know.
It's tough going.
You're not willing to put in the work...
Or
It just is impossible to go against simple verses.
Mercy...
Grant, show, give,
What's the difference?
Read those links.
Go where God's revelation takes you.
You are just so far off with your interpretation that further dialogue would just
be an exercise in futility
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
OK Roger
But always remember that it might not be me that is off in my interpretation.
Would you care to ponder why calvinism shows up in about 1,500AD and not before?
Yes, it's you, and no I don't - I don't care about Calvinism - I read the Bible alone
and know what it says.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
If you believe God predestines individuals to salvation, then you're calvinist in theology.
The NT does not support calvinism.
This is why it was not heard of before 1,500AD
Do you believe man has free will?
2nd Timothy Group
Member
I hear what you're saying, but the life of Saul / Paul tells us differently, as well as the followers of Jesus:
John 15:16 NKJV - "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."
Acts 9:11, 13, 15-16 NKJV - "So the Lord said to him, "Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for [one] called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. ... 13 Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. ... 15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 "For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name's sake."
These two examples are reflective of much Scripture in terms of receiving Salvation. Such as:
Exodus 33:19 NKJV - "Then He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
These things said, I can understand why you hold the position that you do. I totally get it.
Have a great day!
2nd Timothy Group
Member
This is impossible, for Circumcision of the Heart was taking place well before the Day of Christ. If not, the Old Testament Saints could not have written and sung about their Salvation. Jesus wasn't quite alive as of yet.
Ephesians 4:5-6 NLT - "There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father, who is over all and in all and living through all."
The Old Testament path to Salvation is exactly the same as it is in the New Testament. Therefore, it is imperative that we study the Old Testament Saints to figure these things out.
journeymanisnothing
Member
And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee? Lk.22:64
Can you imagine doing this to God? But that's what happened to God. And instead of bringing the judgement of the law against the vile sinners who abused him, God endured this agony, giving them time to repent. This is why Calvanism isn'true.
Can you imagine doing this to God? But that's what happened to God. And instead of bringing the judgement of the law against the vile sinners who abused him, God endured this agony, giving them time to repent. This is why Calvanism isn'true.
You have it the wrong way round.
Faith, which is a conviction that cannot be seen (Hebrews 11:1) is neither a noun or an object.
It is my invisible faith or conviction that causes me to follow the path (noun) or climb a ladder (an earthly illustration) to the object of my faith.
.
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Jethro Bodine
Member
It is possible to know that Jesus is the way, and at the same time choose to not take that way. In Christianity 'believing' doesn't just mean you know and are convicted by the Holy Spirit that Jesus' blood is the acceptable sacrifice for sin that God wants. It means you have actually placed your trust in that sacrifice, relying on it to save you from the wrath of God.
The demons know that Jesus is the Holy One of God (Mark 1:24). That doesn't save them. They must also believe in Him to be saved. Obviously, we know they aren't doing that. They only know that He is the Holy One of God. So I think this illustrates well the truth I am sharing.
In the following passage, Peter shows us this distinction between knowing that Jesus is who he really is and actually believing in him.
John 6:68-69
68Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that You are the Holy One of God.f”
Well, that's the great debate that we are not permitted to discuss here. I just know there is a difference between just knowing that Jesus is who he actually is, and actually trusting in him to salvation. That we can discuss.
Not if born-again: true faith in Christ is a fruit of the Spirit given to those chosen when/from becoming born-again.
Observe the "kept by the power of God through faith". In other words, God Himself keeps those chosen
to salvation through their faith. This means that, since it is God who keeps one's faith, it cannot be lost.
[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Salvation was never a possibility to the demons. Christ was the kinsman redeemer only for man, not universally.
Wait... doesn't that verse tell us their knowledge was in support of/from their belief? To confirm your position
the verse would have to instead say something like" we believe but don't know that you are the Holy one
of God". Sounds to me like it actually supports my position, doesn't it? That their faith and believing were
hand-in-glove.
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brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Rogerg
Amen and Im glad you stated "This means that, snce it is God who keeps one's faith, it cannot be lost"
Because our faith depends upon the Power of God working effectually in us, thats why Jesus prayed for peter Lk 22:32
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. The believer and their faith are being kept by the Power of God
Yes restricted to the seed of Abraham, Spiritual Seed Heb 2:16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
For, as we all know, He (Christ) does not take hold of [the fallen] angels [to give them a helping hand], but He does take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [extending to them His hand of deliverance].AMP
This means that, since it is God who keeps one's faith, it cannot be lost.
Amen and Im glad you stated "This means that, snce it is God who keeps one's faith, it cannot be lost"
Because our faith depends upon the Power of God working effectually in us, thats why Jesus prayed for peter Lk 22:32
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. The believer and their faith are being kept by the Power of God
Yes restricted to the seed of Abraham, Spiritual Seed Heb 2:16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
For, as we all know, He (Christ) does not take hold of [the fallen] angels [to give them a helping hand], but He does take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [extending to them His hand of deliverance].AMP
This means that, since it is God who keeps one's faith, it cannot be lost.
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Jethro Bodine
Member
My response was talking about unsaved people. It is forbidden to talk about that in the context of saved people. So I was not talking about that.
Faith is the conviction that the gospel really is true. And it comes to the unsaved through the hearing of the gospel. Believing is retaining the word of the gospel about Jesus that you heard and trusting in it, relying on the blood of Christ to protect you from the judgment and wrath of God. Lot's of people know the gospel is true, because God told them it's true. That doesn't save anybody. As I showed from the scriptures, even demons know Christ is the Holy One of God! Few people believe what God has shown them to be true about Jesus. Only those people who know and believe (trust) in the gospel are justified and born again through that believing.
Jethro Bodine
Member
No, it says they know that Jesus is the Holy One of God. It says nothing about them believing in what they know to be true about Jesus. Obviously, their knowledge does not save them. What they have not done is taken what they know to be true about Jesus inside of them in a believing...a trusting in Jesus. Knowledge by itself is not enough to be at peace with God in salvation. You must believe what God has shown you is true about Jesus through the message of the gospel in order to be justified and born again.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Eternal security is an integral part of calvinism.
It would be the P.
Perseverance of the saints.
This can be discussed here or on other threads as long as the TOS rules are followed, mainly civility.
Again, I'm not sure I follow your post entirely, but in any event, they were consistent in both --
their believing and their knowledge.
And, by the way, the verse does tell us that they both believed and knew:
"John 6:68-69
68Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that You are the Holy One of God.f”"
The distinction you raise seems illogical, manufactured and inappropriate. That kind of rational can be incorrectly applied to many verses, maybe all verses should one try hard enough. If anyone truly believes, they will, and must, come to true knowledge, because it is God who will make it so. Having the first, then the second must follow.
However, the faith of an individual is not what brings salvation to them. Faith comes from being saved; the knowledge (of salvation) is by remission of their sins. Otherwise, neither can happen. Observe the
"give knowledge of salvation ..... by the remission of their sins". In other words, sins have to first be forgiven before
a true knowledge of salvation is obtained.
[Luk 1:77 KJV]
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
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Jethro Bodine
Member
The word 'faith' in Hebrews 11:1 is a noun. You can verify that here.
Hebrews 11 :: King James Version (KJV)
Hebrews 11 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
www.blueletterbible.org
Just click on the parse button next to the word 'faith' in that verse.
You didn't read what I posted about demons and salvation?
Look, I'm not trying to be rude here, but to be honest, if you're not going to read and think about what I post,
then please let me know and we can end the discussion now as it will be a lot easier on the both of us.
The ability to hear and to have faith in the gospel comes only from being saved.
[2Th 2:13 KJV]
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
[1Pe 1:5 KJV]
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Jethro Bodine
Member
That comprehension of things spiritual, which in this case is the way of salvation through Jesus, comes with the preaching of the word. You don't have to be born again to hear the Holy Spirit. You just need to hear the Holy Spirit! And He speaks when God calls unsaved people to the gospel through the preaching of the gospel.
1 John 5:10
10Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony within him; whoever does not believe God has made Him out to be a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given about His Son.
You can see that everyone hears the testimony of the Holy Spirit. Some believe it, cherishing it and retaining it in their heart, while others reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit, in effect calling the Holy Spirit a liar. You have to understand what is being testified to in order to be guilty of being a liar when you reject it.