Is Corporate Worship Important or Necessary?

[Elijah674]

Hi again. It is not as 'i' think, but what God Commands. Rev. 18:4 is very clear??

Rev.18
[1] And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
(outpouring of the Holy Spirit in latter Rain! Acts 3:19's End Time)

[2] And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
(Matt. 25 has the MIDNIGHT CRY)

[3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
(surely these are non other than main line ex/protestants)
[4] And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Surely God is DOCUMENTING & Warning that there are HIS SINCERE ones in the wrong place! But ask yourself, just [IF] Christ was there inside of these church's, why MUST they leave.. or else??? And you just might find the answer in Josh. 7:12's last part of the verse?

And about Matt. 25??? This is Christ's Virgin Church (as in doctrines) it says, right? And they were ALL SLEEPING with this MIDNIGHT CRY that you are hearing 'me' thinks?? But my question questions your question, which 'i' see and perhaps you miss?? And that is verse 6.. 'GO YE OUT' TO MEET HIM.' And even then for all of these others, 'THE DOOR WAS SHUT.' ibide. 10

And yes, it is a parable. Yet, for me, 'the message' has the same outcome as the pre/flood ones & the 120 years of Striving of the Holy Spirit had to them with their Ark door being closed. Compare Matt. 23:38)

--Elijah

We have all kind of replies! Yet, is just feeling good or excitement + emotion proof of True Worship? Even with handshakes & hugs?? No one has mentioned the Lords Doctrines or Obedience to these!If you LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS Christ said! No one even is concerned with having the Holy Ghost?? Acts 5:32 And He is given ONLY to those who OBEY HIM. He INSPIRED! Whatever?

--Elijah

 

[handy]

I have spent so much time moving so much snow, that I'm waayyy behind on this thread.

At any rate, as to the Holy Spirit being grieved at the way...say my church...is operating, I don't think so. I think that the Spirit is quite active and moving within our church, and we are very dependent upon the Spirit.

Forgive me, but I think the Church is quite guilty of playing favorites. Even the early church had it's squabbles over which one was best ("I am of Paul...well I am of Apollos, so there!" paraphrased a bit there.)

The truth is, even in it's fractured state, the Holy Spirit still resides within the Church. Local congregations may or may not grieve the Spirit, I have indeed seen this happen. Part of my personal testimony is that the church I was baptized in as a new believer is no more, it's lampstand has been removed. I believe that the denomination that I recently came out of is well on it's way to being fully apostate.

But, this doesn't mean that all local churches everywhere are in danger of this. My experience with the local churches are that they are still doing a pretty good job of equipping the saints. Too many times, someone might think, "well that church doesn't speak in tongues" or "well, that church uses a 300 year old catechism" and makes judgments based upon these things, as if they are what truly defines what is a church. But, local churches, those assemblies of believers who desire to worship God together, to learn from the Scriptures together, to equip one another and sharpen one another, still make up the Church, the Body. Our differences are important, we shouldn't ignore them, but we shouldn't stand back and accuse an entire local assembly or even an entire denomination and say, "God is no longer with you!" unless we have strong scriptural support for making such an accusation.

However, my main thoughts on whether or not we should abandon assembling with each other for the privilege (and I agree, it most certainly is a privilege) of worshiping with one another, is that the Bible tells us that we ought not forsake it, nor should we forsake our communion with one another.

We need to seek out others for corporate worship. If some are more happy or feel that a small "home" style church is best, as long as the church worships the One true God, and holds to the Scriptures, OK. Others, for better or for worse (marriage sentiments are so applicable) are led to stay with their local congregation or denomination, in spite of problems and that's OK too.

I believe there will come a time when we cannot worship together corporately, at least not out in the open. When that time comes, then I'll follow the Lord's leading. As of now though, the Lord has led my family to a most excellent church with strong preaching, a loving congregation, sweet communion, and which is equipping both my husband and I, and our children, and I am blessed beyond measure in it.

I don't see the example of "the guru on the hill" in the Scriptures. I don't see where we are to withdraw from each other, be loners, be one voice crying in the wilderness. That might have been the job of the prophets and of John, but we are the Church and we are called to be unified.

 

[Chris]

I have spent so much time moving so much snow, that I'm waayyy behind on this thread.

At any rate, as to the Holy Spirit being grieved at the way...say my church...is operating, I don't think so. I think that the Spirit is quite active and moving within our church, and we are very dependent upon the Spirit.

Forgive me, but I think the Church is quite guilty of playing favorites. Even the early church had it's squabbles over which one was best ("I am of Paul...well I am of Apollos, so there!" paraphrased a bit there.)

The truth is, even in it's fractured state, the Holy Spirit still resides within the Church. Local congregations may or may not grieve the Spirit, I have indeed seen this happen. Part of my personal testimony is that the church I was baptized in as a new believer is no more, it's lampstand has been removed. I believe that the denomination that I recently came out of is well on it's way to being fully apostate.

But, this doesn't mean that all local churches everywhere are in danger of this. My experience with the local churches are that they are still doing a pretty good job of equipping the saints. Too many times, someone might think, "well that church doesn't speak in tongues" or "well, that church uses a 300 year old catechism" and makes judgments based upon these things, as if they are what truly defines what is a church. But, local churches, those assemblies of believers who desire to worship God together, to learn from the Scriptures together, to equip one another and sharpen one another, still make up the Church, the Body. Our differences are important, we shouldn't ignore them, but we shouldn't stand back and accuse an entire local assembly or even an entire denomination and say, "God is no longer with you!" unless we have strong scriptural support for making such an accusation.

However, my main thoughts on whether or not we should abandon assembling with each other for the privilege (and I agree, it most certainly is a privilege) of worshiping with one another, is that the Bible tells us that we ought not forsake it, nor should we forsake our communion with one another.

We need to seek out others for corporate worship. If some are more happy or feel that a small "home" style church is best, as long as the church worships the One true God, and holds to the Scriptures, OK. Others, for better or for worse (marriage sentiments are so applicable) are led to stay with their local congregation or denomination, in spite of problems and that's OK too.

I believe there will come a time when we cannot worship together corporately, at least not out in the open. When that time comes, then I'll follow the Lord's leading. As of now though, the Lord has led my family to a most excellent church with strong preaching, a loving congregation, sweet communion, and which is equipping both my husband and I, and our children, and I am blessed beyond measure in it.

I don't see the example of "the guru on the hill" in the Scriptures. I don't see where we are to withdraw from each other, be loners, be one voice crying in the wilderness. That might have been the job of the prophets and of John, but we are the Church and we are called to be unified.

you know whats funny the churches have been going along for hundreds of yearsI think God has it under control, it seems to have flourished just fine. I often wonder if over the last 1800 years people in churches have been thinking to themselves " I think this church has got it wrong" i would like to believe being an eternal optomist that worry about the churches or not they are going to prosper even more because God drives it.

 

[Strangelove]

Hey Guys!

I been wrapped up in legal documents over our house purchase which is coming to a successful conclusion in the next few days. Just wanted to check in and let you all know how much I'm missing assembling with you guys. I should have time to go over all you're comments maybe tomorrow or the next day and then get back to normal fellowship and assembling here at this great meeting place online in the next coupla days.

I don't think I've been this long not assembling with fellow believers since I joined the forum so, it's hurtin' pretty bad but family needs must come first at the moment.

Check in with you lot tomorra' prolly. Have fun assembling together!

Laters,

Docster.

 

[stovebolts]

Well Doc, it certainly hasn't been the same around here without ya ;)

We love ya brother.

 

[Alabaster]

This isn't even close to 'assembling'...

 

[Nick]

Hey Guys!

I been wrapped up in legal documents over our house purchase which is coming to a successful conclusion in the next few days. Just wanted to check in and let you all know how much I'm missing assembling with you guys. I should have time to go over all you're comments maybe tomorrow or the next day and then get back to normal fellowship and assembling here at this great meeting place online in the next coupla days.

I don't think I've been this long not assembling with fellow believers since I joined the forum so, it's hurtin' pretty bad but family needs must come first at the moment.

Check in with you lot tomorra' prolly. Have fun assembling together!

Laters,

Docster.

Not to worry, Doc. Family should come first. I pray that all goes well.

 

[pjt]

Re: What is your church like?

I have a very wise mentor and I talk to her every single day thanks.

I'll write letters if the net goes down. And if thats not possible then I have Christ and the Word of God. No drama.

Do you think it is wise for a married man to have a female mentor whom you contact with every day? Is your wife aware of this mentor and how frequently you contact with this mentor?

 

[pjt]

Re: What is your church like?

I've never been to church in my life. Pre or post Salvation.

Have you been baptized?
Also since it was brought up their your wife is Vietnamese and you wrote in another post that you live in SE Asia, I wonder if this topic is not merely about church but about practicality. I mean do you live in Vietnam? If he lives in Vietnam, I think Christianity is illegal there so it may not be a simple thing to just get up and go to church plus finding a really good Bible church that teaches in his language only adds to the problem. If that is the case, I could see how this forum could become his church.

 

[Nick]

Re: What is your church like?

Have you been baptized?
Also since it was brought up their your wife is Vietnamese and you wrote in another post that you live in SE Asia, I wonder if this topic is not merely about church but about practicality. I mean do you live in Vietnam? If he lives in Vietnam, I think Christianity is illegal there so it may not be a simple thing to just get up and go to church plus finding a really good Bible church that teaches in his language only adds to the problem. If that is the case, I could see how this forum could become his church.

If he hasn't been in a church then it is very unlikely that he be baptised. That's not really a concern though, since in itself, baptism (water) does nothing.
However, I would be interested to see Strangelove's response to some of my posts, and the reason he doesn't go to church.

BTW, I would like to keep the need and role of baptism out of this discussion please.

 

[pjt]

Re: What is your church like?

If he hasn't been in a church then it is very unlikely that he be baptised. That's not really a concern though, since in itself, baptism (water) does nothing.
However, I would be interested to see Strangelove's response to some of my posts, and the reason he doesn't go to church.

BTW, I would like to keep the need and role of baptism out of this discussion please.

Why is the subject of baptism taboo when it is in the Bible and it clearly ties in with this subject since baptism is usually done in the church? However, I do believe he could be baptized outside the church since many of the baptisms in the NT were outside the church. I think if he wants to answer this question, he should, but if he does not, he can simply ignore it.

 

[Mike]

Re: What is your church like?

Why is the subject of baptism taboo when it is in the Bible and it clearly ties in with this subject since baptism is usually done in the church? However, I do believe he could be baptized outside the church since many of the baptisms in the NT were outside the church. I think if he wants to answer this question, he should, but if he does not, he can simply ignore it.

Perhaps Nick was just trying to keep on the topic of the importance of corporate worship. That's the sort of thing that will easily send the discussion far from the point, and there are other threads dedicated to baptism. Of course, baptism is not "taboo" to talk about on a Christian forum.

 

[pjt]

Re: What is your church like?

Perhaps Nick was just trying to keep on the topic of the importance of corporate worship. That's the sort of thing that will easily send the discussion far from the point, and there are other threads dedicated to baptism. Of course, baptism is not "taboo" to talk about on a Christian forum.

But don`t you feel that baptism is a form of corporate worship? Of course, it can be private, but usually it is public as a public testimony of what God has done in our lives. It is something that brings joy to the body of Christ to see and experience with the new Believer, and it can be a witness to the unbeliever. I mean I generally cry every time I see someone baptized so it is a form of corporate worship for me because I am rejoicing with the individual as they take this step. I see it as a way the body of Christ glorifies God together, thus it is a form of corporate worship. I did not ask the question thinking of going into a debate. I asked it purely out of curiosity because when I read strangelove`s post about never attending church, that was just the first thing that popped in my mind. Others I suppose the first thing that pops in their minds is accountability, authority, genuineness, Bible study, etc. but call me strange if you want to but the first thing that popped in my mind was baptism. My question was sincerely innocent. It was not designed to provoke an argument. And I am still curious about his answer. I mean he could have had a group of Believers to all go to a river and someone baptized him.

 

[Nick]

Why is the subject of baptism taboo when it is in the Bible and it clearly ties in with this subject since baptism is usually done in the church? However, I do believe he could be baptized outside the church since many of the baptisms in the NT were outside the church. I think if he wants to answer this question, he should, but if he does not, he can simply ignore it.

But don`t you feel that baptism is a form of corporate worship? Of course, it can be private, but usually it is public as a public testimony of what God has done in our lives. It is something that brings joy to the body of Christ to see and experience with the new Believer, and it can be a witness to the unbeliever. I mean I generally cry every time I see someone baptized so it is a form of corporate worship for me because I am rejoicing with the individual as they take this step. I see it as a way the body of Christ glorifies God together, thus it is a form of corporate worship. I did not ask the question thinking of going into a debate. I asked it purely out of curiosity because when I read strangelove`s post about never attending church, that was just the first thing that popped in my mind. Others I suppose the first thing that pops in their minds is accountability, authority, genuineness, Bible study, etc. but call me strange if you want to but the first thing that popped in my mind was baptism. My question was sincerely innocent. It was not designed to provoke an argument. And I am still curious about his answer. I mean he could have had a group of Believers to all go to a river and someone baptized him.

Mike's assumption is correct. The discussion of baptism is by no means taboo, in fact we have had many many threads on baptism. However, debates about baptism are not relevant to this thread. I was simply jumping in before such a debate started, as they can be very heated and quickly derail a thread.

I assumed your intent was an innocent quesiton, and by all means Strangelove can answer. However I was trying to prevent this thread being hijacked by the discussion of baptism.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

Okey dokey where were we? I think I was in the middle of setting Alabaster straight on his wonky social christian pre-requisites.

Opting out of the safety and security that God provides for His people--namely the church, is unwise and that attitude needs correction. Those who refuse correction opt out! It's a circular thing.

God's safety net is Christ Jesus. You can attempty to correct all you like but until you provide scripture that backs up you're erroneous claims that we need to be under the authority of a pastor and gathered together face to face under a church building then I'll stick to my simple faith and my Bible.......and meeting brethren in the forums.

God doesn't want anyone opting out. He has provided for us a home base, the church. Spurning it and even denigrating it reveals an attitude problem. It's pretty simple.

Protecting and encouraging false teachers and having a blind confidence in the strength of the physical church system reveals a spurning of the commandments to test the spirits and beware of false prophets. The home base is Christ and faith in Him and His finished work on the cross. Now thats simple.

You don't know what you are saying. I will leave you to your false beliefs.

Lack of a good church affiliation does affect one's walk with Christ, for one is disobedient and acting independently.

I don't think you have the right or any expertise to do any writing on the cell church, as you yourself have said that you have never attended a church.

Stick to what you know first-hand.

Um.......nah! I think I will write about the cell church if its all the same to you. And I have a particular cell church in mind that I will do an in depth expose on.

 

[Strangelove]

you know strange love if you feel its your calling not to attend church that is cool, we all have different paths. I forget that myself sometimes that we are all different in our journey but similar in our beliefs. God will lead you where he wants you to go. We are not in control unless we separate from god. As long as we seek his will it will all be good. Dont stress about church, there might come a day it wil be the right time for you to go.


bless ya

LOVE & LIGHT

Thanks Chris.

Spoken like a true Brother in Christ. God's speed to you sir.

I would be blessed indeed if at some point God led me to a Biblical church where the pastor is a servant to the flock and the simple Gospel message is preached long and loud.

Maybe in the tribulation the churches will get back to basics?

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

You're not really in a good position here.
Here we have Strangelove criticising the church, the way it is run and all the problems within church. This same Strangelove has never been inside a church in his entire life.

I don't need to go to a thrash metal concert to know its not my scene mate.

 

[Strangelove]

That's for sure! It lacks all the benefits of a real good church!

I agree there are some benefits if there was a church that is godly and simple and in truth with a humble leader.

But there are too many negative aspects in many modern churches, especially the bigger ones that makes them a non-viable option.

Militant social agendas and peer pressure group think being the main offenders.

 

[Nick]

Re: What is your church like?

I don't need to go to a thrash metal concert to know its not my scene mate.

So you believe gossip instead of trying out church for yourself? You do not have any experience in church, so how do you know that it's not for you? It's not the same as a thrash metal concert senario.

 

[Strangelove]

It is never God's calling to move out of church. Every believer needs to be planted by God somewhere where he will grow and flourish and be fruitful. God is not going to call someone out of the fertile places where He lives and moves among His people.

So now God moving amongst His people is dependent on specific locations and /or buildings?

18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The Lord seems to disagree.​