Is Corporate Worship Important or Necessary?

[pjt]

Re: What is your church like?

She's old enough to be my mother. Lolz.

My wifes more jealous of Jesus.

Well, this is just a thought but age doesn`t mean a thing when it comes to women. For example, the world is filled with mother-in-law/daughter-in-law struggles. The wife obviously has nothing to fear about her husband falling romantically in love with his mom, but the tension between these 2 women is often very real because they both have a love and interest in the same man. The love and interest is very different but if the wife feels the mom is getting priority or more respect or esteem than she is then problems arise. This is why the Bible say the MAN is to leave him mother and father and cleave to his wife. You can even see this with children. If a man gives more attention to his daughter than his wife, the wife sometimes resents it. So it is not always about romance or age. A woman just likes to feel she is the #1 woman in his life. Now men don`t always see it that way which esculates the problem. You can take or leave my words as you wish but I encourage you to be sensitive to your wife when it comes to other women. In fact, I probably would encourage you to seek a male mentor, but that is just my opinion!

 

[Alabaster]

Re: What is your church like?

I've been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Christianity isn't illegal here. There are two Catholic churches in my town.

There are Christians in your town. Find them. Failing that, disciple some.

Matthew 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[pjt]

Re: What is your church like?

I've been baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Christianity isn't illegal here. There are two Catholic churches in my town.

Jason thinks you are in Bangkok. If that is correct then make contact for you and your wife with the link I am giving. This is Bible Study Fellowship and my husband is involved with this. They will have English, Thai, and probably other language groups as well. Here is the BSF link Welcome to BSF (Bible Study Fellowship) so you can familiar yourself with what they are but basically it is segrageted by gender and you get study material each week. Then once a week you meet with your assigned group and discuss the Bible material you were given. I think you would really enjoy this because you won`t have to worry about someone exercising authority over you and you have an equal voice with others in your group. Plus you pray and encourage one another as Believers. Women's Evening ClassesBANGKOK THAILAND EWT7:10Calvary Baptist Church
88 Sukhumvit Soi 2 Rd
Bangkok
Contact
Class
Administrator Men's Evening ClassesBANGKOK THAILAND EMM7:00Saphan Luang Chinese Church
586 Rama 4 Rd., Bangrak
Bangkok THAILAND 10500
Contact
Class
Administrator
You could also visit any of these churches just to get your own impression. Calvary Baptist Church - Bangkok, Thailand
International Church of Bangkok
New Vision Baptist Church
Evangelical Church of Bangkok - Home

Anyway, even if you don`t visit the churches, I think you would really enjoy and benefit from BSF!!! Check it out and if you like it, stay if you don`t then no one will force you to return!!!

 

[Alabaster]

Re: What is your church like?

Jason thinks you are in Bangkok. If that is correct then make contact for you and your wife with the link I am giving. This is Bible Study Fellowship and my husband is involved with this. They will have English, Thai, and probably other language groups as well. Here is the BSF link Welcome to BSF (Bible Study Fellowship) so you can familiar yourself with what they are but basically it is segrageted by gender and you get study material each week. Then once a week you meet with your assigned group and discuss the Bible material you were given. I think you would really enjoy this because you won`t have to worry about someone exercising authority over you and you have an equal voice with others in your group. Plus you pray and encourage one another as Believers. Women's Evening ClassesBANGKOK THAILAND EWT7:10Calvary Baptist Church
88 Sukhumvit Soi 2 Rd
Bangkok
Contact
Class
Administrator Men's Evening ClassesBANGKOK THAILAND EMM7:00Saphan Luang Chinese Church
586 Rama 4 Rd., Bangrak
Bangkok THAILAND 10500
Contact
Class
Administrator
You could also visit any of these churches just to get your own impression. Calvary Baptist Church - Bangkok, Thailand
International Church of Bangkok
New Vision Baptist Church
Evangelical Church of Bangkok - Home

Anyway, even if you don`t visit the churches, I think you would really enjoy and benefit from BSF!!! Check it out and if you like it, stay if you don`t then no one will force you to return!!!

Amen! Let me add this also, of which I am familiar:

Thailand

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

Just as a side note, baptism is a command that we are to follow. It is not essential for salvation, but it is a command. those who separate from the Body of Christ in fellowship and ministry are bound to be disobedient in other areas as well. It is an independent spirit that drives them, and God wants them to submit to Him.

I think we're making progress here Duckie. At least your saying now that we need to submit to the authority of God and not your church and pastor.

Maybe your realising the disobediance of your pastor for claiming such authority over his flock?

 

[Strangelove]

You know, Doc, in this whole conversation, as well as in others with you, I had totally forgotten that you don't live in the States...Asia is it? I so apologize to you for forgetting this.

Naturally, when one is in a position of not being around Christian churches, then yes, it is quite understandable that one cannot assemble together.

Sheesh, do I feel dumb now!

Really, in situations like yours, the Internet is such a blessing. Since I live way out here in the "middle of nowhere, Idaho" there are plenty of times when we truly cannot get to church, and being able to "fellowship" on-line is great, especially since we can only afford going to Sunday worship. I'd love to go to the various bible studies our church has, but truly I can't. I don't believe on-line is a substitute for assembling together within a local church body, because there are things that happen in the local churches, (communion, worship) that don't happen on-line. But, when one is in a position like you are, when one really doesn't have a local church to be a part of...yes, these kinds of on-line fellowships are better than nothing.

Don't stress it Handy. Your a good Christian. You try to do your best and so do I in both our situations. Things will change further as you have said before. We need to be flexible, well rounded Christians in this day and age if we're gonna get away from the inevitable apostacy that is prophesized. We've seen it's started already in the biggest churches in the world.

Love Doc.

 

[Strangelove]

That is a typical rationalizing usage of that particular scripture passage by those who reject the assembly just shows that they do not understand scripture. that passage has nothing to do with the assembly. It has to do with power and authority in prayer.

God wants to plant us in a flourishing place, like springs of water, so that we will send down strong roots and grow straight and tall.

Take a look at this thread's OP:

http://www.christianforums.net/f17/why-do-we-need-local-church-32341/#post479300

Typical rationalization because its typically rational.

Huh? Nothing to do with getting together? Power and authority? You really are gung ho militant churchianity arn't you?

Doesn't look like anyones interested in your thread Duckie. Prolly coz the content doesn't have anything to do with the topic title.

 

[Strangelove]

When one considers the internet his church, he is not only associating with Christians, but with fringe people of the church who have abandoned the assembly as well, and those who have been removed from churches for their refusal to come under authority and refusal of correction, and also many, many wolves.

It isn't a safe place to receive good spiritual food and fellowship.

What are you doing here then if it's such a nutty place to be. You're a fringer yourself it seems as no one agree's with your notion that I'm condemned to hell for my absence from church.

"refusal to come under authority and refusal of correction"

I wonder if you would prefer you're church to have real cells where 'rebellious' people can be held under the (false) authority of the pastor and 'corrected'?

Are you still refusing the correction of Christs words that forbid church/pastor authority over the flock?

 

[Strangelove]

Don't fall for the line that in Asia there are no good churches. There are, and God knows where they are, and He can be trusted to lead a person there. He leads Christians in every nation to great places for fellowship---physically---even in China. The persecuted and illegal Church of Jesus Christ still finds a way to obey God there, in spite of the terrible threat of trouble and death.

Thats quite funny. God knows! Lolz.

He lead me to internet fellowship. I trust Jesus. Thats why I'm here. But anyway, seeing as you think I'm an unbeliever, how is God gonna lead me anywhere if I don't believe in Him?

How does He lead anyone to a church when being in a church is a pre-requisite in believeing in Him in the first place? Do you see how you're position makes no sense? It's a catch-22 Duckie.

SL is determined to NOT comply with God in this. His many reasons or excuses do not include his geographical location...at least in this particular thread.

Why would you think I want to comply with God if you say I'm an unbeliever?

Maybe it's you who are determined to enforce churchianity socialism on the brethren here.

 

[Strangelove]

doc the catholic church while i dont like them in all that they do would be a good place to start.

I'd rather not go somewhere with graven images of my Lord hanging from the walls and people practising necromancy.

Thanks all the same.

If it's RCC or internet fellowship.....I'll take the forums.

Plus...there would be zero fellowship as no-one speaks English there...so whats the point?

 

[Strangelove]

I do agree with this! You're right, there are too many on the fringe and too many who are wolves. One of the benefits of the local assembly, those folks that you sit down with face to face, is accountability to good doctrine and the ability to identify and correct errors.

There are wolves in churches too. You know this already. I have no trouble seprating the godly doctrine from the false on the forums. No problem at all. And I seem to be able to correct peoples errors and accept any error of my own fairly well. Pastors don't have authority over the flock. that is an error that you and others have made in this thread. I have corrected it. There doesn't seem to be any more argument about it. See.....we're chugging along nicely.

Doc, let me ask this: Have you searched out other believers where you live with the intention of at least creating a house church?

No I havn't. They all speak a different language apart from the few expats in town who spend most of their time sitting around drinking cheap whiskey and cavorting with hookers. Why waste time searching for 1 or 2 Christians here when I can jump online and assemble here with thousands with ease?

 

[Strangelove]

I was thinking about this today at church If you dont fellowship with other believers you might start to think you are wise in your own eyes. Talking to others in person can be a humbling experience particularly when you meet wise older godly people.

Thats why I came to the forums. I wanted to see what brethren thought about the faith. Communication is the important thing. I think communicating with Christians is important.......for both sides. God wants us to talk to eachother not just so we can learn but so we can teach too.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

There are Christians in your town. Find them. Failing that, disciple some.

Matthew 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

YES SIR!

Do you think you are a modern day apostle Duckie?

There are Christians on the internet. I've found them. And I'm mixing with them. I think as a new Christian in a Buddhist country I've done my job to the best of my ability.

 

[Strangelove]

Re: What is your church like?

Anyway, even if you don`t visit the churches, I think you would really enjoy and benefit from BSF!!! Check it out and if you like it, stay if you don`t then no one will force you to return!!!

Appreciate your effort pjt but I'm not in Thailand. If that organization was near me and had regular western participants I would probably give it a go. Like I say I've got nothing against people fellowshipping together in person. Why would I? I'm only saying it's not essential. Fellowshipping online is adequate in the absense of a good church.

Thanks anyway.

 

[Strangelove]

Found this on another thread:

Institutions? Jesus doesn't expect you to choose some sort of belief system or church or institution! He simply wants you to receive Him. He will come into your life and live with you and bless you.

Isn't this contradicting the bulk of what you are saying on this thread Duckie? :shocked!

 

[Strangelove]

Oooh look heres more:

Too many people are being tripped up by religiosity and the thinking that the institutional church is the be all and end all, especially the Catholic person, who holds his institution, the RCC as his god and sole authority.

I am too careful about that kind of thinking. Yes, God does lay out for us a kind of system of belief, but I am careful not to speak in those terms, for too many people are taken astray by legalism and religiosity and 'churchianity'.

All we need do is believe in Jesus Christ, read the word of God and follow Him in it. Simple.

Hey! Churchianity is my word! No fair!

 

[pjt]

Re: What is your church like?

Appreciate your effort pjt but I'm not in Thailand. If that organization was near me and had regular western participants I would probably give it a go. Like I say I've got nothing against people fellowshipping together in person. Why would I? I'm only saying it's not essential. Fellowshipping online is adequate in the absense of a good church.

Thanks anyway.

Perhaps you can look at the BSF link and see if there is something in your country and city. My husband really enjoys BSF. And I also live in Asia so I know finding a church is not as easy as people here think! For example, it takes my husband an hour 1 way to get to BSF and it used to take me 2 1/2-3 hours one way just to get to church. In America I could be very selective about the church I wanted, but in Asia the people in this forum would discover you either have to compromise your beliefs or lower your standards in a church. I have lowered my standards, but I won`t compromise core beliefs. Anyway, I encourage you not to give up looking!

 

[pjt]

To answer the question of corporate worship. Yes it`s importand & necessary. Here are my thoughts: We all agree that we are the church not a building. But after that there`s all sorts of opinions. So can a forum be a church?When you have a body of believers together, that constitutes a gathering or assembly which is the definition of ekklesia/church. However, I don`t think an online forum captures the true spirit of what God designed the church to be. I think God designed the church to be more personal where we can physically touch & appreciate each other.
What is the church? From my understanding the church is not just a universal whole of Believers. It is also individual, established groups of Believers. I could list many scriptures if needed to support this view. For each community of Believers gathering together they constitute a church. Now this forum could fall into the category of an assembly of Believers except for a few things in Acts 14:23 it speaks of elders being ordained “in every church†so the church is organized w/leaders. We also see in 2 Tim. there are bishops & deacons. So one could argue that the moderators of this forum constitute the elders, bishops & deacons but I think that would be a long shot since as far as I know they don`t have to go through the same rigorous screening that Timothy calls for. And even if they did, we couldn`t verify the screening results. But to give credit to Strangelove, in some churches we don`t set these standards either & because of the way the church is set up even if we have these standards we don`t really know the people to hold them to the standards. I mean, throughout the history of the Protestant church there have been preachers sleeping with the choir director or the deacon sleeping with the Sunday School teacher and no one knew it! Or throughout the history of the catholic church there have been priests molesting little children and monks and nuns mercilessly beating little children & no one knew. Why is that? It`s because the church is not being run like God designed it to be. It is more of a business than a fellowship of Believers therefore it is impersonal. People go to hear a sermon but don`t really know each other. In that regard a forum can be more personal b/c on a forum ppl sometimes share things they would never share with ppl in the physical church. In the physical church ppl often put on airs about being all fine & happy & part of the reason they do that is the church culture expects them to do that. Many churches are not designed to be places to truly get to know & love one another. But w/that aside, it is not an excuse to just throw out the church. We should strive to make the church what God planned for it to be.

So what more did God plan for the church to be? It is a place where Believers can settle disputes among each other with a likeminded Biblical framework rather than running to the pagen/secular courts that often rule with no consideration of God or His Word at all (Mat. 18:15-17 and 1 Cor. 6). In a forum where people are scattered all over the world we simply can`t do that. On the other hand, what churches are going to stick out their necks and do that? Not many. But if we run from the church, how can we get the church back on track?

Acts 2:46 it describes Believers “continuing daily with one accord in the temple and breaking bread from house to houseâ€. So obviously in a forum like this we can`t do that. In a physical gathering of Believers we can, but again how many churches(groups of Believers) are breaking bread together from house to house? How many are just gathering on Sunday and we have no idea where each other live? But the fact remains there is more potential to live out the way God designed things in the physical church than online.

Then there is Acts 2:43-45, Acts 4:32, Acts 5:1-11 A forum like this could never accomplish what these churches did. A physical group of Believers could accomplish it, but it is almost unheard of today. The closest thing I can think of would be a Jewish Kibbutz. But basically these Believers looked after each other so no one lacked and when Anaias and Sapphira held back, God killed them. In today`s church each is on their own basically. You can`t count on the person next to you in the pew to give a care other than to say `I`ll pray for you†which they may or may not do. God`s design for the church was a body of Believers committed to one another to help each other not only spiritually but also physically and practically with the daily things of life, for instance the older women are to help the younger women be good wives and mothers. You don`t always see that in the physical church but honestly you can only accomplish these things in the physical gathering of Believers. You can`t do it online. And you can`t materially help ppl from online because there are too many scammers claiming they are Christians needing help when they just want a quick easy buck!

Acts 11:22a forum can be a very effective tool in giving & exchanging tidings & pertinent information w/Believers. So the “forum church†gets a point here.

Rev. 2:7,11,17,29 Rev. 3:6 are interesting scriptures because we see the Holy Spirit speaks to the churches. We also see in Rev. there are angels assigned to specific churches. In Rev. 22:16 it says that Jesus sent His angel to John to testify of the things he saw to the churches, not individuals but the churches. So I believe God wants us to have a phy.group of believers for Him to sanctify (Eph. 5:23-33), assign an angel, & for the Holy Spirit to speak to.

Acts 20:17-38 we see Paul meeting w/the elders of the church & tells them what he has been doing for the church, “serving w/humilityâ€. Then he tells the elders the Holy Ghost has made them “overseers to feed the church of God which He hath purchased with His own bloodâ€. We just cannot have “overseers†in a forum like this in the very personal sense that God desires.

1 Cor. 4:17 the church is a place for teaching. I would say a forum is more of a place of debating and exchanging ideas rather than sitting & listening to teaching.

1 Cor. 10:32 & 11:22 are cautions that we should give no offense or despise the church of God. So I think we have to be careful in disregarding the church. Of course, there are many problems in the today`s churches some problems are so big that we absolutely should have no fellowship w/them, but others have problems that we should strive to work w/the church for a solution. These are our brothers & sisters & we need to stand by them not abandon them. God wants us to work together as a body of Believers.

1 Cor. 12:28 it speaks of God setting up positions in the church but as Strangelove noted it is Christ that`s the head & authority of the church which is confired in scripture. But we sometimes see humans that love to claim authority. Should we shun church because of this? No, we should expose such people but if the body refuses to listen & wants to keep humans as the head rather than Christ then we need to look elsewhere for fellowship. This doesn`t mean there are no leaders or discipline in the church. 2 Tim. 5:1 says to rebuke those who sin. This is part of the care we give to one another & it`s where mature leaders are useful b/c it keeps the gossips & fickle ppl from hurting others. The respected mature ppl would handle discipline issues.

1 Cor.14 touches on what Strangelove spoke of church edifcation. Edification can be done in a forum so the forum church gets a point there.

The church`s role is to anoint the sick & help qualifying widows. A forum can`t do these.
So my conclusion is a forum isn`t God`s design as a church but it can be edifying to the Body. But if one can`t find a group of Believers, a forum may be a suitable substitute although not an equivalent. Also since the church isn`t as God designed it others may benefit from a forum like parents of autistic, mentally retarded, ADHD, or mentally ill kids who are too disruptive for church. In God`s design for church, I think even disruptive kids would have a place but that`s the ideal church not reality.

 

[Strangelove]

So my conclusion is a forum isn`t God`s design as a church but it can be edifying to the Body. But if one can`t find a group of Believers, a forum may be a suitable substitute although not an equivalent. Also since the church isn`t as God designed it others may benefit from a forum like parents of autistic, mentally retarded, ADHD, or mentally ill kids who are too disruptive for church. In God`s design for church, I think even disruptive kids would have a place but that`s the ideal church not reality.

I think instead of dissecting your post and saying what I agree with and what I dont, I'll just accept is as a descent compromise. We're all going to Heaven regardless of how we choose to assemble.

Nice post.

(I'm definately too disruptive for church...lolz)

 

[jasoncran]

I'd rather not go somewhere with graven images of my Lord hanging from the walls and people practising necromancy.

Thanks all the same.

If it's RCC or internet fellowship.....I'll take the forums.

Plus...there would be zero fellowship as no-one speaks English there...so whats the point?

ah the ignorance as not all rcc is the same,some dont pray to the saints.

i have one of those in my town at one time.

and some are charismatic. seen those.

and well your wife doenst speak english if i recall , is this correct?

if so then i guess somehow it works.

and i have had haitans that dont speak english visit my old chruch and their pastor translated the sermons and songs into creole for them.

and surely theres some there they do speak english, as i doubt you are the only english speaker there that is saved.