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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Is it Possible for a True Christian to lose their Salvation.
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
Nobody said devils are human.
The tares are human... sons of the wicked one.
The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.
Matthew 13:38
Tares are human.
JLB
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The devil has children. They are not human children. They are devils.
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Yes and Jesus also said of Judas Iscariot - Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
John 6:70
Satan entered his heart.
Judas Iscariot was a man. The betrayal of Jesus Christ can "through him".
"Tares" is a reference to the people.
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! Matthew 13:36-43
JLB
Yes Satan entered him, because Satan was not already "in" him, and was not in his flesh.
This all took place before Paul's thorn in the flesh statement.
It's clear people can be possessed by the devil.
It's clear people can be deceived by the devil, and oppressed by the devil.
What you would have me to believe is God gave to Paul, a messenger of Satan to be in Paul's flesh.
You also say, this is true for all Christians.
You then conclude that the devil in peoples flesh is the one doing the sinning and not the person themselves, so it is the devil in the person's flesh that will be sentenced to hell, but the person will go to heaven, because it weasn't them doing the sinning, but the demon in their flesh.
Then you misquote 1 John 3:8 and say sin is of the devil, which in your mind makes all this "theory" of yours true.
JLB
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Satan entered Judas for specific judgment of SATAN in that action of Judas. Doesn't mean Judas had no sin indwelling his flesh like everyone else or that his sin wasn't demonic/of the devil. 1 John 3:8.
And tempted internally and provided lusts and deceived. The notion that such entry is equated to some Hollywood version of possession is nonsense.
The devil is linked to every sin. And that is just as true with devilS. They are all of the same evil family. There is no getting around it.
Yeah, well we are making some progress. What I might suggest to you in this particular matter is that a blinded believer can still be saved, and Christ never left them---> because there are other parties besides just the person to view and engage in matters of JUDGMENTS.
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Everyone has sin dwelling in their flesh.
He who sins.... is of the devil.
The devil doesn't do the sinning.
No scripture teaches this.
The person themselves commits the sin. 1 John 3:8
The person themselves are responsible for cleansing themselves of being a vessel of dishonor, so that they themselves can become a vessel of honor.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21
JLB
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The problem is, 1 John 3:8 doesn't say sin is of the devil.
He who sins... is what 1 John 3:8 says.
He who sins... is of the devil.
Your statement is opposed to the truth.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21
The latter is a vessel of dishonor.
If anyone cleanses himself, from the latter, he will be a vessel of honor.
JLB
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Jesus shows us a principle in Mark 4:15. It's the beginning of an important dissection of the previous parable, but it is even more important as a dissection tool because this particular parable is used as the basis to understand all parables. We might even understand that Gods Words are a parable:
Luke 8:11
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
This same statement was made by the Word in the O.T.
Psalm 78
1 Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
The parable has very real components. These components have 3 very real entities. Mark 4:15 shows us who the entities in play in the parable are. They are:
Gods Word(s)
Man
Satan
In Mark 4:15 we can see that Satan resists The Word, even the law (Gods Word) and does so by SINNING in the person by theft of Word from their heart.
This is the basis of understanding. Paul uses this identical principle to show, when the Word was sown in him, how lusts transpired within him. The law is sown and in his mind Paul has concupiscent/lust thoughts, which are evil/defiling thoughts. This too is the resistance of Satan (or his own) operating in mind to RESIST Gods Word.
Paul calls this the "law" of sin. Sin indwelling the flesh resists the law, and causes evil/defiling thoughts to transpire. Thoughts are the origination of evil/defiling/sin. Matt. 5:28, Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23
No one is exempt from this activity. If a believer is honest with themselves they know this to be true. What most don't connect on is that this IS demonic activity, of Satan or his own who are against the law, operating IN MAN.
Believers who claim they have no sin are not in truth. 1 John 1:8. Have is a present tense condition of sin indwelling the flesh/evil present with us. Sin is demonic.
This is the reason Paul's entire Gospel did a 180 turn on legalism and works salvation, because it is impossible to justify the sin indwelling the flesh/evil present with us. It simply can't be done. Our salvation rests on the bed of Grace and Mercy from God in Christ. It has to be this way because of the presence of evil/sin indwelling.
Therefore, when a believer judges another believer for sin, they are judging themselves also, because they are no different on the basis of having sin indwelling their own flesh/evil present with them.
When we "judge" our own selves accurately, we would NEVER condemn another believer. We would look the PROPER direction to find judgments, and understand that their flesh, their GARDEN, has been overtaken by THORNS.
Paul was even given this thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to remind him how important this principle IS.
It's also the basis of how Paul derived he was the chief of sinners after salvation, because Paul understood that the messenger of Satan in his own flesh was in fact utterly evil and continually resisted Gods Word, primarily in the forms of temptations (Gal. 4:14) and lusts (Romans 7:7-13). Even more. When a believer sees this principle, they will be even more challenged, because we are their greater enemy. We are supposed to SEE them and judge THEM.
Can we judge the messenger of Satan as a sinner? Of course. 1 John 3:8 shows us that the devil (and his own) are in fact sinners. The tempter in anyone places the worst sinner there is in the mind to do so.
When we neglect to maintain proper judgment, we will be dragged ourselves further and further away into our adversaries, and they will NOT let go until the "believer" who is trying to damn other believers to hell recognizes what is really going on within themselves.
So I might say it's always close to last call to understand what is going on for anyone who falls into this TRAP.
We can not count sins against other believers and expect forgiveness from God for ourselves. God has promised the opposing condition will increase to believers who do so. And it's not to the believer, but the other parties who operate in that person's flesh will continue to have a field day with the believer, because they have a spiritually blinded person to toy with, internally.
When we see any believer taken with a fault, and yes, sin is a fault. Even unbelief is a sin. We are commanded to restore them. Not condemn them. And we do so in order NOT to fall into the condemnation of devil ourselves, in our own flesh/mind.
We have wily adversaries. Not only can they blind a believer, but they simultaneously drag us into it in condemnations.
Love the believers, even the fallen ones. Restore them. Point to their slavery to the devil in the flesh.
Give judgment where judgment is due, lest the wicked judge takes ever more hold in our own flesh.
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19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. Matthew 13:19
Where does the wicked one come from?
JLB
This is not what Paul teaches about the law of sin.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:22-23
Sin, the law of sin in his physical body, not Satan in his physical body, sin.
In his mind was the law of God, in which he delighted.
Paul said it was the sin, "in his members", warring against his mind.
JLB
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Paul was abundantly clear that his flesh still served the law of sin.
Indeed, as do I. Nevertheless the flesh, because it serves the law of sin, IS contrary to the Spirit, regardless. Gal. 5:17
Paul also tells us that we do not wrestle flesh, but principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world and spiritual wickedness in high places. That high place is in our own minds where the wrestling match transpires. Eph. 6:12
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8
Who caused the devil to sin, in the beginning?
He who sins.... is what 1 John 3:8 says.
"He" refers to the person who has the choice.
He who sins... is what 1 John 3;8 plainly says.
That is why you won't write it out but keep claiming that the devil is the one doing the sinning within the person's flesh.
He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning...
JLB
You said - Satan (or his own) operating in mind to RESIST Gods Word.
Your unbiblical theory, put all the blame on the devil, because the devil is the one doing the sinning within the person's flesh.
Place no responsibility on the person, to be accountable to God for their choices, whether to sin, or to do good.
Heresy!
It is this type of doctrine that has caused the Church to slip deeper and deeper into accepting a sinful lifestyle rather than holiness, without which, no one will see the Lord. Hebrews 12:14
Those who practice the works of the flesh, and live for the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13
JLB
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Sin is demonic. 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15.
Does Satan SIN in man when Satan STEALS the Word from their hearts?
YES! Why then do people miss the obvious? Same principle. They have had this fact STOLEN from within them by Satan.
Accounting without all the parties is horribly void and inaccurate.
Claiming sinlessness is the heresy. No one is "accountable" enough to make themselves sinless, period. And if we think our adversary is going to behave because of "our accountability" think again. It's not going to happen.
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God created ALL things, all powers, even invisible powers. Satan is an invisible entity with powers unseen.
God created the waster to destroy. That waster/destruction is upon our own flesh. It dies because of the presence of indwelling sin and evil present with us.
Isaiah 54:16
Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
We don't make choices for what the tempter does internally, in our flesh/mind. We can certainly be falsely led to excuse that working by the tempter as well.