We are not saved by sinful acts either.However, we are not saved by righteous acts
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Strengthening families through biblical principles.
Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.
Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.
We are not saved by sinful acts either.However, we are not saved by righteous acts
A kid who steals s cookie is destined to Hell. How crazy is that.Both are destined to damnation but there is a solution - salvation through Christ.
We may not be saved by righteous acts, but unrighteous acts do betray our hate of God.Hopeful:
I believe you misunderstood the question and Jesus’ message. You wrote, “It is fair, as anyone who wants to do righteously will be given that chance.” However, we are not saved by righteous acts. We are saved through knowledge of and faith in Jesus. Jesus said that “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). He also said that “No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6). A person who does righteous works but does not know and believe in Jesus will perish. That does not seem fair to me. I think a merit-based system where those who do righteous deeds are saved would be more fair because people have an inherent sense of right and wrong, but it does not seem fair that salvation would be reserved to those who know and believe in Jesus, especially given the fact that Christians have done a very poor job of preaching the Gospel. More than 2 billion people never even heard of Jesus. It does not seem fair that none of them will be saved.
As a nation, we wouldn't get healed would we?
A kid who steals s cookie is destined to Hell. How crazy is that.
This is an excellent question. Often times many may wonder, "What about those people in the middle of nowhere that have never heard about God or Jesus?"
Those that lived before Jesus from what I understand were in a "holding place"/Sheol after they passed away. (The Old Testament meaning of Sheol was used differently than the New Testament that uses the word for "Hades"). Before the death of Jesus, Sheol was a place where the souls were kept. Between this Paradise and Hell where everyone was, there was what we see in Luke 16:26 described as a "great chasm" that separated the eternal life/peace and eternal death/suffering. The saints of the Old and New Testament are enjoying their reward with our Heavenly Father and they have been for a long time.
For those that have never heard, there are some interesting Bible verses about this:
Romans 1:20 NIV:
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Remember, that God is a righteous judge and his judgement is as fair as it gets. We must also remember that Jesus is patient:
2 Peter 3:9 NIV:
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
He doesn't want to see anyone not repent in their life. We see God's creation and His power around us daily so we are without excuse. It has been said that as people we naturally know if there is a painting then there must be a painter. If there's a building, there must've been architects, engineers, and construction workers. Since there is God's creation, it would be natural for us to consider, "Where is the creator?"
God's word is clear that those who do not believe in Jesus will perish. One must believe in Jesus to fully accept God. As Romans mentions, we have no excuse. It's a choice that we all make.
Abraham did not know of Jesus and did not have faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior.
Greetings! If you are sincere about understand this. (I choose to believe that you are)
Find your Bible and turn to the book of Romans chapter two.
It talks about those on earth having heard.
And those who have not heard about the Word. (Law)
Hope that helps. It should
Greetings! If you are sincere about understand this. (I choose to believe that you are)
Find your Bible and turn to the book of Romans chapter two.
It talks about those on earth having heard.
And those who have not heard about the Word. (Law)
Hope that helps. It should
We are saved by righteousness. But not only God can make us righteous through Christ.Link1983 wrote:
“Find your Bible and turn to the book of Romans chapter two.
It talks about those on earth having heard.
And those who have not heard about the Word. (Law)”
I do not see the relevance of Romans 2 to my question or to Jaybird’s comment. Romans 2 does not discuss the damnation of those who never hear of Jesus. Rather, it discusses those who judge others for doing the same things that they do and it states that what is key is not whether a person is a Jew or is outwardly circumcised, but whether a person obeys the law and whether his heart has been circumcised by the Spirit, not by the written code.
Rom 2:26 states that “if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?” However, both righteousness and circumcision are irrelevant to salvation. What is key is faith in and surrender to Jesus. Also, if you continue reading to Romans 3, it makes evident that our righteousness is of no avail, because we are all sinners:
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
Rom 3:10 As it is written: "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS; THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS AFTER GOD.
Rom 3:12 THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE; THEY HAVE TOGETHER BECOME UNPROFITABLE; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, NO, NOT ONE."
…
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
The chapters you refer to also answers the question.Link1983 wrote:
“Find your Bible and turn to the book of Romans chapter two.
It talks about those on earth having heard.
And those who have not heard about the Word. (Law)”
I do not see the relevance of Romans 2 to my question or to Jaybird’s comment. Romans 2 does not discuss the damnation of those who never hear of Jesus. Rather, it discusses those who judge others for doing the same things that they do and it states that what is key is not whether a person is a Jew or is outwardly circumcised, but whether a person obeys the law and whether his heart has been circumcised by the Spirit, not by the written code.
Rom 2:26 states that “if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?” However, both righteousness and circumcision are irrelevant to salvation. What is key is faith in and surrender to Jesus. Also, if you continue reading to Romans 3, it makes evident that our righteousness is of no avail, because we are all sinners:
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
Rom 3:10 As it is written: "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS; THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS AFTER GOD.
Rom 3:12 THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE; THEY HAVE TOGETHER BECOME UNPROFITABLE; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, NO, NOT ONE."
…
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Everyone deserves hell. Jesus didn't have to come and die.
Could it be those who lived and never heard of Jesus were not of the elect and got the punishment they deserved?
I do not believe Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Job knew Jesus, the man, the Son of God. They had a relationship with God, the Godhead, which Jesus, as a member of the Trinity, is a part of, but they did not knew Jesus personally because He had not yet come.Do you think Job, or Abraham knew Jesus?
I do not believe Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Job knew Jesus, the man, the Son of God. They had a relationship with God, the Godhead, which Jesus, as a member of the Trinity, is a part of, but they did not knew Jesus personally because He had not yet come.
Because they rejected God, and did not want to believe.Then why does the bible speak of some people being tossed into the lake of fire?
for_his_glory cites Rom 10:13-15, which states:Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
From the time of Adam and Eve God's word has always been known, but yet many choose to ignore turning a deaf ear to what God's Prophets in the OT and Jesus and His Apostles taught in the NT. Faith comes by hearing, but not everyone will receive. God's righteous judgement is fair as those who refuse to accept Him by faith have already brought damnation unto themselves.
.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;for_his_glory cites Rom 10:13-15, which states:
Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE Lord SHALL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent?
These verses make it clear that a person who has not heard of the Lord cannot believe in the Lord, and a person who does not believe in the Lord cannot call on the Lord. How then can a person call on the name of the Lord and be saved if they have not heard of the Lord?
For this reason, Paul calls Christians to preach the Gospel. Similarly, Jesus calls on believes to “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations” (Mat 28:19). To equip them for this task, Jesus promised his followers that He would give them the Holy Spirit to be witnesses to the “end of the earth” (Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth”).
Therefore, Christians have an enormous responsibility on their shoulders. They are to preach the Gospel to the “end of the earth,” for anyone who does not hear of the Lord cannot believed in and call on the Lord and be saved.
If anything, Romans 10 restates the doctrine that salvation comes through faith, and those who do not know of and believe in Jesus will not be saved. Therefore, those who die not knowing of Christ will not be saved.
for_his_glory wrote:
From the time of Adam and Eve God's word has always been known, but yet many choose to ignore turning a deaf ear to what God's Prophets in the OT and Jesus and His Apostles taught in the NT.
I disagree with this. There are many nations in both the OT and in the modern era that never heard what God’s prophets or what Jesus and His Apostles taught. Generally speaking, God sent prophets to only the Israelites. These prophets included Moses, Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea and Joel. For sure, God did enter into some covenants with non-Israelites, including Adam and Noah, and God even sometimes used non-Israelite prophets, such as Balaam, to speak through. However, most nations never heard God’s word in the pre-Christian era. Even today, in the Christian era, 2 billion people, which is more than a quarter of the world’s population, has never even heard of Jesus. So it is inaccurate to state that all people have always known God’s word and those who ignore His word have turned a deaf ear.
In regards to the End, I thought I heard there is only one small island left to tell about the gospel. A missionary tried to reach them a couple years ago and was killed. I could be totally wrong about who in the world has heard ?Please read Matt 28:18-20 carefully. Is there a continuing need to send missionaries?