Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ?

[smaller]

The word also says God create man for His pleasure so how is mankind able to create pleasure if God created evil that God knew would destroy His creation whom He did so for His pleasure. A house divided against itself can not stand. This would make God divided against Himself. I do not think so.

John O

Man doesn't have anything to give to God or add to God, as if God is in need.

God's pleasure is extracted out of His Own Will. It's not left up to chance.

IF God desires to show His Greatness over evil, making it serve Him, then that is His Pleasure to do so.

Many on the subject of evil think that if God makes same that makes Him same. God can make anything, not be that thing made and still make it to serve His Own Purposes.

s

 

[Elijah674]

I think some Bible verses I just quoted in an earlier thread address this. James 1:13 explains that evil doesn't come from God. He takes no pleasure in it. In fact acts like the one described here are described by God as "abominations."

Also, Is 54:15 contains a passage in which God says to Israel that if people attack them, this attack will not come from him. In other words, it is neither his doing, nor his will.

Some medieval theological viewpoints do not recognize the truth of these Bible verses. I think some of what has become entrenched in doctrinal tradition is nothing more than human misunderstanding, wrongly perceived to be the word of God. I believe this grieves God greatly.

I agree!
But The man of sin (satan) 'teaches' also that God burnes the sinner in an eternal burning of torture! (regardless of age or the person's guilt)

And your comment is very weak as 'i' see it. That of [MISUNDERSTANDING?????]
We are not living in the day's gone by of yester/year, and you think that these ones are not the ones of Heb. 6:6 + 2 Peter 2:21-22? Who on earth does one suppose that God has DEFINED in Rev. 17:1-5 then?

And the last days of Dan. 12 of increased knowledge or of Hosea 4:6. The postings on this thread are reams & reams long with the Lord's correct teachings.. 'IF' one would see them? just here & there!! And these satan's teaching of NO WORKS, are you kidding me?????

Dan. 12
[9] And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
[10] Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but [[the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand;]] but the wise shall understand. (and these still teach immortal worms in hell!:robot

And Hosea 4
[6] My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, ..'

 

[John O]

Many on the subject of evil think that if God makes same that makes Him same. God can make anything, not be that thing made and still make it to serve His Own Purposes.

s

Yes God will use every situation for His purposes but that does not mean that He created the situation (or evil) just that nothing is wasted in His hands.

John O

 

[Pizzaguy]

The answer to the question is absolutely Yes !

I KNEW it, God created my sister to suffer from M.S. and be misreble for His entertainment.

I've been a Christian for 37 years - and, apparently, a damn fool the whole time: praying to a God who uses people's suffering for His own entertainment.

I now believe in Hell - think of the fun THAT is for Him to sit back and watch.

 

[Chris.]

God created everything anything else is wishful thinking. It depends what you classify as evil. If you are thinking suffering is evil then:

Lamentations 3
7 Who can speak and have it happen
if the Lord has not decreed it?
38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that both calamities and good things come?
39 Why should the living complain
when punished for their sins?

 

[Elijah674]

God created everything anything else is wishful thinking. It depends what you classify as evil. If you are thinking suffering is evil then:

Lamentations 3
7 Who can speak and have it happen
if the Lord has not decreed it?
38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that both calamities and good things come?
39 Why should the living complain
when punished for their sins?

What is your point?? Suffering comes from the original sin of Adam on! All die, some quicker than others & some can even die before their time. And Adam's sin was the original cause of all of it. And that makes God happy???

[33] For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.
[34] To crush under his feet all the prisoners of the earth,
[35] To turn aside the right of a man before the face of the most High,
[36] To subvert a man in his cause, the Lord approveth not.

[37] Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?
(the Lord takes the heat because He has allowed satan to live! but not for much longer!)

[38] Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?
[39] Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?
[40] Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.
[41] Let us lift up our heart with our hands unto God in the heavens.oned.

 

[smaller]

Yes God will use every situation for His purposes but that does not mean that He created the situation (or evil) just that nothing is wasted in His hands.

John O

Sure it does. God for example advised Abraham that his progeny would be sent to Egypt and be ill treated for 400 years.

How many died therein in slavery and evil treatment for that example?

One of many such examples in the O.T.

?

s

 

[smaller]

I KNEW it, God created my sister to suffer from M.S. and be misreble for His entertainment.

I've been a Christian for 37 years - and, apparently, a damn fool the whole time: praying to a God who uses people's suffering for His own entertainment.

I now believe in Hell - think of the fun THAT is for Him to sit back and watch.

You alternative is that He sits idly by doing nothing, though having the power to do otherwise.

s

 

[Chris.]

I KNEW it, God created my sister to suffer from M.S. and be misreble for His entertainment.

I've been a Christian for 37 years - and, apparently, a damn fool the whole time: praying to a God who uses people's suffering for His own entertainment.

I now believe in Hell - think of the fun THAT is for Him to sit back and watch.

Truth in every word. God did make everything and the the world we live in. surely any actions your sister has done did not cause here illness. Its just our mortality. My friend died last year at 49 from cancer. There are no answers here.

What if what we are and how we is the best that God can make? How could we know otherwise we are not all knowing!

I am hearing your misery and wish I could help.

Tell god all about it don't hold back, lightning bolts wont come from the sky.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Tell god all about it don't hold back, lightning bolts wont come from the sky.

No lightning hit me after that post, so I'd say you are right.

 

[smaller]

Truth in every word. God did make everything and the the world we live in. surely any actions your sister has done did not cause here illness. Its just our mortality. My friend died last year at 49 from cancer. There are no answers here.

What if what we are and how we is the best that God can make? How could we know otherwise we are not all knowing!

I am hearing your misery and wish I could help.

Tell god all about it don't hold back, lightning bolts wont come from the sky.

These are the factual 'planting conditions' of all of us. It doesn't change until those facts are put off.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

There is no amount of rosy scenario that is going to make any of the above facts anything more than what they factually are.

And those are the facts that God Himself elected to place us into in this present life, sorrowful as they factually are.

These facts do not come without Divine Purposes. In this present state we discern our need for Mercy. Hope arises for better. We participate in Heavenly matters in this experience of contrast. There are many matters eternal that arise in our hearts over these matters. Mercy, trust, faith, hope, love REGARDLESS of the conditions.

Was God unjust for such conditions? No. He is able to make good of it all. Without discipline from those matters we'd be no more than spoiled bastard children, never having tasted of test or adversity.

s

 

[heymikey80]

I KNEW it, God created my sister to suffer from M.S. and be misreble for His entertainment.

I've never known ethics to be entertainment to anybody. Normally it involves quite a struggle against your own human benefit.

God's ethics is defined by him as agapae -- acting for the good of another. Would that be entertainment?

 

[Chris.]

These are the factual 'planting conditions' of all of us. It doesn't change until those facts are put off.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

There is no amount of rosy scenario that is going to make any of the above facts anything more than what they factually are.

And those are the facts that God Himself elected to place us into in this present life, sorrowful as they factually are.

These facts do not come without Divine Purposes. In this present state we discern our need for Mercy. Hope arises for better. We participate in Heavenly matters in this experience of contrast. There are many matters eternal that arise in our hearts over these matters. Mercy, trust, faith, hope, love REGARDLESS of the conditions.

Was God unjust for such conditions? No. He is able to make good of it all. Without discipline from those matters we'd be no more than spoiled bastard children, never having tasted of test or adversity.

s

I was trying to console pizza. you cant fluff it up and say god is not responsible for all things and only responsible for the pleasant things. He is not responsible for our freewill choices (sin). Right at the beginning of the bible in Genesis.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning —the sixth day. That includes our freewill ability to sin and choose to be with God via giving up that urge to sin.

The OT is full of references to gods outpouring of wrath on israel.

My hope is my spiritual body was made better than my physical one. I have no desire to remain in the flesh any longer than I have to. Why delay paradise?

 

[smaller]

I was trying to console pizza. you cant fluff it up and say god is not responsible for all things and only responsible for the pleasant things. He is not responsible for our freewill choices (sin). Right at the beginning of the bible in Genesis.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning —the sixth day. That includes our freewill ability to sin and choose to be with God via giving up that urge to sin.

The OT is full of references to gods outpouring of wrath on israel.

My hope is my spiritual body was made better than my physical one. I have no desire to remain in the flesh any longer than I have to. Why delay paradise?

Many believers will look at things they don't like and try to exonerate God. And others will see His Superiority in all things.

It's a common sight differential between same. Having seen the later I can't see otherwise.

s

 

[savedbygrace57]

We know that sin and death were caused by God, by His Eternal Purpose, which is Redemptive, which means forgiveness of sins Heb 9:12, because of the Love He had for those He Loved and yet Loves Jer 31:3

3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

For the Godhead Love is a Redeeming Love, centered in His Redeeming Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus Jn 3:16

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

How could God have had a Eternal Purpose centered in Christ Jesus, and His Dying for sin, and at the same time God Created the World and Adam, wishing that Adam would not sin ? God before He Created Adam, had already Loved His Elect with an Everlasting Love centered in Christ Jesus Rom 8:39

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Pizzaguy]

I've never known ethics to be entertainment to anybody. Normally it involves quite a struggle against your own human benefit.

I'm totally lost here.

God's ethics is defined by him as agapae -- acting for the good of another. Would that be entertainment?

I'm not even sure what you are saying here. Is it that God gave my sister M.S. for her own good???

Again, I DON"T THINK you are saying that - but I'm unsure of what it is you are saying.

 

[Elijah674]

John.9

[1] And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
[2] And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
[3] Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

 

[Chris.]

Many believers will look at things they don't like and try to exonerate God. And others will see His Superiority in all things.

It's a common sight differential between same. Having seen the later I can't see otherwise.

s

It's a hard concept to get your head around, that while we sense that loving relationship with God the redeemer there is also in the same God the creator. His plan is we must die to pave the way for our young to live, that way the earth constantly renews. I don't like that plan but I am part of it and will be. No point worrying.

You just accept it and say "oh well!" thats how it is.

You can mentally agonize over it all but it gets you nowhere.

I'll bet these thoughts we are having about this have been on the minds of billions of people over thousands of years before us.

 

[Elijah674]

It's a hard concept to get your head around, that while we sense that loving relationship with God the redeemer there is also in the same God the creator. His plan is we must die to pave the way for our young to live, that way the earth constantly renews. I don't like that plan but I am part of it and will be. No point worrying.

You just accept it and say "oh well!" thats how it is.

You can mentally agonize over it all but it gets you nowhere.

I'll bet these thoughts we are having about this have been on the minds of billions of people over thousands of years before us.

So when God states 'why will you die before your time', He just speaks nonsence?

 

[Chris.]

So when God states 'why will you die before your time', He just speaks nonsence?

can i ask you when you take your garbage out once a week to the do you need a compatible bible verse so you can do it properly?
Because unless you are taking the garbage out to the road according to the bible you are doing it incorrectly.

Do you ever feel as though you like creating a legalism binding yourself with your bible verses to replace the law?

Don't take me wrong dude but I worry for you I get the feeling everything must be black and white for you. In our grey world that will give you no peace.

Please don't take what I say as a bad thing. I mean you no harm.

I tend to write intuitively as I feel led. That drives people nuts who need to see things in black and white.