Is it Possible for a True Christian to lose their Salvation.

[JLB]

Hey JLB. Doesn't look like you have responded to my last post. It referred to an earlier post of yours regarding Pharaoh and I'd like to understand what you were meaning by it. Thanks

I will re-post what I wrote to Reba.

At the judgement seat, Pharaoh stands before The Lord Jesus, and The Lord says to him:

I don't hold against you these transgressions for which I hardened your heart, even though I foresaw you would indeed not let my people go, when I sent my servant Moses to demonstrate my power before you.

I foresaw that you would have indeed let them go, after the frogs came up from the river, however I had to harden your heart to the point you would not let my people go even until I sent the plague to take all the firstborn sons in Egypt.

So now, because I hardened your heart, I can have mercy on you for the entire dealings I had with you and your nation.



Now... lets talk about the rest of your life....




22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Romans 9:22-24

This is a hypothetical situation I just wrote, and is my opinion.

I did add the scripture from Romans 9:22-24

I don't believe anyone will have eternal life life, outside of Christ.

However, I don't know who will or will not be outside of Christ in the end.


Thanks JLB

 

[Hospes]

JLB, you really have me concerned.

Before I decide your belief of the Fatherhood of God is heretical, can you explain if you see any uniqueness in how God is Jesus' father? When I write "uniqueness" I am trying to ask if you see God as father of Jesus in a different way than you see God as father of the various beings he has created, e.g. humans, angels, demons, etc.

Also, could you also explain if their is any uniqueness in how God is father of those who come to salvation through the work of Jesus?

In the past, you have ignored some of my questions and I just let it go. This time, It is critically important to address these. Not for my sake, but for yours; you seem very close to believing things totally outside of Christianity.

 

[JLB]

JLB, you really have me concerned.

Before I decide your belief of the Fatherhood of God is heretical, can you explain if you see any uniqueness in how God is Jesus' father? When I write "uniqueness" I am trying to ask if you see God as father of Jesus in a different way than you see God as father of the various beings he has created, e.g. humans, angels, demons, etc.

Also, could you also explain if their is any uniqueness in how God is father of those who come to salvation through the work of Jesus?

In the past, you have ignored some of my questions and I just let it go. This time, It is critically important to address these. Not for my sake, but for yours; you seem very close to believing things totally outside of Christianity.

I can assure you, that my belief in how God is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, is outside mainstream Christianity.

I hope this put's your concern to rest. Now you know for sure that my belief, about God the Father and His relationship, to Jesus Christ, is most certainly outside of "Christianity".

I am trying to ask if you see God as father of Jesus in a different way than you see God as father of the various beings

Yes, I see Jesus as un-created, and the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16

I see angels as sons of God, as they were created directly by God. Luke 20:35, Job 38:7

I see Adam as a son of God, as he was directly created by God. Luke 3:38

Those who are born again, have the right to become sons of God. For now we are sons of God by faith. John 1:12

Those who are worthy to attain to the age to come, and the resurrection, will have become sons of God in reality.

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36



JLB

 

[reba]

To say God is the Father of satan is creepy.. He is the Father of His only begotten Son Jesus.

 

[mutzrein]

I will re-post what I wrote to Reba.





This is a hypothetical situation I just wrote, and is my opinion.

I did add the scripture from Romans 9:22-24

I don't believe anyone will have eternal life life, outside of Christ.

However, I don't know who will or will not be outside of Christ in the end.


Thanks JLB

Thanks JLB. Yes, I appreciate it was a response to Reba. I came into the thread late, read it and while I hold a different opinion, wondered how it relates to the Op. What does Pharaoh have to do with the possibility of a Christian losing their salvation ... in your opinion? Thanks

 

[JLB]

Thanks JLB. Yes, I appreciate it was a response to Reba. I came into the thread late, read it and while I hold a different opinion, wondered how it relates to the Op. What does Pharaoh have to do with the possibility of a Christian losing their salvation ... in your opinion? Thanks

Do you believe Pharaoh was predestined to go to hell?


JLB

 

[JLB]

To say God is the Father of satan is creepy.. He is the Father of His only begotten Son Jesus.

Yes that's the point he was driving at.

God is the Father of Lucifer, as well as all the one third of the angels that were cast out with him.

God did not create Satan.

God created Lucifer, as the bearer of light.

He became the enemy [Satan] because he wanted to sit where Jesus is sitting today.

I hope you can see the difference.


JLB

 

[mutzrein]

Do you believe Pharaoh was predestined to go to hell?

JLB

No, if by 'hell', you are meaning a place of eternal punishment ... but probably for a different reason than you.

 

[smaller]

Yes that's the point he was driving at.

God is the Father of Lucifer, as well as all the one third of the angels that were cast out with him.

JLB

On that point we will have to continue to disagree.

Logic dictates this conclusion: IF God is the Father of DEVILS, THEN what is God? The answer to that is obvious and this can not be so. There is a also a very distinct "difference" between Eternal Spirits, whom Holy Angels are, and wicked evil "temporal/temporary" spirits that were made/created and are used by God, which will be destroyed when their purposes end.

God as The Father is only conveyed to people in the scriptures.

Not to any other created things. There is no scripture showing God to be The Father of "all creation" but the Creator.

God is the creator of "all things." And The Heavenly Father of PEOPLE only.

You will not find a single statement in the scriptures showing God to be The Father of devils, that much is certain.

God as The Father of "all things" is pantheism.

 

[Malachi]

God is the Father of Lucifer, as well as all the one third of the angels that were cast out with him.

God is NOT the Father of Lucifer. This statement has no support in Scripture. All angels (who are in reality "ministering spirits") are direct creations of God, therefore they are called "sons of God", not because God has "fathered" them. Adam is also called a "son of God" because he was a direct creation of God.

Conversely, all those who have been born again have been "born of God" (born from above, born of the Spirit) hence they are "children of God, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ". So God in DEFINITELY NOT the "Father" of Lucifer, who was the highest ranked angel before his fall.

As to "the only begotten Son of God" (the Lord Jesus Christ), "only begotten" is translated from the Greek monogenes, which means "uniquely begotten". Since the Word was always God (John 1:1), this speaks of a unique Father-Son relationship within the Godhead from eternity, and not a begetting as applicable to human beings. Many mistakenly believe that Jesus was begotten at His incarnation. That is incorrect. He was in the bosom of the Father from eternity (John 1:18).

 

[JLB]

Logic dictates this conclusion: IF God is the Father of DEVILS, THEN what is God?

Your logic seems to be in direct conflict with the scriptures.

You deceitfully changed the meaning and then applied it to my post, as if that is what I said.

I said God is the Father of all spirits.

Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? Hebrews 12:9

Lucifer is a spirit, an angel.

Therefore God is his Father, as angels are called sons of God. Luke 20:35-36

Lucifer rebelled, and became Satan the adversary.

• Jesus is the Lord God and creator.

• He created principalities and powers.

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 1 Colossians 1:16

• We are now in conflict with principalities and powers, as we fight against them, by the power of God.

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:12


Please answer these simple questions. If you don't know the answer, then please refer to this post, with the scriptures I have provided, for reference.

• Did the Lord create principalities and powers?
• Do we fight against principalities and powers?

JLB

 

[JLB]

God is NOT the Father of Lucifer. This statement has no support in Scripture. All angels (who are in reality "ministering spirits") are direct creations of God, therefore they are called "sons of God", not because God has "fathered" them.

I didn't say God "beget" or "fathered' angels.

I said God created angels, as He is the Father of spirits. Hebrews 12:9

• Jesus is the Lord God and creator.

• He created principalities and powers.

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 1 Colossians 1:16

• We are now in conflict with principalities and powers, as we fight against them, by the power of God.

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:12



JLB

 

[smaller]

Your logic seems to be in direct conflict with the scriptures.

You deceitfully changed the meaning and then applied it to my post, as if that is what I said.

I said God is the Father of all spirits.

Patently untrue. All spirits are NOT in the same class. There is a class of spirits that are temporal and were "created" to be utterly destroyed in the end. These are neither "sons" of God NOR is God their Father.

Your blanket imposition is a failure to differentiate.

 

[Deborah13]

Malachi
Post 70, :nod

Conversely, all those who have been born again have been "born of God" (born from above, born of the Spirit) hence they are "children of God, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ".

and sons by adoption

 

[JLB]

Patently untrue. All spirits are NOT in the same class. There is a class of spirits that are temporal and were "created" to be utterly destroyed in the end. These are neither "sons" of God NOR is God their Father.

Your blanket imposition is a failure to differentiate.

Until you actually have some scripture that pertains to this subject, then I will consider you post's as nothing more than 1000's of opinions that circulate around here.

• Jesus is the Lord God and creator.

• He created principalities and powers.

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 1 Colossians 1:16

• We are now in conflict with principalities and powers, as we fight against them, by the power of God.

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:12



JLB

 

[JLB]

Malachi
Post 70, :nod


and sons by adoption

and sons by creation...

the son of Enosh,the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. Luke 3:38

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. Genesis 2:7



JLB

 

[WIP]

Please remember to address the topic of the discussion. Our goal is not to prove others wrong, belittle each other, or make points against each other (this is pride you know). Rather we should demonstrate where the truth lies. This is best accomplished by pointing out the Scripture reference that supports what we post.

 

[Deborah13]

and sons by creation...

the son of Enosh,the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. Luke 3:38

This verse says Adam was the son of God, not Enoch or Seth. ?

 

[smaller]

Until you actually have some scripture that pertains to this subject, then I will consider you post's as nothing more than 1000's of opinions that circulate around here.

• Jesus is the Lord God and creator.

• He created principalities and powers.

16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 1 Colossians 1:16

• We are now in conflict with principalities and powers, as we fight against them, by the power of God.

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:12

JLB

I'm actually surprised you are even allowed to float that kind of position here quite frankly.

 

[JLB]

I'm actually surprised you are even allowed to float that kind of position here quite frankly.

Your opinion carries no weight.

You use no scripture, and reject those who use scripture.

This verse says Adam was the son of God, not Enoch or Seth. ?

Yes ma'am.

That is my point. Adam was created by God, and is called a son of God.

Likewise, angels who were created by God, are called sons of God.

"sons", in my post refers to angels, who are called sons of God, not Enoch or Seth.


JLB