Is God male, female or both?

[Free]

Re: The Trinity

This topic was created from the off-topic posts in the Trinity discussion: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=44475&page=38

 

[jasoncran]

neither. he is God, a spirit and is referred in the masculine for reason he only knows.

 

[Free]

neither. he is God, a spirit and is referred in the masculine for reason he only knows.

I agree, God is asexual, he transcends sexuality and gender, but also I think we can come up with some likely reasons as to why he has revealed himself to us in masculine terms. Such a list would likely be incomplete.

 

[Randy]

Re: The Trinity

Thanks Randy, for your input.

Do you believe that Eve was created in the image of God?


JLB

Yes and No. Women have hands, feet, head, hair, eyes, torso etc..
I would think Adam follows the form of God from what I read. (Figure of that of a man)

 

[jasoncran]

i think his names say alot

too relate to the early and "primitive" hebrews who came a fresh from chaldea,abraham. He had to use their culture and ideas to get then to understand. Abraham didnt know God as YHWH but as el shaddai. the later is very masculine.imho

 

[JLB]

I agree, God is asexual, he transcends sexuality and gender, but also I think we can come up with some likely reasons as to why he has revealed himself to us in masculine terms. Such a list would likely be incomplete.

Why does the Lord want a Bride?

A bride which is spirit and female.

In this scenario Paul is referring to 4 persons, can you identify the four that make up this scripture.

31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32

JLB

 

[By Grace]

26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
27So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. Genesis 1:26-27

Somewhere within the Us is a female!

JLB

Friend,

When you make an argument, such as you did, based on a logical fallacy, you get a mess, and you sure got one!

Here is why: Your unspoken false assumption is "God has a gender because we use male pronouns when we describe Him". (I am NOT attacking you, nor mocking you, but I am making corrections so that you can learn, OK?)

When you begin with a false premise, you are then acting on a logical error called "begging the question". By definition ANY logical error invalidates everything that follows, so to counter the argument, all one needs to do is to identify the fallacy. It is a common mistake, and here are some silly examples to make the point. Did you know that God is a bird? Because He hides believers under His wings. Did you know that God has tattoos? He said that believers are tattooed on his palms.

In similar vein is the issue of calling God male pronouns. It is a way that we can personalize Him, and make Him more intimate than would be the case if we used a neutral pronoun, such as It. But it also goes much deeper than that because many of the names of God are masculine, and are demonstrating His strength, power and might.

On the other hand, there are decidedly "feminine" traits that our God has: He is compassionate, He is slow to wrath, He wants us to have no evil affect us, He is a healer, etc.

So when the Godhead declared that humanity would be created in "OUR image", the traits of a human male and human female were more in line with their roles within the family. It does NOT mean that mercy (as an example) is solely a female trait, nor is leadership a strictly mail trait.

Hope that helps!

BTW Asyncritus is not correct in his/her pontification of what Scripture says in John 17:5

 

[JLB]

Friend,

When you make an argument, such as you did, based on a logical fallacy, you get a mess, and you sure got one!

Here is why: Your unspoken false assumption is "God has a gender because we use male pronouns when we describe Him". (I am NOT attacking you, nor mocking you, but I am making corrections so that you can learn, OK?)

When you begin with a false premise, you are then acting on a logical error called "begging the question". By definition ANY logical error invalidates everything that follows, so to counter the argument, all one needs to do is to identify the fallacy. It is a common mistake, and here are some silly examples to make the point. Did you know that God is a bird? Because He hides believers under His wings. Did you know that God has tattoos? He said that believers are tattooed on his palms.

In similar vein is the issue of calling God male pronouns. It is a way that we can personalize Him, and make Him more intimate than would be the case if we used a neutral pronoun, such as It. But it also goes much deeper than that because many of the names of God are masculine, and are demonstrating His strength, power and might.

On the other hand, there are decidedly "feminine" traits that our God has: He is compassionate, He is slow to wrath, He wants us to have no evil affect us, He is a healer, etc.

So when the Godhead declared that humanity would be created in "OUR image", the traits of a human male and human female were more in line with their roles within the family. It does NOT mean that mercy (as an example) is solely a female trait, nor is leadership a strictly mail trait.

Hope that helps!

BTW Asyncritus is not correct in his/her pontification of what Scripture says in John 17:5

One of the biggest mistakes a person can make is to presume to know the answer to something based on his or her intellect and have no scripture or scriptures in which the show where this knowledge was based.

Your carnal reasoning with no scripture mixed with a little higher learning, comes up with a logical presumption with is based on nothing but your opinion.

I'm not attacking or mocking you, I am trying to help you to learn to use scripture.

Hope this helps.


JLB

 

[jasoncran]

so the bride is go to have sex with jesus?

 

[rrowell]

Friend,

When you make an argument, such as you did, based on a logical fallacy, you get a mess, and you sure got one!

Here is why: Your unspoken false assumption is "God has a gender because we use male pronouns when we describe Him". (I am NOT attacking you, nor mocking you, but I am making corrections so that you can learn, OK?)

When you begin with a false premise, you are then acting on a logical error called "begging the question". By definition ANY logical error invalidates everything that follows, so to counter the argument, all one needs to do is to identify the fallacy. It is a common mistake, and here are some silly examples to make the point. Did you know that God is a bird? Because He hides believers under His wings. Did you know that God has tattoos? He said that believers are tattooed on his palms.

In similar vein is the issue of calling God male pronouns. It is a way that we can personalize Him, and make Him more intimate than would be the case if we used a neutral pronoun, such as It. But it also goes much deeper than that because many of the names of God are masculine, and are demonstrating His strength, power and might.

On the other hand, there are decidedly "feminine" traits that our God has: He is compassionate, He is slow to wrath, He wants us to have no evil affect us, He is a healer, etc.

So when the Godhead declared that humanity would be created in "OUR image", the traits of a human male and human female were more in line with their roles within the family. It does NOT mean that mercy (as an example) is solely a female trait, nor is leadership a strictly mail trait.

Hope that helps!

BTW Asyncritus is not correct in his/her pontification of what Scripture says in John 17:5

The problem everyone has is your chronology is off..

the most quoted here Genesis 1:27 simply says he created the man then the women on the same day, note it says "created 'man' in his own image"

"in the image of God created he him" (not them) lets look to chapter 2

Note here in chapter two we see more in depth elaboration on what happened on that day:

Genesis 2:7-17 (KJV)
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

God made the "man" brought him to "life", put him in the "Garden" told him "to dress and keep it" told him of the tree of knowledge, told him "thou shalt not eat of it"

Still no "women" yet...

Then after all of that making "man" in "their own image" he said it was not good for him to be alone:

Genesis 2:18 (KJV)
18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Even at this point "the help meet is not yet created", but only the "man" in "their own image"

God then makes all the animals etc... tells Adam to name them (she is still not around yet)


Genesis 2:21-22 (KJV)
21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

Now God has created the "help meet" from the man that was made in "their own image" but not the same as a man, we see God makes a distinction, we now go from "he" to "her"

Yet obviously through "foreknowledge" the bible calls "her" "woman" (at least in the KJV) because...

Then then "Adam" names his help meet:

Genesis 2:23 (KJV)
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

"taken out of Man" so she has many "traits of man" making her of (man"kind"), not exactly in the image of God.

Spirits have no need for propagation, but Gods creation did so there are similarities, but the "man" was made in the image of God.

 

[JLB]

so the bride is go to have sex with jesus?

Those are your words.

Mankind was made in the image and likeness of God. Man reflects attributes of God, not the other way around.

The covenant relationship between a believer and the Lord, whereby we become "one" with the Lord. This doesn't mean He has "sex" with us, however He uses language that associates this process of union, with a union between a man and a woman.

He says -

23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

This is the same expression Mary used in response to Gabriel when he said "you are with child".

Mary said - Then Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I do not know a man?"


Same word here - Strongs 1097 - Ginosko

1. to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
   1. to become known
2. to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of
   1. to understand
   2. to know
3. Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman
4. to become acquainted with, to know

Unless we are "born again" which has to do with our spirit and not our fleshly body, we have no place in God's kingdom!


God the Father has chosen to represent Himself as Male.

God the Son is represented in the scriptures as Male.

The Spirit of Wisdom is represented in the scriptures as Female.


The scriptures are full of this analogy.


It is interesting to note the scripture about The Lord Jesus -

And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6


JLB


PS - Wisdom is known by Her children!

 

[jasoncran]

so brides are woman? the church is a woman isnt she?. im not saying god is to be called a she but is using anthromorphism to get the idea of his nature across. im not a woman in christ and i cant be either. its a figure of speech to show something.

jewish weddings. read up on the chuppa and what is done. then comment.

 

[By Grace]

One of the biggest mistakes a person can make is to presume to know the answer to something based on his or her intellect and have no scripture or scriptures in which the show where this knowledge was based.

Your carnal reasoning with no scripture mixed with a little higher learning, comes up with a logical presumption with is based on nothing but your opinion.

I'm not attacking or mocking you, I am trying to help you to learn to use scripture.

Hope this helps.

JLB

No one can defend, or use Scriptures to support a logical fallacy by the definitions of Scripture, and the nature of a logical fallacy.

If someone posits a fallacious argument, it is moot upon the recognition of the fallacy. You may not like that, and you may post snarky remarks, but that remains true. BTW I posted allusions to Scripture assuming that you would realize that in making partial quotes, I was citing an entire verse, thank you.

It is YOU who made the unstated assumption, "God has a gender because we use male pronouns when we describe Him", so then in the light of what Jesus said about" God is a spirit..." can you find Scripture that supports the God is a man view that you seem to believe?

 

[JLB]

No one can defend, or use Scriptures to support a logical fallacy by the definitions of Scripture, and the nature of a logical fallacy.

If someone posits a fallacious argument, it is moot upon the recognition of the fallacy. You may not like that, and you may post snarky remarks, but that remains true. BTW I posted allusions to Scripture assuming that you would realize that in making partial quotes, I was citing an entire verse, thank you.

It is YOU who made the unstated assumption, "God has a gender because we use male pronouns when we describe Him", so then in the light of what Jesus said about" God is a spirit..." can you find Scripture that supports the God is a man view that you seem to believe?

can you find Scripture that supports the God is a man view that you seem to believe?[/QUOTE]


I didn't say God is a man, those are your words, not mine.

The scriptures teach us God is the Father - Male

Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? Hebrews 12:9

The Lord Jesus is the only begotten Son. Male

That means He was begotten!

Again, I will ask you from the scriptures, who are the persons that this scripture refers to?

31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32

Now I have used scripture to show where I get my information from, please be man enough to answer this simple question.

JLB

 

[By Grace]

can you find Scripture that supports the God is a man view that you seem to believe?

I didn't say God is a man, those are your words, not mine.
The scriptures teach us God is the Father - Male
Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? Hebrews 12:9
The Lord Jesus is the only begotten Son. Male
That means He was begotten!
Again, I will ask you from the scriptures, who are the persons that this scripture refers to?

31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32

Now I have used scripture to show where I get my information from, please be man enough to answer this simple question.

JLB

I am glad that you went to Scriptures; however, the Scriptures you use do not support the positions you choose.

The bottom line is that NEITHER God the Father, nor God Holy Spirit have any gender.

Your starting point is fallacious because you are reasoning "Because humans
have gender, so also must the members of the Godhead. Another way of stating that is "Because the created beings have gender, so also must have the Creator." that is a bottom-to-top approach instead a top-to-bottom approach, which gives the Godhead supremacy and uniqueness over all creation.

Try to understand this:

That we are male and female in the image of God says much about God’s purposes with us, His human creatures. We are created to reflect His own nature so that we may represent Him in our dealings with others and over the world He has made. Our goal is to fulfill His will and obey His word. Yet, to accomplish this He has established a framework of relationship. Male and female, while fully equal as the image of God, are nonetheless distinct in the manner of their possession of the image of God. The female’s becoming the image of God through the male indicates a God-intended sense of her reliance upon him, as particularly manifest in the home and community of faith.
​

Biblical foundations for manhood and womanhood. 2002 (W. A. Grudem, Ed.). Foundations for the Family Series (92). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books.

Then try to understand that the way the Creator created us does not correspond to his ontological nature. Surely to a small degree man can create such as in the arts and sciences, and explain in the nature of teachers and preachers, but man cannot create ex nihilo (from nothing), nor can man produce an inerrant Bible.

It is in that way that we are created in the image (picture) of God, but the limitations imposed on our creativity by the Creator does not correspond to, nor limit the ability of the Creator God to create.

 

[JLB]

I am glad that you went to Scriptures; however, the Scriptures you use do not support the positions you choose.

The bottom line is that NEITHER God the Father, nor God Holy Spirit have any gender.

Your starting point is fallacious because you are reasoning "Because humans
have gender, so also must the members of the Godhead. Another way of stating that is "Because the created beings have gender, so also must have the Creator." that is a bottom-to-top approach instead a top-to-bottom approach, which gives the Godhead supremacy and uniqueness over all creation.

Try to understand this:

That we are male and female in the image of God says much about God’s purposes with us, His human creatures. We are created to reflect His own nature so that we may represent Him in our dealings with others and over the world He has made. Our goal is to fulfill His will and obey His word. Yet, to accomplish this He has established a framework of relationship. Male and female, while fully equal as the image of God, are nonetheless distinct in the manner of their possession of the image of God. The female’s becoming the image of God through the male indicates a God-intended sense of her reliance upon him, as particularly manifest in the home and community of faith.
​

Biblical foundations for manhood and womanhood. 2002 (W. A. Grudem, Ed.). Foundations for the Family Series (92). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Books.

Then try to understand that the way the Creator created us does not correspond to his ontological nature. Surely to a small degree man can create such as in the arts and sciences, and explain in the nature of teachers and preachers, but man cannot create ex nihilo (from nothing), nor can man produce an inerrant Bible.

It is in that way that we are created in the image (picture) of God, but the limitations imposed on our creativity by the Creator does not correspond to, nor limit the ability of the Creator God to create.

Why do we have gender?

We are made in the image and likeness of God?

Therefore, based on your reasoning, we should not have gender, right?


How about you answer my question.


Was Eve created in the image of God?

A simple direct Yes or No.

Can you do that? Can you answer the simple question?


JLB

 

[wayseer]

Why do we have gender?

We are made in the image and likeness of God?

Therefore, based on your reasoning, we should not have gender, right?


How about you answer my question.


Was Eve created in the image of God?

A simple direct Yes or No.

Can you do that? Can you answer the simple question?


JLB

First of all there is nothing 'simple' about your question.

Second, demanding Yes or No answers is not conducive to good apologetics. You might the like the simplicity of Yes and No answers but theology is not that simple.

For instance - what do you mean by 'image'. It sounds like you use this term in an anthropromorphic way - that God somehow looks like us humans.

Perhaps 'image' may more to do with our attributes rather than our looks.

 

[By Grace]

Thank you for a good reply!

First of all there is nothing 'simple' about your question.

Second, demanding Yes or No answers is not conducive to good apologetics. You might the like the simplicity of Yes and No answers but theology is not that simple.

For instance - what do you mean by 'image'. It sounds like you use this term in an anthropomorphic way - that God somehow looks like us humans.

Perhaps 'image' may more to do with our attributes rather than our looks.

WOW!! I just succeeded in not making a snarky remark about being good looking! Ain't I good!

Sometimes when we seek to explain or know the reasons for God doing something a certain way, we inadvertently demean God. In those cases, I believe that the best case is to say, "God wanted it that way, so He created it that way." Then we should let it go, and then go off to another subject which we can understand better.

 

[Davies]

Good afternoon,

Is God male or female? That question is begging the question why would it be asked in the first place. We all know God is spirit, but why would God present Himself male? God is referred to as Father. Jesus took on the form of a man. I can't think of a verse where the Holy Spirit is referred to male, well, the Bible uses the personal pronoun He for the Holy Spirit. Could it be because He is the source of all? Adam was created and Eve was formed from him. So, the role the man is to play is the one who is in authority, while the wife is to support and submit to the husband. Sorry, ladies. I know there are all kinds of connotations that come with such language, so bear with me. We only submit to one another as unto Jesus. Thus we have a beautiful picture between the Father and the Son, between the Son and the Church, between the husband and wife. My thought on the reason why God presents Himself as male is that it's a teaching mechanism. When we see Jesus taking on the submissive role with the Father, I think we see the equal and vital role that pictures the kind of relationship God would have with us.

- Davies

 

[wayseer]

Thank you for a good reply!

WOW!! I just succeeded in not making a snarky remark about being good looking! Ain't I good!

It is hard to be humble sometimes - so, well done.

Sometimes when we seek to explain or know the reasons for God doing something a certain way, we inadvertently demean God. In those cases, I believe that the best case is to say, "God wanted it that way, so He created it that way." Then we should let it go, and then go off to another subject which we can understand better.

Perhaps.