Is it fair that only those who heard of and believe in Jesus can be saved?

[humble soul]

However, we are not saved by righteous acts

We are not saved by sinful acts either.

 

[humble soul]

Both are destined to damnation but there is a solution - salvation through Christ.

A kid who steals s cookie is destined to Hell. How crazy is that.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Just have to remember that no matter how fair or unfair life in Christ seems, He was here first and it's His plan, and we are His to do what He wishes, as He owns us!!!

My kids used to complain about things not being fair as they grew up, and they were raise hearing from me the same old thing that there was no such thing as "FAIR, and there isn't.

Try living 77 years like me, and you'll find out when health problems start to be a close friend. You'll find out what doesn't seem fair - LOL

My name is OLIGOS

 

[K2CHRIST]

I see where the author of the OP is coming from, but He does not know who Jesus Christ is.

He concludes that only those after Jesus Christ's arrival in the flesh can be saved, because to believe in Him He must have had to exist. That might make sense if He came into existence them, but the Christ is eternal. Indeed it is written that all things came into existence through Him, so He was before the sun, moon, and stars.

John, starts off his gospel with:" In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God." And John goes on to write the the Word became flesh and dwelt among them.

The Christ had a name before we started knowing Him as Jesus (God's salvation). That name is revealed to those who had not already figured it out in Rev 19:13 - "He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God."

If we go back and do a search in the Bible we find out that He, the Christ, was alive and active long before He took on flesh. He was then known as 'the word of God' or 'the word of the Lord' - which is the same thing. You first see this in Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”

So the Christ (Jesus) appeared 'to Abram in a vision saying' - That is to say the the One we call Jesus Christ came and talked to Abram. They got to know each other. In fact it is written that Abram believed in Him way back then!

Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

This passage is a fundamental passage to Christianity. Surely a "righteous" person will get into heaven, but none of us are actually righteous! All have sinned (Rom 3:23) Yet, according to the above passage, a person (even one before the coming of Christ) could be counted as being 'righteous' because they hear from the Christ (the Lord) and believe in Him.

Of course there was some covenant involving a sacrifice:

Gen 15:9 So He said to him, “Bring Me a three year old heifer, and a three year old female goat, and a three year old ram, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.”

Still - the statement of "righteousness" was made before the sacrifice and was not made as a condition. So it would stand regardless of the Law. The Law was handed down to a people to had come to the mountain of God and said, "Let not God speak to us". Which is to say they did not listen to the Christ and believe in Him, but instead put their faith into prophets like Moses to get words from the Lord for them. Thus they got the Law, and a sacrifices was needed. So, the Christ, whose name is "The Word of God" took on flesh and became the perfect sacrifice for us. So we call Him Jesus - which means God's salvation.

Still, He has always been called the Word of God, and there is a reason for that. The reason is simple. He has the words of God for us personally. In fact, He owns the words of God!

John 16:15 “All things that the Father has are Mine;...."

"All things" would include the very words of God! And if we look at the rest of the above verse we read that the Holy Spirit takes the things which are His (the words of God) and gives them to us

John 16:15 "...therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

So just like it was recorded about Abram way back in Gen 15, we can pick up our Lord Jesus Christ is a vision and hear from Him via the Holy Spirit communicating to our spirit. We find out that indeed the Word of God (Jesus Christ - not your Bible) is still alive and active today.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active

Today we tend to call the Holy Scriptures the Word of God because the authors of the Bible heard from Jesus Christ as the Word of God and they wrote down what He told them. Yet those writings are not personal to you and so are not Jesus Christ talking to you personally, like He did with Abram. Still, Jesus Christ is still called "The Word of God" as seen in the last book of the Bible (Rev 19:13) because He is still talking to people personally. His sheep hear His voice and the believe in Him, just like Abram did way back then.

We see little cartoons with a little demon no one shoulder and a little angel on the other, with a person in the middle trying to decide which way he wants to go. That person might choose something in the middle, and we often do. We have our own ability to think. We know what is bad and we know what is good so who are we going to listen to?

Sometimes we read about a murderer who confesses that he was hearing voices telling him to kill people. He choose to listen to evil. Sometimes we read about a missionary who claims to have heard from God and made incredible sacrifices, so didn't he hear from God as much as the murderer heard from a demon? Sadly, more often we don't listen very much with our spiritual ears. Perhaps we pick up something in us and decide to go to church on Sunday. Then during the week we make little lies and discerptions, and so we don't want to actually seek out the Lord. We choose to believe that He is not there with us, so we don't hear with our spiritual ears.

So of many it was written: (Mat 13:15 & Acts 28:17)

FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,
WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES,
OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'


I wonder what would happen if we all turned back to Him and indeed started listening to Him instead of closing our eyes and pointing fingers, accusing, protesting, and all the little others things we people sometimes do? As a nation, we wouldn't get healed would we?

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful:

I believe you misunderstood the question and Jesus’ message. You wrote, “It is fair, as anyone who wants to do righteously will be given that chance.” However, we are not saved by righteous acts. We are saved through knowledge of and faith in Jesus. Jesus said that “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). He also said that “No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6). A person who does righteous works but does not know and believe in Jesus will perish. That does not seem fair to me. I think a merit-based system where those who do righteous deeds are saved would be more fair because people have an inherent sense of right and wrong, but it does not seem fair that salvation would be reserved to those who know and believe in Jesus, especially given the fact that Christians have done a very poor job of preaching the Gospel. More than 2 billion people never even heard of Jesus. It does not seem fair that none of them will be saved.

We may not be saved by righteous acts, but unrighteous acts do betray our hate of God.
As you mentioned, we have an inherent sense of right and wrong, and that is what those who have not yet heard of Jesus will be judged by.
If they truly want to know God, God won't hide from them.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

As a nation, we wouldn't get healed would we?

Neither did the children of the exodus with Moses.
They never saw the promised land as a nation.

Kinda like Matthew 7:14 where "FEW" will enter the kingdom of God (The other promised land), but that's a huge other topic.
Mt name is OLIGOS

 

[K2CHRIST]

A kid who steals s cookie is destined to Hell. How crazy is that.

Who said the cookie was stolen???

I appreciate the point you are trying to make, but we are saved by faith and faith comes from hearing a word from the Lord.

So what is missed in the hypothetical is God!

All things were created through Him, which would include any cookies, hypothetical or not. Still, there is an accuser and we need to make sure we are listening to the Lord and not the accuser.

So if the child (no matter how old) believed in the Lord our God, that child would have asked the Lord before getting the cookie. After all, all things belong to God. So the question of hearing and faith is the question of whether the hypothetical cookie was stolen or not.

That is to say that the child does not go to hell because he ate a cookie. Are not cookies made to be eaten by kids? The child, like the rest of us, would go to hell because he did not believe God existed so he did not ask God whether it was ok to have that cookie or not!!!

Which brings us back to the question of "Who said the cookie was stolen?"

Paul took all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ. He did that because he believed. The unbeliever does not take his thoughts captive to God, and that will get a person to hell. Not for one offense, because God is full of mercy and grace, but for a lifetime of not believing God exists. Day after day a person chooses to not believe while day after day for a life time the Lord stands at the door trying to get our attention, but we refuse to believe and so the next time will be spent in a hot place.

Hell was never for one offense like taking a cookie, it is for a lifetime of rebellion against a God who loves us soooo much and He took on flesh and went to the cross at the hands of people who would not listen to Him during their entire lifetime. He loves us soooo much that He stands at the door of our heart knocking with His voice.

Rev 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

He loves us all soooo very much. But who will listen. If the child listens, believes, and open up the door to his heart to Jesus then they will dine together and possibly on that cookie that he wanted.

 

[jmt356]

This is an excellent question. Often times many may wonder, "What about those people in the middle of nowhere that have never heard about God or Jesus?"

Those that lived before Jesus from what I understand were in a "holding place"/Sheol after they passed away. (The Old Testament meaning of Sheol was used differently than the New Testament that uses the word for "Hades"). Before the death of Jesus, Sheol was a place where the souls were kept. Between this Paradise and Hell where everyone was, there was what we see in Luke 16:26 described as a "great chasm" that separated the eternal life/peace and eternal death/suffering. The saints of the Old and New Testament are enjoying their reward with our Heavenly Father and they have been for a long time.

For those that have never heard, there are some interesting Bible verses about this:

Romans 1:20 NIV:
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


Remember, that God is a righteous judge and his judgement is as fair as it gets. We must also remember that Jesus is patient:

2 Peter 3:9 NIV:
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.


He doesn't want to see anyone not repent in their life. We see God's creation and His power around us daily so we are without excuse. It has been said that as people we naturally know if there is a painting then there must be a painter. If there's a building, there must've been architects, engineers, and construction workers. Since there is God's creation, it would be natural for us to consider, "Where is the creator?"

God's word is clear that those who do not believe in Jesus will perish. One must believe in Jesus to fully accept God. As Romans mentions, we have no excuse. It's a choice that we all make.

Luminous_Rose:

I do not know what Abraham’s bosom is, but I do not believe we can say that Abraham is with the Father. Jesus is clear that no one comes to the father but through faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior. Abraham did not know of Jesus and did not have faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior.

I believe Romans 1:20 (Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse) is talking about those who “knew God” (see Rom 1:21: although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened), but nonetheless rejected Him. I am talking about those who do not know God and thus who do not have a chance at salvation. I do not believe that we can read Romans 1:20 as stating that all people know that Jesus is Lord and Savior and so those who reject Him do so out of rebellion. In reality, about 2 billion people, which is more than a quarter of the world’s population, do not even know who Jesus is. They are the unreached. Romans 1:20 cannot be stating that these people know that Jesus is the son of God and are thus without excuse on the day of judgment when they are found to not have surrendered to Him. If everyone knew Jesus was the Son of God, then we would have solved the problem I am posing because all of these people would have everlasting life because they “believe” in Jesus as required by John 3:16 to have eternal life. In reality, many people do not know of Jesus, and of those that do know of him, most reject him as the son of God. To suggest that all people know Jesus is the Son of God and are thus without excuse is a misreading of Rom 1:20.

I think human reason can lead us to the conclusion that God is real. Perhaps one can say that a person who rejects the existence of God is without excuse. But human reason cannot lead us to the conclusion that Jesus is the Son of God. We cannot expect a person who never heard of Jesus to somehow come to the conclusion that there was a man named Jesus who was the Son of God and if he fails to come to that conclusion, he is without excuse. That is unreasonable and not supported by any Scripture. In contrast, Romans 10 makes very clear that people cannot be expected to know and have faith in Jesus unless preachers are sent to them to teach them of Jesus:

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
…
Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent?

It seems unfair to me that the billions of people who never heard of Jesus will perish.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Abraham did not know of Jesus and did not have faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Abraham did know Jesus Christ!

We don't tend to really understand who Jesus is according to the Bible.

The Christ has gone by many names in the Bible! We of course call Him Jesus. Why?

Well, we call Him Jesus because He is our savior. Jesus means God's salvation, so Jesus is an appropriate name to call the Christ. Yet before the cross He was still around and doing things. Indeed it is written that all things were created through Him. It is also written that He is the Alpha and Omega, or First and Last. That is because He is eternal. Yet speaking of eternal the person who wrote the gospel of John (mostly like John) and who indeed knew the Christ personally in the flesh as "Jesus" started off his gospel by not calling Jesus Christ, "Jesus"!

John wrote: Jn 1:1,2 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

So "Word" was the name that John, a person who apparently was a very close disciple of Jesus didn't start by thinking of Jesus as "Jesus" but as "the Word"!! And this matches up with the last book in the Bible which was more certainly written by John!

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood and His name is called "The Word of God"

So John who certainly knew Jesus Christ personally as "Jesus" goes out of his way to make it clear that the name of the Christ is "The Word of God" - and both at the beginning of his gospel and in his writing a Revelation of Christ.

So what about Abraham knowing Jesus Christ? Did Abraham know the Christ, whose name is called "The Word of God"?

Gen 15:1
After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying,
“Do not fear, Abram,
I am a shield to you;
Your reward shall be very great.”

Since His name is called "The Word of God" then couldn't we just replace "the word of the LORD" with "Jesus Christ and that verse still make sense?

So it could read - "After these thing Jesus Christ came to Abram in a vision, saying...

Indeed Jesus Christ was the One who came to Abram and spoke to him. And not Abram only, because we see that same thing through out the Old Testament.

1 Sam 15:10 Then the word of the LORD (Jesus Christ) came to Samuel, saying,

1 Kings 6:10 Now the word of the LORD (Jesus Christ) came to Solomon saying,

2 Kings 20:4 Before Isaiah had gone out of the middle court, the word of the LORD (Jesus Christ) came to him, saying,

2 Ch 11:2 But the word of the LORD (Jesus Chirst) came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,

I can keep going on and on, because all over the Old Testament we read where "the word of the Lord" was going around talking to people!

John wrote the book of Revelation to help reveal to us who Jesus Christ is. He is the King. He is the Word. He is the Alpha and Omega - but how well are we at applying that Revelation?

The Word (the Christ) came down out of heaven and took on flesh - He did not just come into existence when He showed up as a baby! I am not sure we are making it clear who Jesus Christ is when we tell people about Him.

 

[jmt356]

Greetings! If you are sincere about understand this. (I choose to believe that you are)
Find your Bible and turn to the book of Romans chapter two.
It talks about those on earth having heard.
And those who have not heard about the Word. (Law)
Hope that helps. It should

Jaybird wrote:

“IMO the way of Jesus is living the way Jesus lived, following that example, it has nothing to do with what temple you pray at. if people think it means hearing about Jesus and making a proclamation, it also means anyone born outside of Christianity gets punished in hell because of where they were born.”

I disagree with this. Nothing in the Bible suggests that anyone born outside of Christianity gets punished in hell because of where they were born, nor does the Bible suggest that salvation is based on where a person is born. Salvation comes through hearing the Gospel and believing in Jesus:

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

The Bible does make clear that a person who never hears of Jesus or who hears of Jesus but does not have faith in Him as the Son of God will perish.

 

[jmt356]

Greetings! If you are sincere about understand this. (I choose to believe that you are)
Find your Bible and turn to the book of Romans chapter two.
It talks about those on earth having heard.
And those who have not heard about the Word. (Law)
Hope that helps. It should

Link1983 wrote:

“Find your Bible and turn to the book of Romans chapter two.
It talks about those on earth having heard.
And those who have not heard about the Word. (Law)”

I do not see the relevance of Romans 2 to my question or to Jaybird’s comment. Romans 2 does not discuss the damnation of those who never hear of Jesus. Rather, it discusses those who judge others for doing the same things that they do and it states that what is key is not whether a person is a Jew or is outwardly circumcised, but whether a person obeys the law and whether his heart has been circumcised by the Spirit, not by the written code.

Rom 2:26 states that “if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?” However, both righteousness and circumcision are irrelevant to salvation. What is key is faith in and surrender to Jesus. Also, if you continue reading to Romans 3, it makes evident that our righteousness is of no avail, because we are all sinners:

Rom 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
Rom 3:10 As it is written: "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS; THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS AFTER GOD.
Rom 3:12 THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE; THEY HAVE TOGETHER BECOME UNPROFITABLE; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, NO, NOT ONE."
…
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

 

[Link1983]

Link1983 wrote:

“Find your Bible and turn to the book of Romans chapter two.
It talks about those on earth having heard.
And those who have not heard about the Word. (Law)”

I do not see the relevance of Romans 2 to my question or to Jaybird’s comment. Romans 2 does not discuss the damnation of those who never hear of Jesus. Rather, it discusses those who judge others for doing the same things that they do and it states that what is key is not whether a person is a Jew or is outwardly circumcised, but whether a person obeys the law and whether his heart has been circumcised by the Spirit, not by the written code.

Rom 2:26 states that “if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?” However, both righteousness and circumcision are irrelevant to salvation. What is key is faith in and surrender to Jesus. Also, if you continue reading to Romans 3, it makes evident that our righteousness is of no avail, because we are all sinners:

Rom 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
Rom 3:10 As it is written: "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS; THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS AFTER GOD.
Rom 3:12 THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE; THEY HAVE TOGETHER BECOME UNPROFITABLE; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, NO, NOT ONE."
…
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

We are saved by righteousness. But not only God can make us righteous through Christ.
Did you read the last part of the second chapter?...

 

[Link1983]

Link1983 wrote:

“Find your Bible and turn to the book of Romans chapter two.
It talks about those on earth having heard.
And those who have not heard about the Word. (Law)”

I do not see the relevance of Romans 2 to my question or to Jaybird’s comment. Romans 2 does not discuss the damnation of those who never hear of Jesus. Rather, it discusses those who judge others for doing the same things that they do and it states that what is key is not whether a person is a Jew or is outwardly circumcised, but whether a person obeys the law and whether his heart has been circumcised by the Spirit, not by the written code.

Rom 2:26 states that “if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?” However, both righteousness and circumcision are irrelevant to salvation. What is key is faith in and surrender to Jesus. Also, if you continue reading to Romans 3, it makes evident that our righteousness is of no avail, because we are all sinners:

Rom 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
Rom 3:10 As it is written: "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE;
Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS; THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS AFTER GOD.
Rom 3:12 THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE; THEY HAVE TOGETHER BECOME UNPROFITABLE; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, NO, NOT ONE."
…
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

The chapters you refer to also answers the question.
Those who have accepted Jesus without ever having heard about Him.
They are saved by God's righteousness and grace through faith without having heard.

No one before Jesus was born could be saved by the name.
Still they are saved by faith.
Thereby fulfilling the commandments.

 

[jmt356]

Everyone deserves hell. Jesus didn't have to come and die.

Could it be those who lived and never heard of Jesus were not of the elect and got the punishment they deserved?

I believe you are referring to the Calvinist doctrine of unconditional election, which is an aspect of predestination. As I understand it, this doctrine holds that all people deserve eternal punishment, but God "elects," or chooses, some people to be saved. I do not know whether unconditional election is a true doctrine, but if it is, it would seem to be even less fair than the idea that people are saved through their choice to believe in and submit to Christ. At least with this latter idea, people can play some role in their salvation (though I still believe it is unfair that those who never heard of Christ receive eternal punishment), whereas with unconditional election, those not "elected" have no chance at salvation. Also, the idea of predestination to me defeats the whole idea of obeying the Great Commission. Why go out and make disciples of all nations (Mat 28:19) when God has already chosen who will be saved and who will not be saved? Also, predestination seems contrary to the idea of a just God; it would mean that God created the world knowing that Adam and Eve would rebel against Him and thereby bring sin, death and suffering into the world.

I am expressing these thoughts without having thoroughly researched the doctrine of unconditional election.

 

[jmt356]

Do you think Job, or Abraham knew Jesus?

I do not believe Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Job knew Jesus, the man, the Son of God. They had a relationship with God, the Godhead, which Jesus, as a member of the Trinity, is a part of, but they did not knew Jesus personally because He had not yet come.

 

[JLB]

I do not believe Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Job knew Jesus, the man, the Son of God. They had a relationship with God, the Godhead, which Jesus, as a member of the Trinity, is a part of, but they did not knew Jesus personally because He had not yet come.

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.”
Genesis 17:1-2


It really doesn’t get anymore personal than covenant
relationship.


Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, and said, “My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant.” They said, “Do as you have said.”
Genesis 18:1-5


Here is the testimony of the Lord about Abraham —

Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.
Genesis 26:5


“But you, Israel, are My servant,
Jacob whom I have chosen,
The descendants of Abraham My friend.
Isaiah 41:8



Abraham walked with the Lord in relationship with Him, just as we are called to, today.

Abraham knew the Lord Jesus.

Abraham is His friend.



JLB

 

[Link1983]

Then why does the bible speak of some people being tossed into the lake of fire?

Because they rejected God, and did not want to believe.

 

[jmt356]

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

From the time of Adam and Eve God's word has always been known, but yet many choose to ignore turning a deaf ear to what God's Prophets in the OT and Jesus and His Apostles taught in the NT. Faith comes by hearing, but not everyone will receive. God's righteous judgement is fair as those who refuse to accept Him by faith have already brought damnation unto themselves.

.

for_his_glory cites Rom 10:13-15, which states:

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE Lord SHALL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent?

These verses make it clear that a person who has not heard of the Lord cannot believe in the Lord, and a person who does not believe in the Lord cannot call on the Lord. How then can a person call on the name of the Lord and be saved if they have not heard of the Lord?

For this reason, Paul calls Christians to preach the Gospel. Similarly, Jesus calls on believes to “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations” (Mat 28:19). To equip them for this task, Jesus promised his followers that He would give them the Holy Spirit to be witnesses to the “end of the earth” (Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth”).

Therefore, Christians have an enormous responsibility on their shoulders. They are to preach the Gospel to the “end of the earth,” for anyone who does not hear of the Lord cannot believed in and call on the Lord and be saved.

If anything, Romans 10 restates the doctrine that salvation comes through faith, and those who do not know of and believe in Jesus will not be saved. Therefore, those who die not knowing of Christ will not be saved.


for_his_glory wrote:

From the time of Adam and Eve God's word has always been known, but yet many choose to ignore turning a deaf ear to what God's Prophets in the OT and Jesus and His Apostles taught in the NT.

I disagree with this. There are many nations in both the OT and in the modern era that never heard what God’s prophets or what Jesus and His Apostles taught. Generally speaking, God sent prophets to only the Israelites. These prophets included Moses, Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea and Joel. For sure, God did enter into some covenants with non-Israelites, including Adam and Noah, and God even sometimes used non-Israelite prophets, such as Balaam, to speak through. However, most nations never heard God’s word in the pre-Christian era. Even today, in the Christian era, 2 billion people, which is more than a quarter of the world’s population, has never even heard of Jesus. So it is inaccurate to state that all people have always known God’s word and those who ignore His word have turned a deaf ear.

 

[for_his_glory]

for_his_glory cites Rom 10:13-15, which states:

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE Lord SHALL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent?

These verses make it clear that a person who has not heard of the Lord cannot believe in the Lord, and a person who does not believe in the Lord cannot call on the Lord. How then can a person call on the name of the Lord and be saved if they have not heard of the Lord?

For this reason, Paul calls Christians to preach the Gospel. Similarly, Jesus calls on believes to “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations” (Mat 28:19). To equip them for this task, Jesus promised his followers that He would give them the Holy Spirit to be witnesses to the “end of the earth” (Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth”).

Therefore, Christians have an enormous responsibility on their shoulders. They are to preach the Gospel to the “end of the earth,” for anyone who does not hear of the Lord cannot believed in and call on the Lord and be saved.

If anything, Romans 10 restates the doctrine that salvation comes through faith, and those who do not know of and believe in Jesus will not be saved. Therefore, those who die not knowing of Christ will not be saved.


for_his_glory wrote:

From the time of Adam and Eve God's word has always been known, but yet many choose to ignore turning a deaf ear to what God's Prophets in the OT and Jesus and His Apostles taught in the NT.

I disagree with this. There are many nations in both the OT and in the modern era that never heard what God’s prophets or what Jesus and His Apostles taught. Generally speaking, God sent prophets to only the Israelites. These prophets included Moses, Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea and Joel. For sure, God did enter into some covenants with non-Israelites, including Adam and Noah, and God even sometimes used non-Israelite prophets, such as Balaam, to speak through. However, most nations never heard God’s word in the pre-Christian era. Even today, in the Christian era, 2 billion people, which is more than a quarter of the world’s population, has never even heard of Jesus. So it is inaccurate to state that all people have always known God’s word and those who ignore His word have turned a deaf ear.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

God's wrath is revealed against everyone who suppresses His truth revealed through creation. The Bible denies that there are people who have never heard of God. Anyone no matter where they live can have access information about God and His Son Christ Jesus, but many choose to deny His existence out of ignorance and are without excuse.

Christians around the world are spreading the Gospel message of God and Christ Jesus so that those who have never heard have the opportunity to hear. We are all sinners saved by the grace of God, yet many refuse to hear as they turn a deaf ear to that which has already been given them.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

God is merciful in that He has provided a way of Salvation via Christ Jesus for those who will accept Him. But, God is also just in that unrepentance will not go unnoticed. God's spoken word has been since the beginning of creation and has been sent out into the world from the beginning, from generation to generation as no one is without excuse.

focusonthefamily.com What About Those Who Have Never Heard

 

[LovethroughDove]

Please read Matt 28:18-20 carefully. Is there a continuing need to send missionaries?

In regards to the End, I thought I heard there is only one small island left to tell about the gospel. A missionary tried to reach them a couple years ago and was killed. I could be totally wrong about who in the world has heard ?‍

Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."