is hell real? and if so is it eternal?

[jasoncran]

some deny both, others say that its temporary.

 

[jasoncran]

some deny both, others say that its temporary.

a good case against the idea of hell.

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules ... ws&sid=455

 

[ORwarriOR]

I've made my stance clear in the other thread as you know but I'll summarize it here to have as well

My biggest concern about eternal hell is that it goes against the very nature of our God who personally proclaimed himself as a merciful and loving God.

Micah 7:18
Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

Exodus 34:6
The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth.

As a loving and merciful God how could he torture his creations for an eternity? And how could you enjoy heaven if you knew anyone as suffering an eternity whether it be there choice or not; still doesn't take away from suffering I believe there is punishment and the bible makes that clear; however as the link jasoncran provided shows that the concept of eternal hell is just the result of a mistranslation which has caused more harm than good over the years and allowed non-believers to become a bit hesitant to come to the faith because it paints a false image for our God.

Gehenna (greek word jesus most often used for hell) is a very real place, and it's somewhere noone would want to go to and Christ made this very clear. However the scripture also paints the truth that we can either choose either life in christ, or death in hell. No-where does it indicate eternal punishment; that concept has also come from the mistranslation of the word aeon, which simply means an indefinite period of time. You can certainly measure an aeon after it has been completed, and who can say it wouldn't feel like an eternity burning to death? And how could Christ have used any other word so broad to indicate punishment for everyone each individually based and yet include a measurement?

So I ask anyone who has an opinion on this matter to look into the evidence provided, do personal research or ask more questions with an open-mind; take into consideration that our God is a very merciful and loving God, and with that in mind, is there any logical basis that he would torture any of his creations for ever and ever, simply because they didn't accept Christ (regardless of the amount of sins they had or hadn't committed)?

 

[elijah23]

some deny both, others say that its temporary.

I think hell is what we experience after we sin. As long as we sin, we are in hell. When we stop sinning, we are released from hell.

 

[jasoncran]

some deny both, others say that its temporary.

I think hell is what we experience after we sin. As long as we sin, we are in hell. When we stop sinning, we are released from hell.

uh, no.

the bible is clear that sin has its consequences,
death, and subuquent judgement.

no man on earth can really be sin free. only christ did that, and he suffured and paid for our sins at the cross, but this a discussion on that.
the afterlife for the unbeliever is what we are talking about.

 

[watchman F]

some deny both, others say that its temporary.

My first instinct is to say it is both real and eternal. However in reality the Hell that now is will itself be cast into the Lake of fire with all unbelievers. The Lake of fire is the eternal place of damnation not Hell.

 

[shad]

I've made my stance clear in the other thread as you know but I'll summarize it here to have as well

My biggest concern about eternal hell is that it goes against the very nature of our God who personally proclaimed himself as a merciful and loving God.

Micah 7:18
Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

Exodus 34:6
The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth.

As a loving and merciful God how could he torture his creations for an eternity? And how could you enjoy heaven if you knew anyone as suffering an eternity whether it be there choice or not; still doesn't take away from suffering I believe there is punishment and the bible makes that clear; however as the link jasoncran provided shows that the concept of eternal hell is just the result of a mistranslation which has caused more harm than good over the years and allowed non-believers to become a bit hesitant to come to the faith because it paints a false image for our God.

Gehenna (greek word jesus most often used for hell) is a very real place, and it's somewhere noone would want to go to and Christ made this very clear. However the scripture also paints the truth that we can either choose either life in christ, or death in hell. No-where does it indicate eternal punishment; that concept has also come from the mistranslation of the word aeon, which simply means an indefinite period of time. You can certainly measure an aeon after it has been completed, and who can say it wouldn't feel like an eternity burning to death? And how could Christ have used any other word so broad to indicate punishment for everyone each individually based and yet include a measurement?

So I ask anyone who has an opinion on this matter to look into the evidence provided, do personal research or ask more questions with an open-mind; take into consideration that our God is a very merciful and loving God, and with that in mind, is there any logical basis that he would torture any of his creations for ever and ever, simply because they didn't accept Christ (regardless of the amount of sins they had or hadn't committed)?

well said, Amen.

 

[Hawkins]

I've made my stance clear in the other thread as you know but I'll summarize it here to have as well

My biggest concern about eternal hell is that it goes against the very nature of our God who personally proclaimed himself as a merciful and loving God.

The Christian God is only merciful to His sheep, not the wolves. Please show us a single verse that He ever love the wicked.

Other than that, it is a very irresponsible attitude to preach that there is no hell before you know the truth. Because in case that hell exists, you've trapped the souls of those who stand on your side.

 

[jasoncran]

jn:3:16 for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believeth on him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

hmm sounds like the lord loves them sinners enough to die for them.

 

[Hawkins]

jn:3:16 for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believeth on him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

hmm sounds like the lord loves them sinners enough to die for them.

all of us are sinners, but it doesn't mean that all of us are the wicked. Do you see the difference?

Moreover, the Bible never says that all sinners are of His sheep, unless you are going to spin it. So we'd better prepare for the worst, as a more responsible answer.

 

[Hawkins]

First the concept of Law must be understood,

Human legal system works like this. If you break the Law, you'll be sentenced, whether you understand Law or not, whether you read it or not, whether you ever study law itself or not. That's the case.

Similarly God's Law is embedded in your heart and soul. If you offended His Law, you'll be judged and put to jail. If you sinned you'll be driven out of His kingdom, the same as how Adam sinned and being driven out of Eden, and same as how Lucifer the archangel sinned and being driven out of heaven.

God is to save souls instead of bodies here on earth. Here on earth humans are basically not in His Kingdom. That's why the myseries. And everyone requires to pass the final judgment in order to return to God and His kingdom in heaven. And God foresaw that you won't stand a chance in the judgment. Jesus Christ is thus sent and a new covenant is in place which allows you to escape from the Judgment by Law.

If you refuse to take the new covenant, and when you are judged to be sinful, a permanent separation from God will be called. It is said that His sheep will take the new covenant. It is also said that those who aren't His sheep will continue to sin against His Law without repentance.

Moreover, it is said in the Book of Revelation that Satan (who is said to be an ex-archangel) is an accuser accussing people of sinning in order to keep them in jail with him. So good luck, either to find yourself a good lawyer or prepare yourself for the defense.

Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down."

Alternatively, take the Second Covenant as a gift such that the final Judgment by Law can be avoided.

And then the sheol concept,

Sheol is a dark place for human souls to reside, it's not totally equivalent to "grave", else 'grave' is used instead of the strange term 'sheol'. Those Jews following the Oral Torah, including the famous Pharisees believe that humans souls will have to wait in the darkness of sheol for the coming of the final judgment.

The equivalent Greek word for sheol is Hades. Hell can also refer to Hades/sheol, but it bears more meaning then Hades/sheol including the concept of hellfire.

Hellfire is the final state of sheol/Hades after the judgment.

The place where human souls reside;

1 Peter 3:18-20 (NIV)
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

1 Peter 4:6(NIV)
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

Revelation 6:9
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.

Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


The same concept can also be found in other early Jews religious document, the book of Enoch,

Chapter 22:3-4
Then Raphael, one of the Holy Angels who was with me, answered me, and said to me: "These beautiful places are there so that the spirits, the souls of the dead, might be gathered into them. For them they were created; so that here they might gather the souls of the sons of men.
And these places they made, where they will keep them until the day of judgement, and until their appointed time, and that appointed time will be long, until the great judgement comes upon them.

So instead of listening to the candy-coated human explanations, you'd better prepare yourself for the worst. Humans think that they know things but as a matter of fact noone knows what will happen in a permanent separation from God as no one ever experienced such a separation to make a valid conclusion. So the advice here is to best secure your salvation by preparing yourself for the worst!

 

[Guest]

Eternal hell vs eternal life
WmTipton
http://studies.assembly-ministries.org/ ... 78&start=0


Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
To show that 'Hell' is a REAL place whose contents will finally be put into this eternal 'lake of fire' and that that place is 'perpetual'.
We do not teach about torment because we want to get even or revenge but only because we want to warn everyone we can about the truth and save them from going to that terrible place. Don't let false teachings cause you to not take this issue VERY seriously.

Supporting Evidence

1.0
Two eternal destinies

"And when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then will He sit upon His glorious throne.
All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on His left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' "
Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me.' "
Then He will also say to those on the left, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' "Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and we did not minister to You?' "
Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, neither did you do it to Me.' "
And these shall go away into eternal punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life.
(Mat 25:31-46 EMTV)

eternal
G166
???????
ai?nios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).


G2851
???????
kolasis
kol'-as-is
From G2849; penal infliction: - punishment, torment.

No eternal punishment = No eternal life.
From that passage we see two distinct paths, one of which each of us will take depending on whether we are His child or not. It is also clear that the one path leads into the 'fire prepared for the devil and his angels', showing clearly that humans will at some point be put into the same place as Satan himself and the angels that decided to rebel against God with him.
Some use the argument that it doesnt SAY that people will burn forever, but it also doesnt specifically that they wont. Given the evidence as a whole, it seems much more likely that the people put in the lake of fire will face the same consequence that Satan and his angels will who are also there.

2.0
Resurrection to life or death

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(1Co 15:12-22 KJV)

So yes....ALL will be resurrected.
And what more is said about this resurrection ?

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(Joh 5)

ALL will be made alive..resurrected...some to eternal life, some to eternal condemnation.

2.5
The resurrection body

Now this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor can corruption inherit incorruption.
(1Co 15:50 EMTV)

But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what sort of body do they come?" Fool, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow that body that will be, but a bare grain--perhaps wheat or some other grains. But God gives to it a body just as He desired, and to each of the seeds its own body.
All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is a different kind of flesh for men, and another flesh for beasts, another for fish, and another for birds. And there are celestial bodies, and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
So also is the resurrection of the dead.
The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
(1Co 15:35-44 EMTV)

These who reign with Christ during the millennial reign quite apparently DO have their resurrection bodies since death has no power over them and they live thru the millenium with Christ.
Scripture shows that the rest were resurrected afterward and judgment taking place.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev 20:4-15 KJV)

2.9
Paul and other New Testament writers teach eternal torment

Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We are obligated to give thanks to God always for you, brothers, and rightfully so, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all increases towards one another, so that we ourselves are boasting in you among the churches of God about your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, so that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, on behalf of which you also suffer; since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are being afflicted rest along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall pay a penalty--eternal destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might, whenever He comes, in that Day, to be glorified among His saints and to be marveled among all those having believed, because our testimony among you was believed.
(2Th 1:1-10 EMTV)

James mentions hell...

And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. Thus the tongue is set among our members, as that which defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.
(Jas 3:6 EMTV)

Jude preached ET...

as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to fornication and having gone after other flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
(Jud 1:7 EMTV)

Very clearly those vile inhabitants of Sodom WILL be in that place, contrary to the views of some.

3.0
Torment
And here again, these PEOPLE who take the mark.
Notice the word is not 'kolasis' which is an argument used by some.

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
(Rev 14:9-10 KJV)


The sameG846 shall(G2532) drinkG4095 ofG1537 theG3588 wineG3631 of theG3588 wrathG2372 of God,G2316 which is poured outG2767 without mixtureG194 intoG1722 theG3588 cupG4221 of hisG848 indignation;G3709 andG2532 he shall be tormentedG928 withG1722 fireG4442 andG2532 brimstoneG2303 in the presenceG1799 of theG3588 holyG40 angels,G32 andG2532 in the presenceG1799 of theG3588 Lamb:G721
(Rev 14:10 KJV+)

G928
????????
basaniz?
bas-an-id'-zo
From G931; to torture: - pain, toil, torment, toss, vex.

Again, context of the whole SHOWS torment....

For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
(Luk 16:28 KJV)


Luk 16:28 ForG1063 I haveG2192 fiveG4002 brethren;G80 thatG3704 he may testifyG1263 unto them,G846 lestG3363 theyG846 alsoG2532 comeG2064 intoG1519 thisG5126 placeG5117 of torment.G931

G931
???????
basanos
bas'-an-os
Perhaps remotely from the same as G939 (through the notion of going to the bottom); a touch stone, that is, (by analogy) torture: - torment.

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
(Rev 14:11 KJV)

torment
G929
??????????
basanismos
bas-an-is-mos'
From G928; torture: - torment.

And here we have the rich man in hell asking for water to cool his tongue.

and longing to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. And even the dogs came and would lick his sores. And it came to pass that the beggar died, and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom.

The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham from afar, and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am suffering in this flame.'
(Luk 16:21-24 EMTV)

SUFFERING
G3600
??????
oduna?
od-oo-nah'-o
From G3601; to grieve: - sorrow, torment.

The words are clear that the rich man is suffering because of the 'flame' and wants to be cooled.
G5395
????
phlox
flox
From a primary ????? phleg? (to “flash†or “flameâ€); a blaze: - flame (-ing).

G2711
????????
katapsuch?
kat-ap-soo'-kho
From G2596 and G5594; to cool down (off), that is, refresh: - cool.

Sounds like a guy thats pretty hot, no ?
Hell and death have not yet been cast into the lake of fire which is the second death.

 

[ORwarriOR]

You have gone completely against the evidence at hand, especially that of that our God is a merciful God and the law is written in our hearts. This wasn't about sheol, it's about Geheena. I have not once asserted to the fact that the fires of Gaheena do not last as long as heaven does. But I have asserted to the fact that the punishment of souls therein is not eternally regardless of how long it lasts.

An Aeon can be measured after it has been completed. Aeon simply means an immesurable period of time, and Christ certainly wouldn't have been able to measure the period of time for every person sentenced to Gaheena if they all had different sins. You say that breaking the law results in punishment defined by the legal system. I most certainly agree! God will punish souls in Gaheena but he will extinguish them eventually. We have the law written in our hearts and in our minds, and even we have the mercy to put a suffering animal out of it's misery if we come across it. How much less do you think God would feel about one of his very own creations? To claim that God would punish one of his creations eternally when his knowledge of their background, lifetime, and choices they've made throughout far exceeds our own is ludicrous.

How could you enjoy enjoy heaven if you knew souls were suffering for an eternity. Are you saying Ghandi and hilter deserved the exact same fate? They may have both chosen death by not believing in Christ. But are you forgetting:
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28

The parable of lazerus and the rich man clearly indicates that there is no crossing over between the two realms, and that Geheena most certainly sucks. However it does not indicate that the rich man would have never died in there.

 

[westtexas]

here
Gehenna (greek word jesus most often used for hell) is a very real place, and it's somewhere noone would want to go to and Christ made this very clear. However the scripture also paints the truth that we can either choose either life in christ, or death in hell. No-where does it indicate eternal punishment; that concept has also come from the mistranslation of the word aeon, which simply means an indefinite period of time. You can certainly measure an aeon after it has been completed, and who can say it wouldn't feel like an eternity burning to death? And how could Christ have used any other word so broad to indicate punishment for everyone each individually based and yet include a measurement?

I believe that Wm.Tipton covered it well but let me put in my 2 cents as well. The Bible I believe does indicate eternal punishment , or else it does not indicate eternal life, one or the other. Matthew 25:46 in the Greek (as pointed out by Wm.Tipton above) gives the same time frame for punishment as well as for our eternal life.
Kolasin aionion--eternal punishment
zoen aionion--eternal life
If you feel that the concept comes from a mistranlation of the word aeon then how do you justify our eternal life? The same word is used for both punishment and for life. I believe it means exactly what it says--eternal.

Westtexas

 

[jasoncran]

orwarrior, i warned you that we have some powerhouses on the greek and hebrew here that can defend the idea of eternal damnation better then i could.

 

[ORwarriOR]

Also notice:

Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, neither did you do it to Me.' "
And these shall go away into eternal punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life.
(Mat 25:31-46 EMTV)

The punishment for sin is death. Death is eternal. That's the only verse you have that supports your idea. Non-believers are thrown into the lake of fire. I agree on that. Is death not eternal as well? If you extinguish a soul and that is their punishment, does it not stay out eternally?

I'm still asserting to the fact that killing the soul will hurt. Of course burning to death will. How can matthew 10:28 say the soul and body can be destroyed. And everywhere else in the bible indicates the soul that sins shall perish. But the soul that chooses christ shall gain life. Life in hell is still life, a really crummy life but it's still life. Perishing means to perish. To die.

 

[jasoncran]

things can perish very slooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwllllllllllllllllllllllllly. ie some foods take a while to good bad.

shoot last year i had wild bananas that i cut from the tree and it took two months for them to ripen!

 

[Guest]

You have gone completely against the evidence at hand, especially that of that our God is a merciful God and the law is written in our hearts. This wasn't about sheol, it's about Geheena. I have not once asserted to the fact that the fires of Gaheena do not last as long as heaven does. But I have asserted to the fact that the punishment of souls therein is not eternally regardless of how long it lasts.

The immediate problem I see is that the evidence says something a bit different...

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
(Rev 14:11 KJV)

torment
G929
??????????
basanismos
bas-an-is-mos'
From G928; torture: - torment.

"no rest" doesnt seem to agree with any annihilation thought....kwim ?

 

[watchman F]

I've made my stance clear in the other thread as you know but I'll summarize it here to have as well

My biggest concern about eternal hell is that it goes against the very nature of our God who personally proclaimed himself as a merciful and loving God.

The Christian God is only merciful to His sheep, not the wolves. Please show us a single verse that He ever love the wicked.

Other than that, it is a very irresponsible attitude to preach that there is no hell before you know the truth. Because in case that hell exists, you've trapped the souls of those who stand on your side.

Amen the teaching that Hell does not exist is at best irresponsible.

 

[Guest]

Also notice:

Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, neither did you do it to Me.' "
And these shall go away into eternal punishment,
but the righteous into eternal life.
(Mat 25:31-46 EMTV)

The punishment for sin is death. Death is eternal. That's the only verse you have that supports your idea. Non-believers are thrown into the lake of fire. I agree on that. Is death not eternal as well? If you extinguish a soul and that is their punishment, does it not stay out eternally?

But the problem is youre using the word death in a way as to define it as YOU want to define it. Scripture doesnt use it in the same way as far as Eternal Torment is concerned.
'death'....ie the 'Second Death' doesnt seem to be any like simply passing out of existence.
To the contrary, it seems that souls will be very much 'alive'....having been resurrected to this eternal 'death'....and quite aware of their environment.