is hell real? and if so is it eternal?

[ORwarriOR]

Would you give up your eternity in paradise for suffering souls or are you more concerned with your own happiness?

here we go with the Red Herrings and Strawmen again.
Stick to the topic, please.

Answer the question. Are you more concerned with your own happiness with a total disregard to eternal suffering of MILLIONS, or do you actually love your neighbor as you love yourself? Would you sacrifice yourself like Christ did, or would you stick with your eternal riches?

 

[Guest]

Man dies once and faces judgment. When you die that is death. The second death is after you face your judgment and are thrown into the lake of fire to suffer your punishment and then have your soul extinguished for an eternity.

Sorry but that doesnt line up with Gods word...
They will be tormented perpetually and get 'no rest'....

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
(Rev 14:9-11 KJV)


torment
G929
??????????
basanismos
bas-an-is-mos'
From G928; torture: - torment.

The second death is still a death even if it is a painful one. You can throw out all concepts of justice and mercy if you want to keep believing in eternal torture.

what I throw out is your unsupported opinion and accept Gods WORD in the mattter.

But even if this was true. I would gladly exchange my eternity in paradise and have my soul extinguished in exchange for the "true death" (since you want to redefine the meaning of death for the second death) of the millions of souls who are suffering, because I just couldn't enjoy heaven if that was the case.

Great....now get back to the topic.

Wrong.
Its going against YOUR view of who YOU want God to be....

sorry chap, Ive proven my case here

My God LOVES justice and mercy. Eternal torture is not justice OR mercy.

in YOUR opinion....

 

[Guest]

Answer the question. Are you more concerned with your own happiness with a total disregard to eternal suffering of MILLIONS, or do you actually love your neighbor as you love yourself? Would you sacrifice yourself like Christ did, or would you stick with your eternal riches?

Friend YOU dont tell me what to answer and what not to....is that unclear in any way ?

It isnt relevant to what GODS WORD TEACHES about ET doctrine and therefore isnt relevant to the TOPIC here.

We understand one another ?

 

[ORwarriOR]

You keep calling me chap as if you see me as inferior or something just because I want to live my life selflessly and love true mercy just as my God has required of me. Eternal torture is not mercy, no matter how you look at it. I don't know about you but if there were a bunch of burning people outside my window I'd do whatever I could to help them out. Mercy is not an opinion, it's an act of compassion and pity. How can you not pity millions of suffering souls? That's just sick. Let alone how do you think your God who has built the idea of mercy into your mind would think of it? It's not a matter of opinion, we feel mercy for living creatures for a reason, and to think that people would suffer for an eternity just because they don't agree with your beliefs is an absolutely horrible idea. If you think you could enjoy heaven while they suffered for an eternity completely writes mercy out of your mind, and if we're supposed to be spending an eternity with the very person that taught us the concept of mercy, then it goes against ALL LOGIC, not just opinion.

So in turn I ask you. What's more important to you, your eternal happiness, or the suffering of millions? In the unlikely event that peole would suffer for an eternity, and you live your life as a true christian and strive to be like Christ; would you or would you not sacrifice your soul in eternal happiness to save millions upon millions upon millions of suffering souls? Because if you wouldn't, then you don't love your neighbor as you love yourself. You don't even have to answer me, if you're ashamed of your answer. Just dwell on those words.

 

[Guest]

You keep calling me chap as if you see me as inferior or something

not meant that way at all....

just because I want to live my life selflessly and love true mercy just as my God has required of me.

No one is telling you how to live your life.
Just dont expect us to buy your unscriptural fallacy that you choose to believe.
No one is forcing you to post in this thread

Eternal torture is not mercy, no matter how you look at it.

By YOUR definition of mercy and in YOUR limited perceptions.
GODS ways are not our ways....WE dont get to decide how HE defines love and mercy.
What we CAN do, however, is ACCEPT His truth as He has given it.

 

[Guest]

I don't know about you but if there were a bunch of burning people outside my window I'd do whatever I could to help them out.

Most of us would.
Not relevant to the topic, however, since WE arent the worlds messiah and cannot save anyone from eternal flame....

Mercy is not an opinion, it's an act of compassion and pity. How can you not pity millions of suffering souls? That's just sick. Let alone how do you think your God who has built the idea of mercy into your mind would think of it? It's not a matter of opinion, we feel mercy for living creatures for a reason, and to think that people would suffer for an eternity just because they don't agree with your beliefs is an absolutely horrible idea. If you think you could enjoy heaven while they suffered for an eternity completely writes mercy out of your mind, and if we're supposed to be spending an eternity with the very person that taught us the concept of mercy, then it goes against ALL LOGIC, not just opinion.

Its YOUR opinion that God sees things as YOU do...apparently He doesnt.

So in turn I ask you. What's more important to you, your eternal happiness, or the suffering of millions? In the unlikely event that peole would suffer for an eternity, and you live your life as a true christian and strive to be like Christ; would you or would you not sacrifice your soul in eternal happiness to save millions upon millions upon millions of suffering souls? Because if you wouldn't, then you don't love your neighbor as you love yourself.
You don't even have to answer me, if you're ashamed of your answer. Just dwell on those words.

you can lay off the shrouded personal attacks gent. You are no messiah, nor am I. ...nor am I ashamed of any response I have to offer on ANY topic you can come up with.
Im simply not going to allow you to take this down an EMOTIONAL and UNSCRIPTURAL path.

 

[ORwarriOR]

You keep calling me chap as if you see me as inferior or something

not meant that way at all....

just because I want to live my life selflessly and love true mercy just as my God has required of me.

No one is telling you how to live your life.
Just dont expect us to buy your unscriptural fallacy that you choose to believe.
No one is forcing you to post in this thread

[quote:tzhobv8f]Eternal torture is not mercy, no matter how you look at it.

By YOUR definition of mercy and in YOUR limited perceptions.
GODS ways are not our ways....WE dont get to decide how HE defines love and mercy.
What we CAN do, however, is ACCEPT His truth as He has given it.[/quote:tzhobv8f]

Those aren't truths. Those are man-made doctrines. You have your mind so blinded with darkness it grieves me to the very depths of my soul that you can't even answer a simple question. Almost all of the apostles ended up martyrs. They tried to live like Christ. If you can't answer that question, or are unwilling to answer it then I obviously know the answer. And since that's the case then I think you need to re-evaluate who Christ really was, and what it means to be a Christian. Goodnight. I will pray for you. You have very strong faith obviously and God bless you for that; but eternal hell is not mercy no matter how you look at it. There's no opinion that could justify it.

Ending the suffering of millions upon millions in exchange for my own eternal happiness would be worth more to me than any heaven. I know that's not the case though, and I know I wouldn't have to face that decision, but if I did... I'd gladly become a martyr.

 

[Guest]

Those aren't truths. Those are man-made doctrines.

Sorry friend but youve been given HIS WORD in the matter. You'll have to come to terms with that eventually. They always do....

 

[Guest]

You have your mind so blinded with darkness

....yawn...
wake me when you actually crack open a bible and say something worth reading

it grieves me to the very depths of my soul that you can't even answer a simple question.

No it doesnt....but you put on a good drama anyway.

 

[Guest]

Almost all of the apostles ended up martyrs.

Not relevant to the topic of THIS thread.

They tried to live like Christ.

Not relevant to the topic of THIS thread.

If you can't answer that question, or are unwilling to answer it then I obviously know the answer.

Sorry chap, but you were given a factual response.
But I guess since you so willingly pervert and ignore GODs words, then doing the same with mine isnt that big a deal for you...

 

[Guest]

And since that's the case then I think you need to re-evaluate who Christ really was, and what it means to be a Christian.

No, YOU need to READ a bible for once and stop pretending like you know who the God of scriptures is. Its clear that you dont know the God you worship

Goodnight.

You too

I will pray for you.

Please dont waste your time if its to get me to change my mind....I wont.

You have very strong faith obviously and God bless you for that;

He has left me without any choice in the matter.

but eternal hell is not mercy no matter how you look at it.

Sure it is...His word proves it conclusively.

Ending the suffering of millions upon millions in exchange for my own eternal happiness would be worth more to me than any heaven. I know that's not the case though, and I know I wouldn't have to face that decision, but if I did... I'd gladly become a martyr.

You have fun with all that.

The topic....get back to it please...

 

[shad]

Warrior,

There is no sense responding to Wmtipton. He has no respect for his opponents; all he does is belittling. He does not understand that Christianity is all about God and Jesus' love. Just ignore him.

 

[ORwarriOR]

Warrior,

There is no sense responding to Wmtipton. He has no respect for his opponents; all he does is belittling. He does not understand that Christianity is all about God and Jesus' love. Just ignore him.

I won't any more. I'll stop posting in this thread. However I am going to keep trying to change the face of Christianity by taking every chance I get to disprove this sadistic theory. It's doing a big injustice to my God and it makes non-believers think so much less of us. I know this as a fact because I was almost reluctant to repent because my grandmother (who not even our own family members think all that highly of because of her extremism; I still love her though ) was pressuring me into it with this horrible doctrine, and I ALMOST thought I was making a mistake by doing so thinking "What kind of God am I repenting to?". But after doing a lot of research my mind is at ease so much, and if anything it makes my love for God grow immensely, and in turn it allows me to share that love with others. The question I asked is a very good one of self-reflection. Christ requires us to live selflessly, and if a Christian who believes in this doctrine isn't willing to give up their eternal happiness in exchange for the release of suffering souls, because they think their happiness is more important than millions of people suffering, then it's easy to see what kind of person they really are, and how much they really value selflessness and living for others. And if that's a case, can they really even truly call themselves a disciple of Christ?

To WM:

I do not mean this is an insult at all either, but Christ did tell us to rebuke others for their sins, and our words are a reflection of our soul. Essentially what wm is saying is "You don't agree with me and take my word for truth so you must be a blind fool."

But what I'm trying to say is "You don't agree with me because you're not willing to live totally like Christ."

If you continue to belittle me it's only making it all the more obvious of the darkness that resides in your soul due to this sadistic and selfish doctrine.

James 3:9-16 (NIV)

9With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. 10Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. 11Can both fresh water and salt[a] water flow from the same spring? 12My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.

13Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. 16For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.

You're cursing me for trying to let myself be shaped completely in God's image... I am by no means cursing you, I am just trying to rebuke you. I have a lot of respect for your faith either way, and I just want you to be able to clear out the darkness and let your light shine. I'll leave you to your own devices now, just please think about it.

 

[Guest]

Warrior,

There is no sense responding to Wmtipton. He has no respect for his opponents; all he does is belittling. He does not understand that Christianity is all about God and Jesus' love. Just ignore him.

Please.
YOU are one of the reasons I end up getting the way I do.
Were it not for your type who constantly makes all the personal jabs where you have no right to do so, then playing off like you dont, Id be able to contain myself a bit better.
Read your post above and tell me honestly there is no personal attack there. There is, and so YOU are the instigator here..

 

[ORwarriOR]

Warrior,

There is no sense responding to Wmtipton. He has no respect for his opponents; all he does is belittling. He does not understand that Christianity is all about God and Jesus' love. Just ignore him.

Please.
YOU are one of the reasons I end up getting the way I do.
Were it not for your type who constantly makes all the personal jabs where you have no right to do so, then playing off like you dont, Id be able to contain myself a bit better.
Read your post above and tell me honestly there is no personal attack there. There is, and so YOU are the instigator here..

It is by no means a personal attack. I just see sin in the way you're behaving, and I want to help you. Selfish behavior and thoughts are sins regardless of how you want to look at it. Please just consider the facts and let your love of God shine. God Bless, and I hope you have a good day

 

[Guest]

I won't any more. I'll stop posting in this thread.

no you wont. The overwhelming obsession to be right and prove your agenda will drive you to keep coming back again and again.

However I am going to keep trying to change the face of Christianity

Christianity doesnt need any more rebels or revolutionaries gent. Weve been doing fine for two millenia without your 'change' (huh..sounds like Obama).

by taking every chance I get to disprove this sadistic theory.

Thats quite a laugh because you havent disproven anything here....

 

[Guest]

It is by no means a personal attack. I just see sin in the way you're behaving, and I want to help you. Selfish behavior and thoughts are sins regardless of how you want to look at it. Please just consider the facts and let your love of God shine. God Bless, and I hope you have a good day

No one here needs your help, gent.
And keep out of shad and my discourse in the matter because YOU have not been HERE to see what has gone on.
Shad constantly provokes, just as he did even a moderator in the last few days, by making personal assaults and then playing innocent.

 

[elijah23]

uh, no.

the bible is clear that sin has its consequences,
death, and subuquent judgement.

no man on earth can really be sin free. only christ did that, and he suffured and paid for our sins at the cross, but this a discussion on that.
the afterlife for the unbeliever is what we are talking about.

I could be wrong, but I think I’m probably right. Either way, you want to repent of your sin, right?

 

[Guest]

It's doing a big injustice to my God

WRong.
YOUR LYING fallacy is what does injustice to Gods TRUTH !

and it makes non-believers think so much less of us.

Sorry but we DONT CATER to unbelievers as far as compromising Gods TRUTH to get along with them.
They either are able to accept it or they arent.
Youre apparently the type who thinks christianity is a product to be solicited and so we're to make sales pitches to move that product.
Id say youd better open a bible some day and find the truth.
God does NOT compromise His truth, gent....either we accept AS IS....or we dont....

 

[Guest]

I know this as a fact

no, you dont.
Your 'facts' have been torn down in this thread so far.....so very clearly they ARENT facts except in your own mind.

because I was almost reluctant to repent because my grandmother (who not even our own family members think all that highly of because of her extremism;

So you didnt want GODS truth...you wanted a truth YOU could agree with.
That sounds about right...a lot of people come to a false christ thru a false gospel....and eventually one of two things happen.
Either they mature and they finally accept the truth...or they fall away when they realize they cant get away from that truth.
So which will YOU be ?