Is believing/faith a work ?

[2nd Timothy Group]

I'm curious about one of my posts being deleted, as I received a notification of such an action. Was it because I did something wrong?

Thank you to whoever can answer my question. I've never seen this before at any other forum.

Thanks for answering my question Christian brothers and sisters!

 

[brightfame52]

Acts 16:30-32

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

What the answer the jailer received simply shows is, the saved believe. He was not told to ‘Believe, and then you will be saved or get saved’. He was not told that his act of believing is what his salvation is reliant upon. He was merely told that the saved believe, and the rest of Scripture shows that this believing is a gift from God, and not something which can be self-induced by man. Salvation does not wait upon your believing, but on the grace of God. All a man can be told is believe and you will be saved. However, far from implying that salvation is conditioned on a man’s believing, all these words are saying is that only the man who believes will be saved. The man who has eternal life is the man who believes. The gift of eternal life is present only in the man who believes. The gift comes first, then the believing. Salvation is not by works, it is not by your belief, it is by the grace of God through the gift of faith. Grace gives faith to the man who has been chosen by God to believe. Believing is not a ‘Do this and you will then be/get saved’ proposition, for believing is a gift from God to the one He has chosen to save. Faith is given before belief, so that one will believe. One cannot savingly believe before grace gives the gift of faith. One cannot believe without the gift of faith being given first, just as one cannot be saved without grace. https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone-22

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Acts 16:30-32

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

But shouldn't they have said, "you are already saved"?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Acts 16:30-32

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Why would they tell them to do that which you say is a work of self righteousness?

 

[brightfame52]

But shouldn't they have said, "you are already saved"?

No, because believing is the evidence, so what they said was appropriate. If he believed after they spake the word of Christ to him, which they did Vs 32

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

If he believed after hearing the word, then that was evidence he was already saved. One has to be saved in order to hear and believe the word of the Lord.

 

[brightfame52]

Why would they tell them to do that which you say is a work of self righteousness?

I just explained, for believing is one of the first things a person does as a result of having been saved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I just explained, for believing is one of the first things a person does as a result of having been saved.

You are not addressing the issue here. They asked what they must do to be saved. They were told, 'believe'. You're ignoring the fact that they are not saved yet and are inquiring as unbelievers, not believers. You're saying they told them to do what only saved people can do. You don't seem to realize that in your theology the answer to the question, "what must I do to be saved" is "nothing, do nothing". Because if you tell an unbeliever to believe you are telling them to do what you have said is a work of the works gospel that can not save.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

One has to be saved in order to hear and believe the word of the Lord.

Hebrews 6:4-6 defies that theology. I mean it does if it's talking about unsaved people who have been enlightened (completely contrary to your theology). But if it's talking about saved people then your theology is still in trouble because that means saved, regenerated, enlightened people can fall away and not be allowed to come back to repentance. Your theology loses on both counts. That's why I could never subscribe to Reformed theology.

 

[brightfame52]

Hebrews 6:4-6 defies that theology. I mean it does if it's talking about unsaved people who have been enlightened (completely contrary to your theology). But if it's talking about saved people then your theology is still in trouble because that means saved, regenerated, enlightened people can fall away and not be allowed to come back to repentance. Your theology loses on both counts. That's why I could never subscribe to Reformed theology.

I already just explained to you what I understand, and you obviously didnt understand it, so Im moving on.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I already just explained to you what I understand, and you obviously didnt understand it, so Im moving on.

And you obviously do not see how Hebrews 6:4-6 shatters Reformed theology. Apparently, you're just not getting the argument. But it is a solid and valid argument. Roger deflects it by claiming the thing that is impossible in that passage is that the enlightened can not fall away, rather than what it plainly says, that the enlightened who fall away are not permitted to come back to repentance. Being brought back to repentance is what is impossible in the passage. Which, of course, destroys the reformed belief that saved, born again enlightened people can not fall away.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

And you obviously do not see how Hebrews 6:4-6 shatters Reformed theology. Apparently, you're just not getting the argument. But it is a solid and valid argument. Roger deflects it by claiming the thing that is impossible in that passage is that the enlightened can not fall away, rather than what it plainly says, that the enlightened who fall away are not permitted to come back to repentance. Being brought back to repentance is what is impossible in the passage. Which, of course, destroys the reformed belief that saved, born again enlightened people can not fall away.

Do you believe that you can fall away?

 

[brightfame52]

And you obviously do not see how Hebrews 6:4-6 shatters Reformed theology. Apparently, you're just not getting the argument. But it is a solid and valid argument. Roger deflects it by claiming the thing that is impossible in that passage is that the enlightened can not fall away, rather than what it plainly says, that the enlightened who fall away are not permitted to come back to repentance. Being brought back to repentance is what is impossible in the passage. Which, of course, destroys the reformed belief that saved, born again enlightened people can not fall away.

Im threw explaining things to you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you believe that you can fall away?

Me personally? I don't know. I just keep the attitude Paul tells us to keep about that:

Romans 11:20-22
20That is correct: They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly notg spare you either.

22Take notice, therefore, of the kindness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.


There's no room for arrogance when it comes to this matter of believers standing by faith potentially falling away into unbelief.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Me personally? I don't know.

It must be rough for you to accept that even though you have been given the Mind of Christ, you remain corrupt enough to walk away and live for the Devil. I can't imagine that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It must be rough for you to accept that even though you have been given the Mind of Christ, you remain corrupt enough to walk away and live for the Devil. I can't imagine that.

I said I don't know if I'd fall away. Somehow you heard that as I said I could? Why?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I said I don't know if I'd fall away. Somehow you heard that as I said I could? Why?

Oh, I'm sorry. If you can walk away, then you must suffer from not having assurance. Does that ever produce anxiety at all?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Oh, I'm sorry. If you can walk away, then you must suffer from not having assurance. Does that ever produce anxiety at all?

No, I don't suffer from not having assurance. I have assurance. Don't you know how, Biblically, one has assurance? It doesn't come from not being able to not believe anymore.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

No, I don't suffer from not having assurance. I have assurance. Don't you know how, Biblically, one has assurance? It doesn't come from not being able to not believe anymore.

Oh my, yes. I believe that I fully understand why and how a person can have 100% assurance. If I were to explain it, however, one would have to have eyes to see and ears to hear.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Oh my, yes. I believe that I fully understand why and how a person can have 100% assurance. If I were to explain it, however, one would have to have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Just post the scriptures, please.
I'm not convinced you even know what assurance actually means.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Just post the scriptures, please.
I'm not convinced you even know what assurance actually means.

I'll give you one set of remarkable Scriptures:

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."