Bible Study Is Death A Sin? - Yes!

[for_his_glory]

No. The Bible does not say that Adam "spiritually died" the day that he ate the fruit. Read the account. Your claim is in error. The reason I suggested that you soften your heart is so that you can accept what the Bible says instead of your presupposition.

You are walking a fine line here with the ToS as in putting me down for what I believe to be truth and telling me to soften my heart as I am in error just because you believe different, but I am not a moderator and do forgive you your arrogance towards me in this matter.


How can one become Spiritually born again if they are not Spiritually dead to Christ in the first place.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Dead in sins means we have no fellowship with the Father. It is only by a Spiritual rebirth that we now have life eternal with the Father as before we were Spiritually dead for we knew not His Spirit.

 

[TimothyW]

I was not trying to put you down. The only way for a seed to grow is if the soil is softened. The seed is the truth from the Bible. As Christians we all want to grow in the truth. The only way this can happen is if our "soil" is softened. I have experienced this many times when I talk to people about the Bible says. Some people are so convinced that the Bible says what they think it says that they can't see that it doesn't actually say what they think it says. I don't want this for you. The Bible does not say that Adam died spiritually before Adam died physically. It simply does not say that. Insisting that Adam died spiritually will not make the Bible say that Adam died spiritually. I don't want to put you down in any way, if you want to leave the discussion and hold onto your belief that Adam died spiritually before Adam died physically, you are welcome to go. But if you stay to discuss this, don't be angry with me. Have I become your enemy by telling you the truth? Should I say that the Bible does say that Adam died spiritually before he died physically just to be your "friend"? What kind of a friend would I be if I did that?

 

[th1b.taylor]

I'm sorry, but the Bible says when Adam died. Read Genesis 5:5. The Bible does not say that Adam died in any way when he bit into the fruit. Fact.

And what you are doing is not acceptable behavior, your trolling d that is forbidden. I gave you the scripture, the first three chapters and of those important passages, all of them for history, I asked you to consider what God had commanded Adam, included the penalty of death, and to consider the manner that Satan twisted the command and I would have thought you would be able to consider the way Eve misquoted the Command. You have been given the correct answer by, at least, two people and you are now trolling.

I have not reread my post but I recall, even, explaining that Adam died the second death or Spiritual Death first and then that at over 900, 930 or 39, I recall, he died what Christian m the first death. Troll some more by refusing to address the issue raised and I'll break my bad habit of just ignoring it. We can act like brothers or we can act like bikers because we both seem to know how but I will not do that, ever, again. If you are a true Seeker, you do not want to send the great White Throne Judgment any more than I do but right now the fruit you're producing is closer to the Old Bill Taylor that rode in the wind than it is to God and that ain't good.

So how about we both enjoy a good conversation without freaking one another?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Sounds to me like we no longer are headed to death, we are headed to eternal life. (If we have repented of our sins and turned to Christ for eternal life)

That is a quick, unresearched answer that is wrong. The most notable thing every human on this earth inherited is the sin nature. Adam was not created with the sin nature because that nature is the Spiritual Death every human over comes with the Spiritual Rebirth, the Second Birth spoken of to Nicodemus by Jesus.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I was not trying to put you down. The only way for a seed to grow is if the soil is softened. The seed is the truth from the Bible.

But you are putting people down, another form of trolling, because several of us have planted the seed of truth in your field, plowed or not plowed, and in a display that I do not want to name, you have refused to examine and to study. We do not know your Pastor but someone has poisoned the field and it was not us.

You spoke of plowing the field, well, in my early years and through most of my I elder years I have plowed, derooted and prepared fields for planting and it feels to cold to plant in yours. We have, each of us, plowed and planted the truth but you keep pouring ice water on them and then hiding the light to keep it from taking root to prosper. The truth is, you are refusing to study, period. And unlike the Great Pretender in the Oval Office, you can take mine and bank it.

Now please, just like I would address my mother, dont be rude any more.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Should I say that the Bible does say that Adam died spiritually before he died physically just to be your "friend"? What kind of a friend would I be if I did that?

Folks would assume you had prayed for Holy Spirit guidance and had prayerfully studied to find the truth. I'll tell you what, not PM Chopper, you respect him, and ask him about when Adam acquired the sin nature we all inherit from him?

 

[Karl]

Timothy, you say you study and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you, just like we do, so if you claim Adam didn't die spiritually until 930 years later, then please tell us what the Holy Spirit has taught you died the day Adam rebelled against God, ...or are you inferring one day for Adam was 930 years?

 

[TimothyW]

Timothy, you say you study and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you, just like we do, so if you claim Adam didn't die spiritually until 930 years later, then please tell us what the Holy Spirit has taught you died the day Adam rebelled against God, ...or are you inferring one day for Adam was 930 years?

Okay, tell me what the Bible says died the day that Adam ate the fruit, and show me the scriptures and I will believe what the scriptures say. I am not inferring that one day for Adam was 930 years and I don't know why you think that I am inferring that. According to the Bible, Adam died when he was 930 years old. The Bible makes no mention whatsoever of Adam dying before that. I don't know why this fact is so upsetting to you and the others in this thread.

 

[TimothyW]

Folks would assume you had prayed for Holy Spirit guidance and had prayerfully studied to find the truth. I'll tell you what, not PM Chopper, you respect him, and ask him about when Adam acquired the sin nature we all inherit from him?

According to the Bible, did Adam die the day that he acquired the sin nature we all inherit from him? If he did, can you show me where the Bible says that? Please sir, can I have some scripture support for what you are saying?

What I am saying is very simple. The Bible does not say that Adam died the day that he ate the fruit. I don't know why this fact is upsetting to you.
I will say this. Maybe Adam did die the day he ate the fruit, and he died again when he was 930 years old, but the only death of Adam that is recorded in the Bible is his death when he was 930 years old. Is this acceptable to you, sir?

 

[TimothyW]

Now please, just like I would address my mother, dont be rude any more.

I believe that I have been more than polite to everyone on this thread. I cannot say the same for you, sir.

 

[Ricko]

Look to 1 John 1:6-9. Before they ate the fruit they had never sinned. They were in fellowship with God. After they ate they lost their fellowship. They (and we) need to confess before we can again be in fellowship with God. Could this loss of fellowship be the death in question?

 

[Karl]

Because Timothy, dear brother, it's a foundational fact to our need of salvation.

You ask for Scriptures, the Word is full of them, in fact, on every page, the proof is the reason God (the Word) became a man and dwelt amongst us John 1:14, and the reason He told Nic at night he (we) need (ed) to be born again John 3:3, and the reason the Psalmist was inspired to write, "in the volume of the book it is written of Me," ...the Scriptures you are asking for are Jesus is on every page of the Bible, ....He is the answer to our spiritual dilemma.

I was taught many years ago that God never lies and the Word is never wrong, so if I believe something that contradicts what God has said in His Word, then I am the one that is wrong and not His Word.

Please consider that and meditate on it, ask the Lord what I have been asking you, "What died in Adam on the day he rebelled?"

And if I may ask you a personal question, "Why do you hold so tenaciously to this belief (and others), is there someone you love that has died without receiving Christ?" If so, I'm not saying you necessarily need to respond here, maybe in private with one of the brothers you know and trust, that loves you and can be kind and gentle with you?

I'm trying to help not argue, I hope you can see that brother.

In His Love,

Karl

 

[for_his_glory]

I was not trying to put you down. The only way for a seed to grow is if the soil is softened. The seed is the truth from the Bible. As Christians we all want to grow in the truth. The only way this can happen is if our "soil" is softened. I have experienced this many times when I talk to people about the Bible says. Some people are so convinced that the Bible says what they think it says that they can't see that it doesn't actually say what they think it says. I don't want this for you. The Bible does not say that Adam died spiritually before Adam died physically. It simply does not say that. Insisting that Adam died spiritually will not make the Bible say that Adam died spiritually. I don't want to put you down in any way, if you want to leave the discussion and hold onto your belief that Adam died spiritually before Adam died physically, you are welcome to go. But if you stay to discuss this, don't be angry with me. Have I become your enemy by telling you the truth? Should I say that the Bible does say that Adam died spiritually before he died physically just to be your "friend"? What kind of a friend would I be if I did that?

First off I am not angry with you or consider you any kind of enemy as you are my brother in Christ and I have much love towards you as everyone. You keep asking for scriptures to support our claim on Spiritual death and you have been given many scriptures by many of us, but yet you refuse to see Spiritual death within God speaking to Adam in Genesis 2:17 that if he ate from the tree he would surely die. Just because it doesn't use the actual word Spiritual death, but only death does not mean Adam would die physically that day he ate of the tree, but the inclination is that in all reality he lost fellowship with God causing that Spiritual part Adam had with God to die. Gods word is very literal in parts, but very metaphorical in it's Spiritual parts and this is why we need not man to teach us apart from the Holy Spirit as the Holy Spirit will teach us all things, literal or Spiritual, of the word of God.

 

[TimothyW]

Look to 1 John 1:6-9. Before they ate the fruit they had never sinned. They were in fellowship with God. After they ate they lost their fellowship. They (and we) need to confess before we can again be in fellowship with God. Could this loss of fellowship be the death in question?

Are you asking me this?
Okay here is 1 John 1:6-9
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This doesn't really say anything about death. Could you expand on this? I don't think that "loss of fellowship" is the same thing as "death".

 

[TimothyW]

Please consider that and meditate on it, ask the Lord what I have been asking you, "What died in Adam on the day he rebelled?"

Karl

Couldn't you just tell me what the Bible says died in Adam on the day that he rebelled, and use scriptures for support?

If I have to say what died in Adam on the day that he rebelled, I would only be guessing because the Bible doesn't say that anything died in Adam on the day he rebelled.
I will think about what may have died in Adam that day, but it would be much simpler if you would just tell me.

 

[Ricko]

Are you asking me this?
Okay here is 1 John 1:6-9
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This doesn't really say anything about death. Could you expand on this? I don't think that "loss of fellowship" is the same thing as "death".

Timothy,
I wasn't asking you directly, just a general question in hopes to guide us to find an answer. Maybe we don't see loss of fellowship as death, but Maybe God does.

 

[Karl]

Timothy, I/we have been telling you and we are not guessing, this fact is interwoven through the whole of Scripture and it has been revealed to us by the Holy Spirit 1 Jn 2:27, may I humbly suggest, as your brother, Pro 25:2,

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.

Please, don't guess, ask the Lord, like you have asked Him to explain other Scripture, what died the day Adam rebelled?

Blessings

 

[Ricko]

In order to understand this better we need a definition of death. What does it mean to die? To me, death is separation. When we physically die, our body is separated from our spirit. When Adam sinned, he was separated from God. Both are called death. In Romans 6:2 Paul says we are dead to sin. Are we physically dead? Not yet.

 

[th1b.taylor]

According to the Bible, did Adam die the day that he acquired the sin nature we all inherit from him? If he did, can you show me where the Bible says that? Please sir, can I have some scripture support for what you are saying?

Genesis 2:15 The Lord God took the man [ver. 8] and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil [ch. 3:1-3, 11, 17] you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you [Rom. 6:23; James 1:15] shall surely die.”

Now, please remember, Adam ate from the fruit eve gave to him. Is this an assumption, no sir, if we quench the Spirit it is still discernable using using pure human logic that it is said, between the lines, that Adam died that day even though he lived for 930 years.

When I was in Jr. High, some of the teachers expected us to learn
how to read between the lines, both written and verbal. Until a Christian learn to filly surrender their will to the will of God, comprehension, much of it from between the lines is a must to read the scriptures. Much will remain a mystery, even then, but for a basic understanding that leads to this surrender, this comprehension is essential.

(edited because the Spirit had not finished.)

What I am saying is very simple. The Bible does not say that Adam died the day that he ate the fruit. I don't know why this fact is upsetting to you.
I will say this. Maybe Adam did die the day he ate the fruit, and he died again when he was 930 years old, but the only death of Adam that is recorded in the Bible is his death when he was 930 years old. Is this acceptable to you, sir?

No sir, it is not reasonable to assume a thing instead of allowing the Spirit of God to give us God's answer first and stop there. As a Bible Teacher I am familiar with this issue and I have even had one Seminary Professor/Pastor of my own age ask me where I was educated on the Holy Scriptures and he foot noted the request with "and don't give me that Holy Spirit manure," and of course he did not say manure or even crap. There is better than 98% of the membership of the American Church Universal does not believe in the Holy Spirit's indwelling and one on one instruction. I pray that is not true of any here but I have one, right now trying to shake me loose from my belief in God's Six, actual, day Creation Account th claims the scientific theory of evolution fits the account, it does not, of course.

 

[Karl]

Timothy, if we want to get even closer to the Truth, then what was dead in you and me that we needed to be born again?

Blessings