I don't fear the church at all, and I'm totally open to the Word of God.
Organizations are not the church, so what I am skeptical of are organizations.
I have great respect for the founding church fathers, but I also see how their beliefs have been adulterated over time. It's like the whisper game...the truths change with each retelling.
The fact is that we don't have to go back and read what all those men taught, because believers have the Holy Spirit WITHIN us, and because we have a body of believers that are being taught by the same Holy Spirit right now..today.
I'll often go back and read sermons by Spurgeon, Tozer, Oswald Chambers, and many other men of God. I don't study their doctrine, I read the words they speak and find much truth there. Not all truth, mind you, for no man has all truth, and that can only be found in the Word of God. We have the ability, through the Holy Spirit within, to recognize when something doesn't ring quite true. Then we search the Scripture for ourselves. We should never accept something as truth no matter how great the man's reputation, or how big a following he has.
Personally, I beieve in the body ministry...not one man led organizations. My neighbor next door can deliver as great a truth, and sometimes greater, than any of those you've listed above. It doesn't take years of study, it takes years of spending time in the Word of God.
Your missing and or twisting my point. This is the Apologetics and "THEOLOGY" section.
In this area people discuss theology; doctrines of thoughts related to the Christian faith.
No one is saying you can't be a Christian and not have studied history or great writings of theology, but if your going to come here and belittle John Calvin, then maybe you should know what your talking about. otherwise it's pointless. And when others who've studied these doctrines try to come in here and educate others on them, rather tan keep comparing these great thoughts against your own, you should try to first understand these thoughts rather than simply assume others are blindly lead by the feeding of a dead preacher or organised religion; because when you compare your thoughts of the bible to some of these well established theologies as if to argue them, you're not disproving anything, or countering anything Just saying what you think.
No one has argued, that I've seen, your "beliefs". No one thinks, that I've seen, that your not a Christian or that you don't love the lord. I have no doubt you do.
What's being argued are cognitive logical thoughts as such thoughts relate to theology. So much so, that it's difficult to pin-point what the theology is you are expressing to have a conversation. Then it deteriorates into no discussion on "THEOLOGY":...which is what this section is for.
This thread started out OK, but it sounded like a thread to argue works or faith, which is juicy because we can get into various types of known theology and doctrines and go from there, but when it becomes obvious that someone does not have a grasp of well established theological thoughts, yet they want to argue well established theological thought with their love of God, it's pointless to say we are discussing "theology".
I'm glad your a Christian Glory. I think your spot on in your faith and love of Jesus Christ and there is nothing in your core belief that I can say I disagree with. I'm not arguing your belief. You believe in Jesus Christ, that he died for you sins and you place your faith, hope and trust in him. You are my brother in Christ, but if your going to come to a bar fight, bring a weapon, or wait outside....it's a figure of speech my friend. I know you would not be in a bar fight.
If I've been too harsh please accept my apology. I don't come to the A&T section to have a friendly discussion, and I don't come to the A&T section to talk about my personal love for Jesus Christ. I come here to defend certain theologies, or the faith itself.
All this mess in here on this thread and in the end, everyone agrees that faith is the key to salvation, well how about that. That's what we've accomplished. No one brought up any theologies. GM, me tried to discuss Calvin, and a few others, but most of it was all about how others are linking their own logic to the scriptures, and not to theology. That's it. What a disappointment don't you think?
Honestly there aren't too many people on this forum that have a very well established understanding of theology. There is one I've seen, and he's not a protestant. There are others who lean a little one way or another and know it, but the vast majority of reads in here are not really digging into theology much at all.
I've seen atheist in here with a better knowledge of theology then many Christians, who inevitably end up just making up their own straw-men argument .
Usually either someone states what they believe and if they are not clear they open themselves up for questions until it is clear, then a discussion takes place that can lead into a real debate with each party clearly knowing where they and the other stand. This thread was a "poser". It started off looking like something it was not, then when it was fully investigated it turned out to be empty and not prepared to present anything, other than "I Love Jesus"....great! So do I.
