Is faith a condition?

[AVBunyan]

Re: reply

You both midunderstood AV's question.

He is not asking for any requirements; that word wasn't even in his post. You are projecting it there. He is asking what, or properly rather, who does the saving. How we get to a knowledge of salvation, in itself, does not save anyone.

Thank you Vic - You nailed it - Your response and clarification was a blessing to me.

God bless

 

[AVBunyan]

Christ saves. Faith is given by God for repentance and for confession that Jesus Christ is the Savior.

Amen Solo - nice work.
The faith we get that justifies is not ours but is a gift as you indicated - Eph. 2:8, 9.

Gang, start with who saves and work out from there - Once this is setlled then your confessions, prayers, reopentances, and faith takes a back seat.

Your faith did not hang on the cross and take a beating from the Father.

God bless 8-)

 

[unred typo]

Christ saves. Faith is given by God for repentance and for confession that Jesus Christ is the Savior.
The Spirit quickens one to believe since one who is dead in their sin cannot raise themselves to see and hear the truth. Without God drawing one to Himself through the blood of Jesus Christ by the quickening of the Holy Spirit, one will not nor cannot be saved.
How many times can one climb the tower of babel to reach heaven? A work of man will never gain him access into the kingdom of God.

You are a victim locked away in a tower of Babel of your own making. You read the words and make elaborate doctrines that have no ability to save, except they subtly make the accusation that God himself is responsible for saving some and allowing others to go to hell. There is no concern or worry or striving or working in your fool’s paradise. All is peace and security. It is the peace of death though.

All you think you have to believe is that by ‘just believing that Jesus saves you,’ you are automatically saved and saved forever. Clever deception. Cunningly devised fable, in fact. You dress it up in works of faith that, (no surprise), God also causes you to do, after he saves you. So if you do no works of love and faith, that would be God’s fault, too.

The only problem with your wonderful salvation doctrine is that it isn’t true. You are dead to the truth. All my admonishment to follow what Jesus teaches falls on deaf ears. You could arise out of your dead slumber, but you are comfortable in your doctrines as much as the Pharisees were happy with their rituals and religion and had no true relationship with God. You don’t even see that you are blind and naked and starving for righteousness and because you say that you see, you will die in your sins if you don’t repent.

Please explain the following passage in light of your statement that “The Spirit quickens one to believe since one who is dead in their sin cannot raise themselves to see and hear the truth.†It says just the opposite of your doctrine:

Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he says, Awake you that sleeps, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light.
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

As long as in the end, you slide under the gates of heaven, you’re happy as a clam, living your life of worry free self indulgence. Maybe you will spend eternity as a clam, safely tucked in the mud under the river of life flowing by the streets of gold. That would be fair, wouldn‘t it? Isn’t that all you want, to just make heaven by the skin of your teeth,(neck) content with your little gold shell of a mansion, and plenty to eat and drink? Just speculating. Oscar will have me labeled as a Hindu or Buddhist now. Keep guessing, Oscar. :wink:

 

[Drew]

Splitting the hairs between faith in Christ, repentance of sin, confession of sin and Christ himself is the kicker. Of what use is one without the others to the believer? Can you believe in Christ and not believe what he says? Is he your savior if he isn’t your Lord? Do you have faith if you don’t believe enough to follow what he says? Can you confess your sins if you don’t repent of them? Can you repent of them while still wanting to continue in them? Are you saved from your sin if you never give up sinning?

I agree with this. We need to be careful to not make faith a "container" that only holds the "knowledge" that Jesus is Lord and Saviour. Even the demons know this. Are they redeemed? Methinks not. I think that faith is reduced to such non-saving "knowledge" if we do not see it (faith) as embodying a lived out commitment to following the teachings of Jesus.

 

[AVBunyan]

As long as in the end, you slide under the gates of heaven, you’re happy as a clam, living your life of worry free self indulgence.

You are a classic example of one who is seeking to make your practical walk the basis for your justification. This theology will put you at the great white throne.

 

[xicali]

Seems like works here...

Amen Solo - nice work.
The faith we get that justifies is not ours but is a gift as you indicated - Eph. 2:8, 9.

Gang, start with who saves and work out from there - Once this is setlled then your confessions, prayers, reopentances, and faith takes a back seat.

Your faith did not hang on the cross and take a beating from the Father.

God bless 8-)

AV... Than what comes first salvation and than we "work out" a few details after we been saved?

"Gang, start with who saves and work out from there - Once this is setlled then your confessions, prayers, reopentances, and faith takes a back seat." :smt117

 

[AVBunyan]

Re: Seems like works here...

"Gang, start with who saves and work out from there - Once this is setlled then your confessions, prayers, reopentances, and faith takes a back seat." :smt117

The working "out" is actually working "from" your justification. Get the justification settled first.

God bless

 

[Solo]

You are a victim locked away in a tower of Babel of your own making. You read the words and make elaborate doctrines that have no ability to save, except they subtly make the accusation that God himself is responsible for saving some and allowing others to go to hell. There is no concern or worry or striving or working in your fool’s paradise. All is peace and security. It is the peace of death though.

All you think you have to believe is that by ‘just believing that Jesus saves you,’ you are automatically saved and saved forever. Clever deception. Cunningly devised fable, in fact. You dress it up in works of faith that, (no surprise), God also causes you to do, after he saves you. So if you do no works of love and faith, that would be God’s fault, too.

The only problem with your wonderful salvation doctrine is that it isn’t true. You are dead to the truth. All my admonishment to follow what Jesus teaches falls on deaf ears. You could arise out of your dead slumber, but you are comfortable in your doctrines as much as the Pharisees were happy with their rituals and religion and had no true relationship with God. You don’t even see that you are blind and naked and starving for righteousness and because you say that you see, you will die in your sins if you don’t repent.

Please explain the following passage in light of your statement that “The Spirit quickens one to believe since one who is dead in their sin cannot raise themselves to see and hear the truth.†It says just the opposite of your doctrine:

Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he says, Awake you that sleeps, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light.
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

As long as in the end, you slide under the gates of heaven, you’re happy as a clam, living your life of worry free self indulgence. Maybe you will spend eternity as a clam, safely tucked in the mud under the river of life flowing by the streets of gold. That would be fair, wouldn‘t it? Isn’t that all you want, to just make heaven by the skin of your teeth,(neck) content with your little gold shell of a mansion, and plenty to eat and drink? Just speculating. Oscar will have me labeled as a Hindu or Buddhist now. Keep guessing, Oscar. :wink:

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:1-9

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Colossians 2:6-23